9/24, Susie, 212 AMPS, 167 @+2, 120 @+3

Summer and Susie (GA)

Summer and Susie (GA)

Member Since 2020
https://felinediabetes.com/FDMB/threads/9-23-susie-254-amps-266-2-215-3.253347/#post-2857387

Good morning, everyone. Susie just had her lowest AMPS in a week so maybe we will see blue - maybe she will go up instead :eek:

Will be doing some research today on the best low-carb dry food to have on hand if I ever have to deal with Susie not eating again. It will only be used as a last resort. If anyone has suggestions please let me know. Also, I am conflicted about grain-free food. Is it really better for cats? I have heard otherwise.

Fingers crossed and prayers being said for a good lab/urinalysis report today.
 
Heather82372 said:
That might be an older post too. The lowest carb dry kibble I know currently is Wysong Epigen 90. Young Again Zero Mature is the next closest I believe followed by Dr. Elsey's. Don't completely quote me. I have the info here somewhere if you want me to look for you.
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I would appreciate it if you could send it to me if you can find it. Thanks, Heather.
 
Pamela & Amethyst said:
I put Advanced Plaque and Tartar DENTAL FRESH Water Additive in Amethyst and JoJos water every day DR. Pickering recommended it for both of them. Amethyst woukd not be a safe candidate for a Dental neither would JoJo Nor could I afford it Dr. Pickering checks their teeth everytime she is here and so far this has worked great It is colorless and tasteless:cat::cat::bighug::bighug::bighug::bighug:
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Thanks, Pamela. Problem I have is that I rarely see Susie drinking water. I saw her drink water from the dogs water bowl once last week and that was the first time in months I have seen her drink water. I might get it and add it to her own, little personal water bowl she has next to her food. I just don't know if she ever drinks out of it. Always seems full.
 
Summer and Susie said:
I would appreciate it if you could send it to me if you can find it. Thanks, Heather.
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Dry Matter Analysis/Dry Weight Kibble -
Wysong Epigen 90 - Protein 63%, Fat 16%, Fiber 3%, Carb 5.5%, Sodium .6%, Phos 1.5% (381mg)
Young Again Zero Mature - Protein 58.9%, Fat 26.6%, Fiber 3.3%, Carb (digestible) Trace, Sodium .31%, Phos .5% (110mg)
Dr. Elsey's Chicken - Protein 63.45%, Fat 19.88%, Fiber .42%, Carbs 4.32%, Sodium .59%, Phos .90%
 
Heather82372 said:
Dry Matter Analysis/Dry Weight Kibble -
Wysong Epigen 90 - Protein 63%, Fat 16%, Fiber 3%, Carb 5.5%, Sodium .6%, Phos 1.5% (381mg)
Young Again Zero Mature - Protein 58.9%, Fat 26.6%, Fiber 3.3%, Carb (digestible) Trace, Sodium .31%, Phos .5% (110mg)
Dr. Elsey's Chicken - Protein 63.45%, Fat 19.88%, Fiber .42%, Carbs 4.32%, Sodium .59%, Phos .90%
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Thank you so much, Heather. That was a lot of work for you. I read something interesting that @Suzanne & Darcy sent me regarding Proteinuria. One of the causes is a high-protein diet. I wonder what is considered high-protein? DOES ANYONE HAVE A COMMENT ON THIS?
 
Summer and Susie said:
https://felinediabetes.com/FDMB/threads/9-23-susie-254-amps-266-2-215-3.253347/#post-2857387

Good morning, everyone. Susie just had her lowest AMPS in a week so maybe we will see blue - maybe she will go up instead :eek:

Will be doing some research today on the best low-carb dry food to have on hand if I ever have to deal with Susie not eating again. It will only be used as a last resort. If anyone has suggestions please let me know. Also, I am conflicted about grain-free food. Is it really better for cats? I have heard otherwise.

Fingers crossed and prayers being said for a good lab/urinalysis report today.
Click to expand...
Dr. Elsey’s Clean Protein Chicken kibble is reportedly under 6%, comes in 2.2 lb package and can be ordered from Chewy.com. @Bandit's Mom wrote about it in one of my convos recently. I’m currently feeding the Salmon kibble only because the chicken wasn’t available in the 2.2 lb size when I ordered. I think it is now available and have it saved in my auto order which ships in a few weeks.
 
