9/25 Apollo AMPS 409, +3 363, +6 289, +9 355, PMPS 517

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John & Apollo

John & Apollo

Member Since 2011
Apollo's Condo

I just fed him Wellness Chicken and Herring and he ate about half of a 3oz can for his AM feeding thus far. He has been grazing during the night though as have all my cats. One thing I noticed in all the cats since I switched from dry. They don't touch the water bowl much. I have been adding lots of water to their food. Is that typical?
 
Re: 9/25 Apollo AMPS 409

it's not unusual especially when you're adding water to their food. my water bowls do nothing but collect dust around here. you just want to make sure there's always fresh water available.

so far, eating a half a can is good. happy to hear he's grazing through the night, too.

it would be good if you could at least get a +6 today. if you'd like to start collecting data so you can begin to learn about apollo cycles, you could get a +3, +6, and a +9.
 
Re: 9/25 Apollo AMPS 409

john, ok i just read the last part your condo from yesterday - too funny on the Pee Quest! now we know what you do on Saturday nights! :lol: which sadly enough, is basically what all of us do on Saturday nights! Great news on the negative ketones! well done! Looks like apollo is really responding to having the dry food gone and changing to lantus.

just fyi, you can add in your information from before you started on lantus, when you were using Humulin, if you have any test numbers, that is. it can be helpful to see the whole picture. if you don't know how to do that, just go to your first row, highlight it, then go to insert and add a row above.

you're doing great - there's so much to learn.
 
Re: 9/25 Apollo AMPS 409

Apollo, you are a very handsome guy but you just don't look that good in red. Yellow is much better and blue would be smashing. John, you are doing a great job! Just looking at the past few days, that's a good trend to lower numbers and eating better food. Have a great Sunday!
Liz
 
Re: 9/25 Apollo AMPS 409

Wow John, that 409 sure looks better than that +600 from just a few days ago! It sure feels good when things start coming together and this disease seems feasible and within your control....so with that, I am very happy for you this Sunday morning ;-) ;-)

Mine doesn't touch the water bowl either and like you, I add plenty to their food. It makes me wonder just how dehydrated my cats were before we made the switch.

We wish you an uneventful and relaxing day and congrats on the NO KETONES - truthfully...I was worried about that one and am so glad to read the report that my worries were unfounded!
 
Re: 9/25 Apollo AMPS 409

Welcome John and Apollo....we haven't stopped by before but I have been following your progress and I must say you are doing great. I'm rather new to this too....it does get easier :smile: . Apollo is showing nice results so far.

I really want to add that I am SO happy you were able to get the ketone test last night. I had been holding my breathe on that one for you because so many warning bells were going off when i would read your posts. With all you are dealing with, ketones added, would have been a massive amount more to handle.

Have a relaxing day, you have come a long way!
 
Re: 9/25 Apollo AMPS 409

julie1220 said:
just fyi, you can add in your information from before you started on lantus, when you were using Humulin, if you have any test numbers, that is. it can be helpful to see the whole picture. if you don't know how to do that, just go to your first row, highlight it, then go to insert and add a row above.
Click to expand...

Unfortunately I have no test numbers to provide for when he was on Humulin N. His progress was only checked through fructosamine tests every month or so.
 
Re: 9/25 Apollo AMPS 409, +3 363

I have another question. I have 3 cats that I have now switched to wet food only. Is it just me or is feeding wet MUCH more expensive then dry? I calculated roughly 6, 3oz cans per day for all my cats. Now lets take Fancy Feast Classic Chicken. Amazon sells that on prime for $12 for 24 cans. That would give me 4 days worth a food for all three. A month supply would be 7 x 24 packs = 28 days worth of food. That would end up costing $84 a month for food! Wow! That's expensive. We're not even talking about the Wellness versions which are even more expensive. My cats need to get jobs to help me pay for all this. :smile:

Are my calculations correct? Is it much more expensive to feed them wet vs dry?
 
Re: 9/25 Apollo AMPS 409, +3 363

Good Morning John! Glad to see the trend downward is still happening!

