9/23 Champ AMPS 288, +2 216, +4 175 - Adequan users?

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Patty & Champ

Patty & Champ

Member Since 2011
Condo from 9/21

Champ got another increase this morning and is now on 2.5u. He had a nice flat day yesterday, but it was mid to high 200's so we have a lot of room for improvement. He's drinking more water and peeing more so I definitely need to nip this in the bud (who else here is a Barney Fife fan?!!).

I've been googling like crazy, trying to find any reference to Lantus causing leg weakness/trembling, but there's absolutely nothing. I have found references to arthritis causing this problem due to pain and loss of muscle strength. Maybe Champ's vet is right and that's what's causing it. If so, the Dasuquin isn't helping at all. It did seem to help his movement for the first couple three weeks, but now we seem to be back to square one. Maybe Champ does have arthritis and it's just progressing and I need to start him on the Adequan. Any Adequan users out there? I'd like to know the cost of the med and how effective it seems to be. I know you start out at a higher dose, or it's given more often, and then you taper it to a maintenance dose. Is the improvement dramatic? I'm thinking I should probably try the Adequan before trying a switch to Lev since it seems more likely the leg trembling and weakness is caused by arthritis than an adverse reaction to Lantus. However, if Champ's liver can't remember to stop freaking out all the time, Lev may be in his future anyway.

I would just like to say......!!!TGIF!!! I am SO ready for this week to be over!! I hope everyone has a fantabulous Friday!!!
 
Re: 9/23 Champ AMPS 288 - Any Adequan users out there?

Hi guys .. Good luck with the dose increase .. hoping that brings champ down to some lower levels for you! I wish I had the answers to your questions but I don't :sad: I hope you have others chime in with experience so champ can get on the road to recovery .. and I second TGIF!! Have a great weekend!
 
Re: 9/23 Champ AMPS 288 - Any Adequan users out there?

Good morning Patty! Yay for Friday! Hope the increase helps and brings Champ back down into the blues and greens.

We use adequan for our lab and love it. He got a shot every 3 days the first 3 weeks and then it tapered down to 1 a month and now as needed. The total cost was $120 for 3 months worth of medicine. I'm not sure how they do it for a cat though. I know that there are a few who do use it though and have had really good results from it. Amy (& Trixie) I believe uses it for one of her civvies.

Hope you have a wonderful day!!
 
Re: 9/23 Champ AMPS 288 - Any Adequan users out there?

no experience with Adequan...

Here are the notes from binks journal that i promised...

the weakness and trembling binks displayed started with hock-walking on the hinds legs and progressed to where his front "knees"
would collapse slightly when he was sitting...like muscle degeneration. That's what led to his FD diagnosis appt.
after initial Dx...he was placed on Vetsulin, and now we are sure it was a bad vial to begin with.

3 months on that junk...and he was desperately ill...and the leg issues increased throughout.
we started lantus Sept 2010...

and as his numbers got better...with MB12, exercise & massage on a daily basis...he began to improve.
one thing that i found odd and checked daily was that if you touched or tickled one of his back feet,
he would experience an involuntary "spasm reaction" of that leg...like a kicking motion.

since he went OTJ...i continued the MB12, exercise, and massage...and those symptoms in the last few months
were almost non-existent...until his bg's rose again.

that's why i've felt it was the neuropathy for him.

one thing I asked Venita & The Boys in the beginning was regarding pain...
I know neuropathy can be terribly painful in humans...but binks never has shown any signs of pain in his legs.
We dug around a little, but never found any insight to that question.
 
Re: 9/23 Champ AMPS 288 - Any Adequan users out there?

Come on back down Champ, we know you can get those pretty color numbers. No advice on the Adequan. You are seeing increased weakness with the rising dose? Well that goes right along w/ the rising numbers and that can worsen the neuropathy. It's quite possible that Champ has both arthritis and neuropathy. You are using methyl B12? What do others say about an increase in that?
 
Re: 9/23 Champ AMPS 288 - Any Adequan users out there?

Hi Patty-

We use adequan for our 16 year old, Mario. It has done him a lot of good - I'd recommend trying it. I posted this in J.D.s condo just last night:

"Yes, it comes in a vial, just like insulin. I've gotten it from my vet so far, but it's my understanding that it can be purchased online for less (of course). I think it was about $110 from my vet.

There's a "loading dose": you do injections twice a week for 4 weeks, then once a week for 4 weeks, then every other week for 4 weeks, then once a month. However, with Mario, I can see the effects of it wearing off towards the end of 2 weeks, so I've been holding him close to the every other week dosage for a bit longer. My vet is a bit nervous about that, but I had asked about it over on Health, and several people gave it on an as-need basis, ranging from once a week to every other week, for an extended period of time.