Bama Kitty Mom said:
Dr. Elsey’s Clean Protein Chicken kibble is reportedly under 6%, comes in 2.2 lb package and can be ordered from Chewy.com. @Bandit's Mom wrote about it in one of my convos recently. I’m currently feeding the Salmon kibble only because the chicken wasn’t available in the 2.2 lb size when I ordered. I think it is now available and have it saved in my auto order which ships in a few weeks.
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Thanks, Gina. I have made a note of that.
 
carfurby said:
I hope you get good results back today. Nice numbers so far. I hope Susie surfs safely.
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Just got a call from the vet. He is emailing me the labs. There was, again, protein in the urine and the specific gravity had gone up to 1066. She also had glucose in her urine. I will weigh all the other results and decide if I should spend $151 on the UPC.
 
Vet called and he will be emailing me Susie's labs. More protein in the urine. Specific Gravity had gone up to 1066 and there was glucose, again, in her urine. I am going to wait to see how all the other lab results pan out before I consider the UPC (Ratio Panel). I know Adrienne has had this done. If anyone else has please let me know. I don't want to spend the money if the results will not be specific to a particular problem.
 
Summer and Susie said:
https://felinediabetes.com/FDMB/threads/9-23-susie-254-amps-266-2-215-3.253347/#post-2857387

Good morning, everyone. Susie just had her lowest AMPS in a week so maybe we will see blue - maybe she will go up instead :eek:

Will be doing some research today on the best low-carb dry food to have on hand if I ever have to deal with Susie not eating again. It will only be used as a last resort. If anyone has suggestions please let me know. Also, I am conflicted about grain-free food. Is it really better for cats? I have heard otherwise.

Fingers crossed and prayers being said for a good lab/urinalysis report today.
Click to expand...
Here’s my take on grain-free food. Do cats in the wild eat grains? Do you see them hanging out in wheat fields or corn fields or rice paddies trying to eat the grain? No. You may see them out there looking for mice though! Grains are not a natural part of a cat’s prey diet. If they get a tiny proportion of grain it would be from when they eat the stomach contents of the mouse or bird or rabbit that they catch (yuk, sorry). So I do purchase grain-free food for my cats. Now, having said that, a lot of the food that is supposed to be grain-free substitutes other fillers that are not grains … commonly you will see peas in there. This allows them to use less meat and bumps up the protein (even though vegetable protein is not really the best for cats.)
 
Summer and Susie said:
https://felinediabetes.com/FDMB/threads/9-23-susie-254-amps-266-2-215-3.253347/#post-2857387

Good morning, everyone. Susie just had her lowest AMPS in a week so maybe we will see blue - maybe she will go up instead :eek:

Will be doing some research today on the best low-carb dry food to have on hand if I ever have to deal with Susie not eating again. It will only be used as a last resort. If anyone has suggestions please let me know. Also, I am conflicted about grain-free food. Is it really better for cats? I have heard otherwise.

Fingers crossed and prayers being said for a good lab/urinalysis report today.
Click to expand...
For low carb dry food that has a lot of meat protein, I buy Dr. Elsey’s Clean Protein. I only use it for treats for my cats, but they LOVE it. If I needed to get a cat to eat and this is all they would eat, I wouldn’t hesitate to feed it to them. I will note however that on occasion when I haven’t had any canned food to feed and have given it to my cats as a meal … they are at the water bowl all day drinking a ton. Dry food is dehydrating. Otherwise they normally don’t drink that much water because they get it with their food.
 
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Summer and Susie said:
Vet called and he will be emailing me Susie's labs. More protein in the urine. Specific Gravity had gone up to 1066 and there was glucose, again, in her urine. I am going to wait to see how all the other lab results pan out before I consider the UPC (Ratio Panel). I know Adrienne has had this done. If anyone else has please let me know. I don't want to spend the money if the results will not be specific to a particular problem.
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First, what were the vet’s comments on Susie’s labs? His/her professional opinion on this is what you are paying for.
 
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Summer and Susie said:
Thank you so much, Heather. That was a lot of work for you. I read something interesting that @Suzanne & Darcy sent me regarding Proteinuria. One of the causes is a high-protein diet. I wonder what is considered high-protein? DOES ANYONE HAVE A COMMENT ON THIS?
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That’s a good question. Cats need a lot of protein! We people with diabetic cats mostly try to feed low carb foods, which means that the foods have more protein and more fat. So, I wonder what would be considered high protein? Some people find their diabetic cats do better with a little bit more carbs, right? Like closer to 10%. We’ve had quite a few discussions on this on the Board. Thoughts anyone?
 