As far as food cost, I think people here will tell you how to make it affordable. I know you can buy Wellness in 12 oz cans that are quite a bit cheaper...you just have to find a lid to fit them which you can get at Centinella here in CA. I think of it this way...if none of your other cats get diabetes or any other illness because of proper nutrition...you will be saving $$$$ on vet bills. I wish people knew that to have a cat you have to feed and care for them properly and it would make people think twice as far as getting 'recreational' pets just for kicks. Oh, that last sentence is not for you...just a broad sweeping statement. I don't think anyone on this board thinks anything other than their cats as 'family'. On another note...my entire diet has changed because of this experience. We are what we eat as they say...and this has taught me that more than anything!!! Sorry for the preaching... oops... :lol:

Have a great day... don't forget... get out of the pink! ;-) ;-) ;-)
 
Re: 9/25 Apollo AMPS 409, +3 363

Oh I am completely ok with getting them only the wet food from this point forward, but I have to admit I was taken back by such a BIG cost difference. Guess it works the same way with people. Healthy food is usually more expensive then unhealthy processed food. Sad it is that way, but that's for another conversation.

Would you mind mentioning where you get your Wellness cheaper at? I am at the point of picking a food now and trying to find the most cost effective place to get it from. It appears for me to go with Wellness over Fancy Feast I would be looking at around double the price per month. There maybe cheaper places to buy, but from my quick check at a few major online sites I would be looking at the following costs:

Fancy Feast = $84 for a 28 day supply for 3 cats @ ~ 6oz a day.
Wellness = $166 for a 28 day supply for 3 cats @ ~ 6oz a day.

Does that sound pretty close to costs?
 
Re: 9/25 Apollo AMPS 409, +3 363

The reason I got Wellness was because my second healthy kitty Boo would not eat any wet food but wellness. I guess it is a very high quality food and my little Boo is a picky eater??? I tried all of the other suggested lower cost ones and I finally gave in to Boos expensive taste. Both of my kitties have to eat the same thing or there will be war :evil: :twisted: :evil: :lol: :lol: :lol:

I am sure you can Google Wellness or call your local pet shops and price compare. Again, I am sure others will bring their suggestions.

Good luck and GREAT job!
 
Re: 9/25 Apollo AMPS 409, +3 363

you're right - it is expensive. i used to cringe at buying the $50 bag of cat food for punkin at the vet's, but then it lasted for ages. months. i can always get the fancy feast at Petco 30 cans for $16.40 with a petco card, which is 68 cents/can. I can often get them at Winco for around 55 cents/can. for a while there were $1 off 24 cans coupons on every can. i hate coupons but i did use those.

Punkin eats 3 cans a day, Anya eats 2 - so for my 2 cats that's $2.75/day or $82.50/month if i get it at Winco.

I need to look at friskies and see what their low-carb options are. apparently the recent info is that the FF Turkey & Giblets is 7% carbs, and the Savory Salmon seems to always raise punkin's BG a little, so maybe it's been reformulated since the last Janet & Binky's list update as well. That leaves fish, which you aren't supposed to give male cats too often, chicken feast and beef feast. and Dr Lisa's site had recommended to stick with poultry. not exactly a lot of variety.

although . . . to put it in perspective, last summer i had 3/4 of my young adult kids (18-24) living at home and the boyfriend of the eldest, who was also 24, here for a month and i spent $100 basically every few days when i went to buy groceries. Is it terrible to say i'd rather feed the cats? :lol: love my kids but was ready for them to move along!!!!
 
Re: 9/25 Apollo AMPS 409, +3 363

The bigger cans are typically much less cheaper than the 3 oz cans. PetFood Direct has prices as follows:

  • 12 (a case) Wellness 12.5 oz cans - reg. $30.49 (sale price $26.49) or 20 cents per ounce
  • 24 (a case) Wellness 5.5 oz cans - reg. $39.99 (sale price $34.99) or or 27 cents per ounce
  • 24 (a case) Wellness 3 oz cans - reg. 30.49 (sale price $26.49) or 42 cents per ounce
  • 24 (a case) Fancy Feast 3 oz cans - reg. $18.99 (sale price $13.79) or 26 cents per ounce
  • 24 (a case) Friskies 13 oz cans - reg. $28.99 (sale price $27.49) or 9 cents per ounce
  • 24 (a case) Friskies 5.5 oz cans - reg. $16.99 (sale price $11.89) or 13 cents per ounce
So, it looks like Wellness in the 12.5 oz cans is less expensive than Fancy Feast. (I didn't use the sale prices.) Wellness in the 5.5 oz cans is about the same price as Fancy Feast. Friskies is the least expensive.

