9/24 Kitty Boo AMPS 371 ???
- Thread starter emmabirch
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BJM
Member Since 2010
Re: 9/19 Kitty Boo PMPS 382...
OK, I've looked at the spreadsheet.
An important note about Levemir - the nadir may be later than +5 to +7. It can even happen at pre-shot. You might want to check a +9.
With the tiny dose you are giving, I'm wondering if a day or two off of the Levemir might let us see just how much he needs insulin. he may be bouncing because he doesn't need it. Its an idea; it could be wrong.
Have you been testing the urine for ketones and/or glucose?
And the 49 yesterday morning provoked the high numbers today; there's your bounce.
OK, I've looked at the spreadsheet.
An important note about Levemir - the nadir may be later than +5 to +7. It can even happen at pre-shot. You might want to check a +9.
With the tiny dose you are giving, I'm wondering if a day or two off of the Levemir might let us see just how much he needs insulin. he may be bouncing because he doesn't need it. Its an idea; it could be wrong.
Have you been testing the urine for ketones and/or glucose?
And the 49 yesterday morning provoked the high numbers today; there's your bounce.
BJM
Member Since 2010
Re: 9/19 Kitty Boo PMPS 382...
It may be helpful to learn drop dosing.
Drop method of dosing:
Practice by filling the syringe to the first non-zero mark using an easily visible liquid, such as coffee. Carefully squeeze out equal sized drops - you may find twisting the plunger helps - and repeat until you can get the same number of equal sized drops each time. Now, when you dose the insulin, you can discharge drops (into the sink) from the dose, based on your cat's response.
It may be helpful to learn drop dosing.
Drop method of dosing:
Practice by filling the syringe to the first non-zero mark using an easily visible liquid, such as coffee. Carefully squeeze out equal sized drops - you may find twisting the plunger helps - and repeat until you can get the same number of equal sized drops each time. Now, when you dose the insulin, you can discharge drops (into the sink) from the dose, based on your cat's response.
BJM
Member Since 2010
Re: 9/19 Kitty Boo PMPS 382...
It doesn't look likely for ketones, however it is good to check when you see high numbers. Ketones form as a by-product of fat breakdown for calories. Too ,maney ketones may indicate diabetic ketoacidosis, a potentially fatal, expensive to treat, complication of diabetes.
See my signature link Secondary monitoring Tools for some tips on testing urine, as well as some other assessments you may wish to make to evaluate your cat.
It doesn't look likely for ketones, however it is good to check when you see high numbers. Ketones form as a by-product of fat breakdown for calories. Too ,maney ketones may indicate diabetic ketoacidosis, a potentially fatal, expensive to treat, complication of diabetes.
See my signature link Secondary monitoring Tools for some tips on testing urine, as well as some other assessments you may wish to make to evaluate your cat.
MommaOfMuse
Member Since 2010
Re: 9/19 Kitty Boo PMPS 382...
Don't shoot unless he goes above 300 and then just a drop. Just what the plunger will draw in when it flexes back into place. But you might be looking at an OTJ trial really soon. Lev can be shot on an as need basis.
Mel and The Fur Gang
Don't shoot unless he goes above 300 and then just a drop. Just what the plunger will draw in when it flexes back into place. But you might be looking at an OTJ trial really soon. Lev can be shot on an as need basis.
Mel and The Fur Gang
emmabirch
Member Since 2014
Re: 9/19 Kitty Boo PMPS 382...
BJM you came to my house and met Kitty Boo. He is active and doing OK..it is just I get him down and don't know what to do..if I don't shoot him he continues to rise (Blood sugars) and if I shoot he bounces...and sometimes I don't shoot and he bounces..I am down to do on a smidgen....I call it .15 as it is only a small amount..but now he is staying up.
Emma
Just don't know of a schedule for him...if I feed him every 6 hours, he BS goes up..if I feed him every 12 it goes down but bounces..
Emma
BJM you came to my house and met Kitty Boo. He is active and doing OK..it is just I get him down and don't know what to do..if I don't shoot him he continues to rise (Blood sugars) and if I shoot he bounces...and sometimes I don't shoot and he bounces..I am down to do on a smidgen....I call it .15 as it is only a small amount..but now he is staying up.
Emma
Just don't know of a schedule for him...if I feed him every 6 hours, he BS goes up..if I feed him every 12 it goes down but bounces..
Emma
BJM
Member Since 2010
Re: 9/19 Kitty Boo PMPS 382...
I think part of the erratic numbers is because he may not need insulin, or not need much. You've made the changes to his diet and he has had insulin long enough that he's getting ready to go off the juice.