Suzanne & Darcy said:
First, what were the vet’s comments on Susie’s labs? His/her professional opinion on this is what you are paying for.
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This vet, not the same one I saw yesterday, was pleased with the labs. There were only a few test that were out of range and some only slightly. He did seem concerned about the urinalysis and somewhat encouraged the UPC ratio panel. Strange thing is that the vet I spoke with today said I only need one urine sample to send for the UPC panel. The one I spoke to yesterday said I needed three days. I am going to go ahead and have the test done with only one sample - whenever I can get it from Susie. I just hope all the money I put in to this will lead me to a SPECIFIC cause of the protein/glucose in her urine.
 
Summer and Susie said:
Thanks for this information. Vet said I should be more concerned if specific gravity is low - not high. I will try to add more water to her food.
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Exactly! I would be worried if her USG was low! It’s an indication of diminished kidney function. A tiny bit high like this doesn’t really concern me. I would do as you say and add some water to her food. That’s all.
 
Summer and Susie said:
This vet, not the same one I saw yesterday, was pleased with the labs. There were only a few test that were out of range and some only slightly. He did seem concerned about the urinalysis and somewhat encouraged the UPC ratio panel. Strange thing is that the vet I spoke with today said I only need one urine sample to send for the UPC panel. The one I spoke to yesterday said I needed three days. I am going to go ahead and have the test done with only one sample - whenever I can get it from Susie. I just hope all the money I put in to this will lead me to a SPECIFIC cause of the protein/glucose in her urine.
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Are you sure you don’t want to save that money for the cataract surgery?
 
Summer and Susie said:
This vet, not the same one I saw yesterday, was pleased with the labs. There were only a few test that were out of range and some only slightly. He did seem concerned about the urinalysis and somewhat encouraged the UPC ratio panel. Strange thing is that the vet I spoke with today said I only need one urine sample to send for the UPC panel. The one I spoke to yesterday said I needed three days. I am going to go ahead and have the test done with only one sample - whenever I can get it from Susie. I just hope all the money I put in to this will lead me to a SPECIFIC cause of the protein/glucose in her urine.
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Well the glucose is obviously because of her diabetes, I believe.
 
Summer and Susie said:
This vet, not the same one I saw yesterday, was pleased with the labs. There were only a few test that were out of range and some only slightly. He did seem concerned about the urinalysis and somewhat encouraged the UPC ratio panel. Strange thing is that the vet I spoke with today said I only need one urine sample to send for the UPC panel. The one I spoke to yesterday said I needed three days. I am going to go ahead and have the test done with only one sample - whenever I can get it from Susie. I just hope all the money I put in to this will lead me to a SPECIFIC cause of the protein/glucose in her urine.
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The lab can run the UPC from the urine already there. My vet never ordered 3. I would have the add on test done. A +3 would concern me given that she’s had this before.


The glucose in the urine is from her being diabetic. She was not under renal threshold when she was tested. Once Max was tightly controlled he never had glucose in his urine. Had she been tested when her glucose was in normal range it would not have glucose in her urine. That could also raise the USG a bit I would think. Better high than low. Her kidneys are concentrating her urine.

Her bp was fine, especially when you factor in it was done at the vet with stress added.

That’s is my take but I am not a vet or tech. Other than the protein those are good labs in my opinion.
 
Summer and Susie said:
I will make both of them work if I have to. I just don't want to spend the money on the UPC test if it is not going to answer specific questions. Like "Why does she have protein in her urine", "What is causing this" and "What can I do to make this better".
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Exactly. Maybe you can get more information about that from the vet... will it tell you what is the cause and if you can do anything to make it better.
 
And it could just be the diabetes. I read something from the Mayo Clinic that said diabetes can cause persistently elevated levels of protein in the urine. Also dehydration was mentioned (like we already talked about). So, combined with the slightly elevated USG... maybe it's just a little dehydration and just is caused by the diabetes. I wonder if you get her a little better regulated that the protein would go away?
 
Acadaca said:
I'm glad Susie's labs came back without any huge red flags. Sorry I can't help you out with whether or not she needs more tests. That's all way above my head. You're doing such a good job taking care of her though and she is lucky to have you.
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Thank you so much, Alisa. I am really frustrated and worried about her tonight. I thought she was getting better. Acted super hungry for over an hour before I could feed her and then just snubbed her favorite food until I put 4 Temptations in the bowl. Then, she ate a good portion but not all of it. I guess I will have to pull her out of TR with the dry kibble treats I am having to feed to get her to eat. Will follow up with the UPC test sometime this week. She is so skinny to me now. The vet is happy but it really bothers me.
 
tiffmaxee said:
The lab can run the UPC from the urine already there. My vet never ordered 3. I would have the add on test done. A +3 would concern me given that she’s had this before.