If you order from places like PetFood Direct, they have frequent sales and if you use an auto-ship, there's a standard 15% discount. It probably is a break even since you pay for shipping.
 
Re: 9/25 Apollo AMPS 409, +3 363

Sienne, thanks so much for your calculations. So it does look like they can have the Wellness after all. I think I am going to buy a few more individual cans for all 3 to eat for a bit before committing to a large quantity purchase.
 
Re: 9/25 Apollo AMPS 409, +3 363

If you click on my link above, pick a flavor, and then hit 'compare prices' you can get the best deal for each flavor. ;-)
 
Re: 9/25 Apollo AMPS 409, +3 363, +6 289

Nice +6, Apollo is looking great ing yellow. Now to aim for the blues!

The larger cans definitely make things more affordable. It is really the cost of packaging. Check local petfood stores too. They will often give a discount for full case purchases. With 3 cats the larger cans are the way to go, I just got a case of Wellness Turkey at a local shop for about $28 including tax and I'm supporting a local business. But you are right, make sure they will continue to eat it first! :lol:
 
Re: 9/25 Apollo AMPS 409, +3 363, +6 289

Glad to see the progress Apollo is making. It will continue, I'm sure.

After adding it all up, I spend about $100 a month on Morgaine. She is picky and she has to eat a lower fat diet so she gets Pro Plan Turkey and Giblets with some FF rosated chicken and then she loves those FF appetizers as a no carb snack. Add the Pure bite chicken treats and she's all set. I think people tend to avoid the wet food for several reasons until their cats get sick from it. Cost is probably the main reason and then convenience.

Here's hoping that Apollo continues the trend downward.
 
Re: 9/25 Apollo AMPS 409, +3 363, +6 289, +9 355

Just completed the mini curve for AMPS, +3, +6, +9. Was wondering if I should give him an increase tonight or keep at 2 units/twice a day? If it would be best to wait longer that's fine too, just want to do what's best.

The blood tests are getting a "little" easier (mostly due to the Purebite Treats). The toughest part is the prick part. I tried a few times over the past couple of days to use the one touch delica device, but I never seem to be able to get a good prick in and if I do it's so small I can't get that much blood. I have adjusted the depth and everything, but no luck. He definitely feels the prick in his ear. Poor guy has some bruises on his ears even though I kept pressure and put neosporin on him. I have been doing it carefully by hand, but no matter how gentle I am it seems to make him flinch and jerk quite a bit. Any suggestions there? Now his insulin injections on the other hand he could care less. Maybe another lancet device or something?
 
Re: 9/25 Apollo AMPS 409, +3 363, +6 289, +9 355, dose?

Morgaine flinches too and I use 29 gauge lancets. I also use an old lancet pen that I have had for years, I have both and the older ones work better, IMO. I am not sure if they are still available. They look like a fat pen. The lovely folks here suggested I make a rice sock and warm it up in the microwave. not sure if you have tried that but it makes the blood fill the vein. When I haver my own blood work done, the lab warms my veins in a similar way. You put some uncooked rice in a baby sock and tie the sock to make a ball of rice. Then be careful it is not too hot. I make it warm not hot, about 12 seconds in my microwave, and apply it to Morgaine's ear for several seconds. Morgaine bruised at first but it has gotten easier to get the blood and the bruising is less troublesome. I do think they get used to it and it becomes a part of the routine. Morgaine also gets Pure Bites or a meal after each test.
 