Mel just suggested above giving only a drop when he is over 300. You just "chase the numbers". That means that you wait until he's over 300, then give a drop.
Will he graze or does he eat it all at once? If he eats all at once, a timed feeder may work, like the Pet Safe 5 (its on Amazon - then price match at PetSmart).
I think part of the erratic numbers is because he may not need insulin, or not need much. You've made the changes to his diet and he has had insulin long enough that he's getting ready to go off the juice.
Mel just suggested above giving only a drop when he is over 300. You just "chase the numbers". That means that you wait until he's over 300, then give a drop.
Will he graze or does he eat it all at once? If he eats all at once, a timed feeder may work, like the Pet Safe 5 (its on Amazon - then price match at PetSmart).
MommaOfMuse
Member Since 2010
Re: 9/19 Kitty Boo PMPS 382...
Emma
Look at Autumn's spreadsheet I'm going through the same thing with her. You've gotta stop the swing to see where the dose truly is better. Its much easier to raise a dose if not enough than chase a bouncing ball down the scale. You need flat right now even if that's higher and flat.
Mel and The Fur Gang
Emma
Look at Autumn's spreadsheet I'm going through the same thing with her. You've gotta stop the swing to see where the dose truly is better. Its much easier to raise a dose if not enough than chase a bouncing ball down the scale. You need flat right now even if that's higher and flat.
Mel and The Fur Gang
MommaOfMuse
Member Since 2010
Re: 9/19 Kitty Boo PMPS 382...
You hide your syringes and STOP shooting for a few days. Give the Lev a chance to clear his system he could be bouncing off the insulin itself. If he flat lines even in the reds just let him go flat. As long as he's testing negative for ketones just test him but withhold insulin.
In fact now that Autumn is back to blues that's exactly what I'm doing with her. Tapping her down if she goes above 250 but otherwise leave her alone and give her pancreas a chance to show me what it can do on its own.
Mel and The Fur Gang
You hide your syringes and STOP shooting for a few days. Give the Lev a chance to clear his system he could be bouncing off the insulin itself. If he flat lines even in the reds just let him go flat. As long as he's testing negative for ketones just test him but withhold insulin.
In fact now that Autumn is back to blues that's exactly what I'm doing with her. Tapping her down if she goes above 250 but otherwise leave her alone and give her pancreas a chance to show me what it can do on its own.
Mel and The Fur Gang
MommaOfMuse
Member Since 2010
Re: 9/19 Kitty Boo PMPS 382...
Give him a good 3 days off let him clear the insulin out of his system. Shoot only if he goes over 300 to start until we know how low a drop takes him and to help clear the bounce
Mel and The Fur Gang
Give him a good 3 days off let him clear the insulin out of his system. Shoot only if he goes over 300 to start until we know how low a drop takes him and to help clear the bounce
Mel and The Fur Gang
KPassa
Member Since 2012
Re: 9/19 Kitty Boo PMPS 382...
Glad you found your way back here and into excellent hands. :thumbup
If you want to keep this same post tomorrow, you can change the subject to the current date and maybe something like "Dosing Questions" and keep posting on this same thread if that makes things easier for you. Then, if you have a change in topics or questions or if this thread gets overly long, you can just start a new one.
Glad you found your way back here and into excellent hands. :thumbup
If you want to keep this same post tomorrow, you can change the subject to the current date and maybe something like "Dosing Questions" and keep posting on this same thread if that makes things easier for you. Then, if you have a change in topics or questions or if this thread gets overly long, you can just start a new one.
BJM
Member Since 2010
Re: 9/19 Kitty Boo PMPS 382...
For 3 full days, give no insulin.
Test at AM and PM (AMBG and PMBG) and when possible, about 2 hours after fresh food is put down. (likely food spike)
Test for urine ketones (KetoStix, KetoDiaStix, or generic); if ketones, give 1 drop of Levemir
- Just what the plunger will draw in when it flexes back into place.
Feed mini-meals or allow Kitty Boo to graze.
Evaluate how the glucose is after 3 days.
For 3 full days, give no insulin.
Test at AM and PM (AMBG and PMBG) and when possible, about 2 hours after fresh food is put down. (likely food spike)
Test for urine ketones (KetoStix, KetoDiaStix, or generic); if ketones, give 1 drop of Levemir
- Just what the plunger will draw in when it flexes back into place.
Feed mini-meals or allow Kitty Boo to graze.
Evaluate how the glucose is after 3 days.
MommaOfMuse
Member Since 2010
Re: 9/19 Kitty Boo PMPS 382...
