9/24, Corduroy, +3=369, +4=394, +10=338, +11=356, PMPS=431

Status
Not open for further replies.
blove7

blove7

Member Since 2013
Hi all,

I was hoping that his #s would go down overnight, but they only continued to go up, from 232 at 6 p.m. to a whopping 497 this morning at 8:30 a.m. I feel like everything we've worked for is out the window :sad: And I feel responsible because this all started happening exactly after I ran that sweeper on Sunday. I mean, could a sweeper have gotten him so worked up that it raised his blood sugar permanently? I know this sounds nuts, but I'm beginning to wonder. I hate seeing his numbers go this sky-high. When should I start with the insulin again?

Yesterday's condo: viewtopic.php?f=9&t=105043
 
Re: 9/24, Corduroy, AMBG=497. When to start insulin again?

The higher # could be the result of the shed draining due to the skipped shots, along with the HC food that you fed, too. Hopefully someone will come by soon to answer your question. Sorry I couldn't help. :sad:
 
Re: 9/24, Corduroy, AMBG=497. When to start insulin again?

I would continue with insulin until you have a cycle that indicates not to give a drop. I think you had indicated that your last dose was about 2 drops. Do you think you can measure a single drop?
 
Re: 9/24, Corduroy, AMBG=497. When to start insulin again?

Hi Sienne,

The reason for the OTJ trial today is due to yesterday's crazy numbers. He went from 116 at AMPS, when we gave him .10 units, to 23 at +2, then to 20 and eventually down to "LO" on the meter. I had to give him HC food along with karo in order to raise it again (which was difficult for awhile I might add). The consensus yesterday and last night seemed to be that he was ready to go on his OTJ trial because he was telling me that he didn't need anymore insulin.

Our last dose was .10 units. I've never given a drop or two. I'm not sure how to go about doing that.
 
Re: 9/24, Corduroy, AMBG=497. When to start insulin again?

I remember the ordeal yesterday. Many times, we recommend not starting a trial until you get a green (or blue below 120) pre-shot.

What I would suggest is pushing very hard on the syringe plunger, inserting the needle into the Lantus, and letting go of the pressure, I'd expel the insulin on something that isn't absorbent so you can see what's there (or "dialing" it out of the syringe).
 
Re: 9/24, Corduroy, AMBG=497. When to start insulin again?

Okay, I can try that. What do you mean by dialing it out of the syringe? Should I do this now, at this late of a time in the morning? Sorry for so many questions :YMSIGH:
 
Re: 9/24, Corduroy, AMBG=497. When to start insulin again?

I think she meant to try the expelling technique at the next shot time. I'm not sure what she means by dialing it out, though. You don't ever want to give another dose during the cycle. Remember, Lantus is to be given every 12 hours. And since there hasn't been any insulin in Corduroy for at least 2 cycles (24 hours), it's going to take time to rebuild that shed again, so you may experience some bouncing because of it. Don't get too frustrated, and just continue to give the insulin regularly every 12 hours. His #s will soon get better as you continue to follow the protocol.
 
Re: 9/24, Corduroy, AMBG=497, +2=477. Dropping on his own??

I just did a +2 and it was 477, 20 points lower than his AMBG. Does this mean he's dropping on his own and that the high numbers are a result of not giving him insulin last night? With this said, do you think I should hold off on giving insulin?
 
Re: 9/24, Corduroy, AMBG=497. When to start insulin again?

I think she is referring to twisting the plunger.... it's how we count drops.

Use some wax paper or foil, and play with your syringes.... different syringes have a different number of drops
in a unit.... ( my own terumo's have 10 drops from 1 unit)
if I load a syringe to 1 unit, hold it with the needle straight up and twist the plunger slowly, a drop will bead up on the needle and then roll off, and so on....

You are trying to determine how much you need in your syringe to get down to that very last drop.
That's why you need the experiment.

And then when you figure that out, test it.... load a syringe and push the plunger to see what comes out.
That's why you need the foil or wax paper.
 
Re: 9/24, Corduroy, AMBG=497, +2=477. Dropping on his own??

I guess I feel like I'm getting conflicting information. Yesterday, it was the general consensus to not give him anymore insulin, but today, it seems that I should. I'm very confused.
 
Re: 9/24, Corduroy, AMBG=497, +2=477. Dropping on his own??

I think it's because just 4 days ago, and 2 days, there were blue pre-shot amps numbers ( that 140) and
to have the strongest remission, it's better to have all numbers under 120. You want to be between 50-120 all the time.

Sienne will be back on some time later today. She works.
 
Re: 9/24, Corduroy, AMBG=497, +2=477. Dropping on his own??