Re: 9/25 Apollo AMPS 409, +3 363, +6 289, +9 355

John & Apollo said:
Just completed the mini curve for AMPS, +3, +6, +9. Was wondering if I should give him an increase tonight or keep at 2 units/twice a day? If it would be best to wait longer that's fine too, just want to do what's best.
Click to expand...

john, my suggestion is to take him up to 2.5u tonight. i'd really like to see those numbers come down further. there's plenty of wiggle room for an increase. you'll want to make sure you stay on top of his numbers.

here's a typical lantus curve, but every cat is different (ECID):

+0 - PreShot number.
+1 - Usually higher than PreShot number because of the last shot wearing off. May see a food spike in this number.
+2 - Often similar to the PreShot number.
+3 - Lower than the PreShot number, onset has started.
+4 - Lower.
+5 - Lower.
+6 - Nadir/Peak (the lowest number of cycle).
+7 - Surf (hang around the nadir number).
+8 - Slight rise.
+9 - Slight rise.
+10 - Rising.
+11 - Rising (may dip around +10 or +11).
+12 - PreShot number.

if the +2 is lower than the preshot number, there's a real good chance you'll see some action... further testing will be required until you can get a handle on where he's going. we ask everyone to at least get a before bed spot check every night. they're often clues as to whether you have to get up to check his numbers again.

you'll also want to continue testing for ketones whenever you can. he's not yet out of the obvious "danger zone" for developing ketones. although ketones *can* develop when kitty is in lower numbers, too.

The blood tests are getting a "little" easier (mostly due to the Purebite Treats). The toughest part is the prick part. I tried a few times over the past couple of days to use the one touch delica device, but I never seem to be able to get a good prick in and if I do it's so small I can't get that much blood. I have adjusted the depth and everything, but no luck. He definitely feels the prick in his ear. Poor guy has some bruises on his ears even though I kept pressure and put neosporin on him. I have been doing it carefully by hand, but no matter how gentle I am it seems to make him flinch and jerk quite a bit. Any suggestions there? Now his insulin injections on the other hand he could care less. Maybe another lancet device or something?
Click to expand...

when i teach people how to hometest, one of the most common problems they experience is having trouble with the lancet device. you have to exert some pressure while sticking him. if apollo will let you, after you prick him with the lancet device you can use the device to put a little more pressure on the ear. this little trick will help blood bead up on the ear... plenty enough to get a reading.

25 or 28 gauge lancets also help until the ears "learn" to bleed".

hope this helps...
 
I was a little bummed to see the PMPS 517. Why would it go back up that high when I haven't changed anything in the last few days?

Another question for everyone. My wife and I were talking about making plans for a trip home to see my mom (2 hours away) and maybe a trip to see her family over Thanksgiving (9 hours away). We started to think how are we going to do that with Apollo's special needs and all of our cats now on wet food. We don't have any family living town. Could we board him? Would they do all the blood testing and insulin injections Apollo needs, etc? Then we thought maybe we could have one of the technicians from our Vet clinic come by to feed and take care of Apollo's needs. I don't want to skip his insulin, or put down dry food for when we can't be home, or have someone give him his insulin without first checking his blood levels. How does everyone handle situations like these? Any advice. Thanks.
 
From what you've said about Apollo's numbers previously and what his SS looks like, he's not used to spending time in yellow numbers. If you look at the pattern from last night, Apollo tested at 276 and then bounce to a red pre-shot this morning. Today, he dropped from 409 to 289. Cats BG numbers can bounce either from dropping into low number or a fast drop. It's looking like Apollo's liver decided that this was the evening for a bounce. When this happens, the liver releases a stored form of glucose along with counterregulatory hormones which causes BG levels to spike. It can take up to 72 hours for a bounce to clear.
 
Hey John! We have found vet techs on care.com that we have house sit while we are gone. They can test and shoot and then they are also there in case something unusual happens.

Good luck with the increase!

Have a great night!
 
Hi John, it looks like you and Apollo are doing some good here. The high numbers are discouraging but don't despair, the lower numbers will come.

You were wondering about food prices. You can feed your cats Friskies Pates, 9Lives, or Special Kitty. The Pates, 9Lives and Special Kitty all come in the bigger cans and are way cheaper than Ff or Wellness. Did you check out the different foods on Janet and Binky's charts? They list the carbs on each flavor. I feed the civvies Friskies and Sam gets FF.
 
We've hired the vet tech that works for our vet and she could test and shoot with no problem. Better than us! We did have appetite issues then and he probably needed more chasing after than the vet tech was able to do. Some people also give a slightly lower dose while away so they don't have to worry about kitty going hypo.
Liz
 
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