Ditto what BJM said. Tonight was fine because he's high enough but tomorrow especially if he's low stop shooting for 3 days. Don't worry if he goes even really high as long as he stays ketone free.
If you're unsure post here first we'll walk you through.
Mel and The Fur Gang
Ditto what BJM said. Tonight was fine because he's high enough but tomorrow especially if he's low stop shooting for 3 days. Don't worry if he goes even really high as long as he stays ketone free.
If you're unsure post here first we'll walk you through.
Mel and The Fur Gang
emmabirch
Member Since 2014
Re: 9/19 Kitty Boo PMPS 382...
Kitty Boo won't graze..he grubs. He will eat what I give him and even eat what Pumpkin will leave or he roots Pumpkin out and finished his if I don't watch him while he eats. Are you saying keep wet food down for him all day? Let him eat as much or as often as he wants and just monitor his blood sugar? With given nothing for 3 days and watch for ketones? Do I have that right?
Kitty Boo won't graze..he grubs. He will eat what I give him and even eat what Pumpkin will leave or he roots Pumpkin out and finished his if I don't watch him while he eats. Are you saying keep wet food down for him all day? Let him eat as much or as often as he wants and just monitor his blood sugar? With given nothing for 3 days and watch for ketones? Do I have that right?
emmabirch
Member Since 2014
Re: 9/19 Kitty Boo PMPS 382...3/20 continue dosing problems
Ok so this morning he was 331 and +6 1/2 he was 370. This is with no insulin. I am still using the same schedule for testing and eating. Since he likes that schedule and he comes to me and tells me it is time for testing and eating..LOL. But he is in the 300's.
Emma
Ok so this morning he was 331 and +6 1/2 he was 370. This is with no insulin. I am still using the same schedule for testing and eating. Since he likes that schedule and he comes to me and tells me it is time for testing and eating..LOL. But he is in the 300's.
Emma
BJM
Member Since 2010
Re: 9/19 Kitty Boo PMPS 382...
OK, great. Based on your previous tiny doses, plus what Mel suggested, I think that doing drops, plus chasing numbers is where you might go.
You might try Mel's trick - press the plunger down firmly, insert in insulin container, and release the plunger. This will draw up a tiny bit of insulin. If it is as low as you 0.15 doses, or lower, we'll see how that works.
Or, you might dry drop dosing as I explained previously.
Then, test around nadir to see how low he goes on just a tiny bit of Lev.
We'll plan more after that.
OK, great. Based on your previous tiny doses, plus what Mel suggested, I think that doing drops, plus chasing numbers is where you might go.
You might try Mel's trick - press the plunger down firmly, insert in insulin container, and release the plunger. This will draw up a tiny bit of insulin. If it is as low as you 0.15 doses, or lower, we'll see how that works.
Or, you might dry drop dosing as I explained previously.
Then, test around nadir to see how low he goes on just a tiny bit of Lev.
We'll plan more after that.
MommaOfMuse
Member Since 2010
Nice drop for just starting back on insulin and its an easy drop so shouldn't <anti-jinx> start him swinging again. That is exactly what we want to see a nice easy slide down and hopefully a nice easy slide back up at preshot.
Mel, and The Fur Gang
Mel, and The Fur Gang
:YMSIGH: :sad: :!:
MommaOfMuse
Member Since 2010
To be expected with the skip last night. He'll come back down again.
Mel and The Fur Gang
Mel and The Fur Gang
BJM
Member Since 2010
Not bad of you at all; completely reasonable, since you're restarting him.
Are you interested in learning to shoot at lower numbers? It is possible to give insulin when the pre-shot is below 150 mg/dL if there is mid-cycle test data to show it is safe.
The trade off is being quite vigilent in checking for low numbers and being ready to intervene with higher carb foods to steer the numbers and keep them safely above 50 mg/dL.
You would do this by slowly lowering your no shoot number a little at a time. Doing this gradually might reduce the wide swinging and get him down to more sustained lower glucose levels.
Are you interested in learning to shoot at lower numbers? It is possible to give insulin when the pre-shot is below 150 mg/dL if there is mid-cycle test data to show it is safe.
The trade off is being quite vigilent in checking for low numbers and being ready to intervene with higher carb foods to steer the numbers and keep them safely above 50 mg/dL.
You would do this by slowly lowering your no shoot number a little at a time. Doing this gradually might reduce the wide swinging and get him down to more sustained lower glucose levels.
MommaOfMuse
Member Since 2010
No its not bad, always better to err on the side of caution. It just explains the high morning preshot number is all.
Mel and The Fur Gang
Mel and The Fur Gang
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