Brigitte, I think what the general consensus is trying to tell you is not to give any more insulin during the 12 hour cycle (ie. PS, and then another shot 1 hour later, or thereabouts). That wouldn't be a good thing to do. So, you want to make sure to give it ONLY every 12 hours. (example: 6:00 a.m. and again at 6:00 p.m.)

Hope that helps, and clarifies things better. :-D Hang in there :YMHUG:, and don't get too discouraged. You WILL get the hang of this. You both will.
 
Re: 9/24, Corduroy, AMBG=497, +2=477. Dropping on his own??

Hi Angela,

I understand not to give anymore insulin during a 12-hour period; that would be extremely dangerous. I haven't done that for a long time. I've been giving him insulin only every 12 hours. However, yesterday people that replied to my posts were saying that I should start my OTJ trial today. That's what I'm confused about. And now that it has gone down from 497 to 477, I'm wondering if it's going down on it's own.
 
Re: 9/24, Corduroy, AMBG=497, +2=477. Dropping on his own??

I'm not sure if his #s are going down on his own, or not. You could try doing another test at +4 and see what his # is, and go from there. As far as the amount of insulin is concerned, you may want to change your subject line to "dose question", or something to get more advice.

As Sienne mentioned, the OTJ trial is done when the #s are between 50-120 all the time from PS to PS in both cycles. That's what I'm working on right now with my own, but Blackie's no where near that yet, and am not sure if she'll ever get there. We simply continue on... Even after 3.5 years. :lol:
 
Re: 9/24, Corduroy, AMBG=497, +2=477. Dropping on his own??

Brigitte,
the consensus yesterday was to start the trial but Sienne is one of our most experienced here so we all defer
to her thoughts. She knows her stuff.

Go back to my post of counting drops....
see how many drops you were giving yesterday with the dose you gave.
That would help in knowing if you already were only giving one drop or two.
 
Re: 9/24, Corduroy, AMBG=497, +2=477. Dropping on his own??

Hi Brigitte,

I think that Corduroy is probably still working on clearing the bounce from yesterday's LO ....20's are really low, and if it's too low to even get a reading (the LO on the meter), he was probably even lower than 20's (so yes, his numbers should come down on their own as he "clears the bounce")

For now, don't worry about the high numbers. If he's still above 200 tonight at PMPS time, I'd go ahead and give him a drop of insulin. We don't want to rush the OTJ trial, but we need him in a strong remission too, so he may need a little more help with insulin a little longer. I MAY even give the .1 since his shed would have drained for 24 hours at that point, but please take the advice of more experienced eyes here

As they've said, push the plunger in as hard as you can, and then just release it. It will draw up a little. Then if you slowly "screw" the plunger in, you'll see the drop form on the needle.
This is what "some" insulin looks like
someinsulin-1.jpg


Corduroy has been higher than he is before, so don't let these high numbers worry you right now. It's always better to be too high, than too low
 
Re: 9/24, Corduroy, AMBG=497, +2=477. Dropping on his own??

My expectation yesterday was that Corduroy might bounce a bit from the low numbers and all of the carbs and he would maybe be in the mid 100s. So I am surprised to see the high 400s. He's not quite ready for an OTJ trial right now. It seems he needs a tiny bit of insulin. When he has a normal preshot BG, then you can start an OTJ trial. Does this make sense?
Liz
 
Re: 9/24, Corduroy, AMBG=497, +2=477. Dropping on his own??

I think I would put the test kit away until the normal PM shot time, and see if the bounce clears before deciding on giving a shot tonight. His last bounce cleared quickly.
 
Re: 9/24, Corduroy, AMBG=497, +2=477. Dropping on his own??

I just checked his BG level again at +3, and it's dropped to 369 (108 points lower than just an hour ago) :-D
This tells me that I should skip his AMPS and wait until tonight's PMBG to continue with insulin.

I sat down and experimented with the syringe. Here's what I found:

1. When I push the plunger all the way down, and then release it while in the pen (I have a Lantus pen), I can get two drops out of it, the first one being slightly bigger than the second one.
2. The amount I was giving him, .10 units, is waaay more than this!

Now I guess my question is: Do I use the first method that I mentioned, shooting out the first drop on a piece of paper and giving him the second, smaller drop, or should I give both drops? With what happened yesterday, I'm more along the lines of giving just one drop, but I'm not an expert ;-)
 
Re: 9/24, Corduroy, AMBG=497, +2=477, +3=369. DOSE QUESTION

Now this is just my opinion, and I'm sure not the expert, but if the 2 drops is WAY more than the .1 you were giving, I think I'd go with the 2 drops and this is why.