The glucose in the urine is from her being diabetic. She was not under renal threshold when she was tested. Once Max was tightly controlled he never had glucose in his urine. Had she been tested when her glucose was in normal range it would not have glucose in her urine. That could also raise the USG a bit I would think. Better high than low. Her kidneys are concentrating her urine.

Her bp was fine, especially when you factor in it was done at the vet with stress added.

That’s is my take but I am not a vet or tech. Other than the protein those are good labs in my opinion.
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I was just thinking that they should still have a sample of her urine that was collected at the lab -- to hold onto in case additional tests are ordered. I agree.
 
Suzanne & Darcy said:
I was just thinking that they should still have a sample of her urine that was collected at the lab -- to hold onto in case additional tests are ordered. I agree.
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They should. That same sample should be used. Where my cats’ labs are sent they ask if my vet wants to add on the test when he receives the report the next day.
 
tiffmaxee said:
The lab can run the UPC from the urine already there. My vet never ordered 3. I would have the add on test done. A +3 would concern me given that she’s had this before.


The glucose in the urine is from her being diabetic. She was not under renal threshold when she was tested. Once Max was tightly controlled he never had glucose in his urine. Had she been tested when her glucose was in normal range it would not have glucose in her urine. That could also raise the USG a bit I would think. Better high than low. Her kidneys are concentrating her urine.

Her bp was fine, especially when you factor in it was done at the vet with stress added.

That’s is my take but I am not a vet or tech. Other than the protein those are good labs in my opinion.
Click to expand...

Well, I am wondering why my vet would be asking for more urine to run the UPC if they, or the lab, still have some. Maybe money?

Susie had a +3 protein content in her urine on April 2nd. It has gone down to +2 with the last two lab reports.

I'm glad to hear you think her BP is okay. I wish she was eating better. I fed her her favorite food tonight and she didn't touch it until I put three Temptations in it. I'm going to have to find some low carb dry food and remove her from TR until I can get her straightened out. She has to eat and I don't care what it is or how high her glucose goes at this point.
 
Suzanne & Darcy said:
And it could just be the diabetes. I read something from the Mayo Clinic that said diabetes can cause persistently elevated levels of protein in the urine. Also dehydration was mentioned (like we already talked about). So, combined with the slightly elevated USG... maybe it's just a little dehydration and just is caused by the diabetes. I wonder if you get her a little better regulated that the protein would go away?
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Suzanne, I would love to have her better regulated. As soon as she is healthy and acting well and eating well I will certainly try to get her glucose down to better numbers. Right now, I am just afraid there is some other medical issue going on.

I remember when you were finally getting Mr. Darcy into some beautiful greens. And then, all hell broke out with the CKD, and it really turned your life, and your beautiful Darcy's life, upside down. I was so stunned that everything went downhill so quickly for him. It just broke my heart. I will never forget it. I will always feel badly for you and I will always be afraid that the same kind of thing could happen to Susie.
 
Summer since she has had +3 and now +2 I I would want the test run if my cat. We did it with a +1 or +2. Anything over a trace “might” need treatment. We don’t know without the test.
 
Summer and Susie said:
Well, I am wondering why my vet would be asking for more urine to run the UPC if they, or the lab, still have some. Maybe money?

Susie had a +3 protein content in her urine on April 2nd. It has gone down to +2 with the last two lab reports.

I'm glad to hear you think her BP is okay. I wish she was eating better. I fed her her favorite food tonight and she didn't touch it until I put three Temptations in it. I'm going to have to find some low carb dry food and remove her from TR until I can get her straightened out. She has to eat and I don't care what it is or how high her glucose goes at this point.
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Summer and Susie said:
Suzanne, I would love to have her better regulated. As soon as she is healthy and acting well and eating well I will certainly try to get her glucose down to better numbers. Right now, I am just afraid there is some other medical issue going on.

I remember when you were finally getting Mr. Darcy into some beautiful greens. And then, all hell broke out with the CKD, and it really turned your life, and your beautiful Darcy's life, upside down. I was so stunned that everything went downhill so quickly for him. It just broke my heart. I will never forget it. I will always feel badly for you and I will always be afraid that the same kind of thing could happen to Susie.
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And don't for a minute think that there was any criticism for you in the part about being better regulated! What I mean is WHEN you get her better regulated because you are very competent to do so! You do an amazing job with Susie who is an unpredictable and bouncy cat! You are winning the battle. This is a blip on the radar. I do not think that you are in a dangerous position with Susie health-wise. I think you may be worrying too much. The lack of appetite is worrying though -- but it seems to come and go... so I don't know what to think. Labs are not the be all and end all of everything -- but we try. I'm always happy when my cats labs are good... but I lost my Julius on January 4, 2021 and he had the most perfect labs (and had been having great labs regularly) ... but he had a mass in his lungs. So. We all need labs, but I don't always count on them 100% anymore. I put too much faith in them and now I am gun shy (of course, I'm still taking my cats for labs when needed... I'm not saying that... in fact, I don't know why I am rambling on. The Julius thing just really impacted me and I'm not over it. Then I lost Darcy six months later and I'm still really feeling it. But... I think that you have checked Susie over really well from a veterinary standpoint.
 