Corduroy's numbers have been good, but not great...there are still some in the 150+ range, so although it's obvious from yesterday that he was getting too much, I don't think he's quite ready to be OTJ

If 2 drops keeps him in the lower numbers (without going too low), you'd still have the option of dropping down to 1 drop later before trying the OTJ trial
 
Re: 9/24, Corduroy, AMBG=497, +2=477, +3=369. DOSE QUESTION

Chris and China,

I might not have been clear, but what I was saying is that the dose I was giving him, .10 units, was a lot more than when I experimented with pushing the plunger all the way down and then releasing. The .10 equals 4 1/2 drops and the method of pushing the plunger all the way down and releasing yielded 2 drops. With this said, I'm thinking that I may give him just one of those two drops tonight, depending on his BG level. Does that make sense? :smile:
 
Re: 9/24, Corduroy, AMBG=497, +2=477, +3=369. DOSE QUESTION

I'm so glad you experimented.
You found there are smaller doses than what you were giving so there is room to continue giving insulin support.
 
Re: 9/24, Corduroy, AMBG=497, +2=477, +3=369. DOSE QUESTION

Yes, that's what I said too Brigitte...that if the .1 that you were giving is a LOT more than the amount you're getting by just pushing the plunger and releasing, that it might be better to go down to 2 drops for awhile, see how he does, and leave yourself the option of going down further to 1 drop later.

If he's above 200 at PMPS time, I think I'd probably try the 2 drops, but again, let's see what more experienced eyes have to say :mrgreen:

Either way, you are doing great!!
 
Re: 9/24, Corduroy, AMBG=497, +2=477, +3=369. DOSE QUESTION

I'd still withhold insulin until you are sure the bounce has cleared. This can take two cycles or more. If it clears, and you see a number higher than "normal" after that, you can always experiment with drops.

The important thing, to me, is that it's called a "trial" for a good reason. Let it "fail" before concluding that it will or has.

Just my opinion. I used PZI, and the smallest dose I ever shot was .25u. Two years ago. Bob passed his trial.
 
Re: 9/24, Corduroy, AMBG=497, +2=477, +3=369, +4=394

Hi Chris & China and Carl & Bob,

Chris, I'm glad we're on the same page now :-D These last two days have been crazy!

Carl, at his PMBG time tonight, it will have been two cycles, meaning that I let him go through two whole cycles without giving him insulin. What is your opinion about what Chris said, that if it's above 200 to go ahead and give him two drops? This will be around 8 p.m.
 
Re: 9/24, Corduroy, AMBG=497, +2=477, +3=369, +4=394

I'd still withhold insulin until you are sure the bounce has cleared.
Click to expand...

Good point Carl!! That's another one of the reasons I love this message board!! As low as he went yesterday, it may take several more cycles before you know it's a "real" number and not influenced by the bounce.

Since you didn't give any insulin this morning, you could give Corduroy a break from testing until PMPS time Brigitte....at this point, additional testing probably isn't going to tell you too much..maybe get a +10 or +11 so when it is PMPS time, you can know if he's going up or continuing down
 
Re: 9/24, Corduroy, AMBG=497, +2=477, +3=369, +4=394. DOSE ?

Carl, at his PMBG time tonight, it will have been two cycles, meaning that I let him go through two whole cycles without giving him insulin. What is your opinion about what Chris said, that if it's above 200 to go ahead and give him two drops? This will be around 8 p.m.
Click to expand...
Sometimes bounces take two or three days to clear. If the 200 is a clearly rising number, that would mean insulin was most likely needed. But if it's a flat or falling number, it could still be the bounce clearing.
 
Re: 9/24, Corduroy, AMBG=497, +2=477, +3=369, +4=394, +10=33

sorry you feel like you have been getting conflicting information. The reason people were suggesting an OTJ trial yesterday was because of the LO (you can't ignore those!) and the fact that they assumed 0.1u was the smallest dose you can shoot. We do normally suggest that an OTJ trial be started on the next "normal" preshot, meaning that if the cat bounces, you would continue giving insulin until he is back in green (or almost green) numbers again. If his pancreas is working well, then he might be able to pull those high numbers down on his own, but it makes sense to go ahead and help him out. You don't want the newly functioning pancreas to have to work TOO hard and possibly get tired already.

If Corduroy was mine, I would give insulin tonight, but give a dose smaller than your 0.1u. One drop or two is up to you, as long as those are less than 0.1u. Then get some tests early in the cycle to see what is going on (it looks like he tends to drop early in the cycle). See what that dose does. If he is still dropping too much on that dose, we can talk about either setting a "no-shot" number at which you won't shoot below, or learning how to feed the cycle to prevent early drops, or brainstorm about another strategy. First I would try the smaller dose, though.

And, now that I typed all this, if he all of a sudden decides to throw a great PMPS number, ignore what I just said and post for advice. :mrgreen:

Just my opinion, hope it helps!
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Back
Top