Here’s another good article. Like Suzanne said it could be uncontrolled diabetes.
https://wagwalking.com/cat/condition/excess-protein-urine#symptoms

It would be the easiest to treat. Looking at her ss she’s above 250 too often that could very well lead to sugar in the urine too often. Like Suzanne I am not critiquing but she might need more insulin to get her mostly under renal threshold. Feeding dry food will make that harder. Had she lost much weight when the vet weighed her?
 
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tiffmaxee said:
Here’s another good article. Like Suzanne said it could be uncontrolled diabetes.
https://wagwalking.com/cat/condition/excess-protein-urine#symptoms

It would be the easiest to treat. Looking at her ss she’s above 250 too often that could very well lead to sugar in the urine too often. Like Suzanne I am not critiquing but she might need more insulin to get her mostly under renal threshold. Feeding dry food will make that harder. Had she lost much weight when the vet weighed her?
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Psyche! I think that might be just the article I sent Summer yesterday (or maybe I only excerpted it!) I am not recommending that Summer feed Susie dry food. Summer just asked about which were low carb dry foods. Like I said, I don't even give my civvies dry food very often and most often it is little bits for treats.
 
Suzanne & Darcy said:
Psyche! I think that might be just the article I sent Summer yesterday (or maybe I only excerpted it!) I am not recommending that Summer feed Susie dry food. Summer just asked about which were low carb dry foods. Like I said, I don't even give my civvies dry food very often and most often it is little bits for treats.
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I know you didn’t suggest dry. Summer wrote she might switch to dry though. I think it might make the proteinuria worse.
 
tiffmaxee said:
Summer since she has had +3 and now +2 I I would want the test run if my cat. We did it with a +1 or +2. Anything over a trace “might” need treatment. We don’t know without the test.
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I know, Elise. The fact that she still doesn't have her appetite back is the driving factor for me and also that she had lost a lot of weight. My vet might be happy but I am not.
 
tiffmaxee said:
They should. That same sample should be used. Where my cats’ labs are sent they ask if my vet wants to add on the test when he receives the report the next day.
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Not in this instance. Not for the urinalysis. It is not mentioned at the bottom of the uninalysis that my vet can call in and have an additional test. It is just mentioned that the UPC should be done. Now, I am going to be really upset if my vet still has some of Susie's urine but is asking me to bring in more. I will never know. All I know, is that in my discussions today with the vet, and two techs, they told me I needed to bring in more urine. Maybe, it is all about more money.
 
Suzanne & Darcy said:
And don't for a minute think that there was any criticism for you in the part about being better regulated! What I mean is WHEN you get her better regulated because you are very competent to do so! You do an amazing job with Susie who is an unpredictable and bouncy cat! You are winning the battle. This is a blip on the radar. I do not think that you are in a dangerous position with Susie health-wise. I think you may be worrying too much. The lack of appetite is worrying though -- but it seems to come and go... so I don't know what to think. Labs are not the be all and end all of everything -- but we try. I'm always happy when my cats labs are good... but I lost my Julius on January 4, 2021 and he had the most perfect labs (and had been having great labs regularly) ... but he had a mass in his lungs. So. We all need labs, but I don't always count on them 100% anymore. I put too much faith in them and now I am gun shy (of course, I'm still taking my cats for labs when needed... I'm not saying that... in fact, I don't know why I am rambling on. The Julius thing just really impacted me and I'm not over it. Then I lost Darcy six months later and I'm still really feeling it. But... I think that you have checked Susie over really well from a veterinary standpoint.
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I'm so sorry about your Julius. I had no idea that you had lost a precious cat earlier in the year. Maybe, I should relax a little. Maybe I should just stop looking at labs. I would do that if it weren't for the fact that Susie is not eating well. This is a cat who was always hungry and full-figured. She acts hungry but can barely eat now. She is too skinny. I don't care that my vet thinks her loss of weight is good. I know, in my heart, that it is too much. I'm tired. I wish I could be a better Mom to Sus and figure out what is wrong. I guess that is why I feel compelled to have this one, last test done. The UPC ratio.
 
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