The vet said it would take around 4 weeks to see results, but I started seeing improvement after just a couple shots.

Dosage is based on weight, and it is quite a bit more than insulin. Plus, the needles are much bigger - I'm not home so I can't remember for sure of the top of my head, but I want to say 21 gauge.

It really has done wonders for Mario...his posture and movement are greatly improved. He still really can't jump, and at 16.5 years old, I'm not sure if that's going to come back. But he is definitely way more comfortable. And, I have a theory that the cosequin just did not agree with him anyway...but that's a whole other ball of wax."

Amy
 
Re: 9/23 Champ AMPS 288 - Any Adequan users out there?

I'm so interested in this question! Kitty has the same symptoms that Champ has, the trembling and weakness, and I know he has arthritis. It isn't an insulin thing for us, because Kitty is OTJ. :mrgreen:

Our vet has seen it work for cats and is willing to prescribe it. I'm still afraid of giving the shots, because I understand it's intramuscular and requires a flank shot. If anyone wants to offer guidance on that, I'd love to hear it. I've thought about seeking a vet tech who might come by to administer the shot - expensive, but stress-reliever for me.
 
Re: 9/23 Champ AMPS 288 - Any Adequan users out there?

Actually, the shots don't need to be done intramuscularly. I was concerned about that as well, but apparently someone somewhere along the way discovered that it works equally as well as a subQ shot, which is how we give it to Mario.
 
Re: 9/23 Champ AMPS 288 - Any Adequan users out there?

Actually, the shots don't need to be done intramuscularly. I was concerned about that as well, but apparently someone somewhere along the way discovered that it works equally as well as a subQ shot, which is how we give it to Mario.
Click to expand...

REALLY?? Does that mean it can be done in the scruff????

That would be a world-changer.

How much do the larger needles hurt? Does Marlo complain?
 
Re: 9/23 Champ AMPS 288 - Any Adequan users out there?

Yup, we do it in the scruff. It takes more pressure to get the needle in, but Mario seems pretty thick-skinned compared to Trix :lol: ! It does take two of us to do it, only because giving him injections is not a regular thing for him. He doesn't fight it, but he's a bit squirmy at times. One of us scratches his cheeks while the other does the injection. Just like Trix, he looks for those treats afterwards, so he's made the connection!
 
Re: 9/23 Champ AMPS 288 - Any Adequan users out there?

This is big, big news.

What dose do you use? How much does Mario weight?
 
Re: 9/23 Champ AMPS 288 - Any Adequan users out there?

My vet also said it's given subcu. There's no way I would do an intramuscular shot. It would hurt and he wouldn't want to sit still for it and that would freak me out!!!

Ann--thanks for the article!! I'm going to read it right now!!

How "funny" that so many kitties have the same problem with the trembling/wobbly legs!! From now on, we need to report any little thing we notice in our cats so we can get advice and observations from each other. I've been so worried about this, thinking Champ was all alone with this problem and he was going to end up a cripple. I even had a little talk with him and told him that I would buy a baby carrier pack, like the one in the Get Fuzzy comic strip. Rob carries Bucky Cat around in a front pack. I told Champ I'd carry him around wherever he had to go!!! :lol: :lol: :lol:
 
Re: 9/23 Champ AMPS 288 - Any Adequan users out there?

Mario is about 13 lbs, and gets 30mls. (Hopefully I've got that dosage terminology correct...I'm so used to "units" that I'm not 100% sure about the adequan terminology, but I believe it is the equivalent of 30 units. Don't quote me on that just yet, though...I can confirm it when I get home from work.)
 
Re: 9/23 Champ AMPS 288 - Any Adequan users out there?

Never ceases to amaze me how much knowledge there is among kittybeans, here to be shared. Thank you for this condo, and thank you for all the information! I am going to talk to the vet to get Kitty started on Adequan. :-D
 
Re: 9/23 Champ AMPS 288 - Any Adequan users out there?

It really is amazing here, isn't it? I swear, the people on this site have helped me with Mario as much as they've helped me with Trix!
 
Re: 9/23 Champ AMPS 288 - Any Adequan users out there?

I have used Adequan on Miss Emily for severe arthritis, and currently use it on Pinkerton for moderate arthritis. I give it sub Q, using a tuberculin syringe. I buy the vials from my vet - they are pretty expensive in Canada, but I don't know about the US cost. I agree with what others have said about starting with the loading dose and tapering off, though Emily's arthritis was severe enough that she stayed on it weekly long term. I give a dose of .28 ml for a 10 - 12 pound cat. I think that it is a very helpful drug. It will have a fairly slow onset - you should start to see effects in a few weeks. The worse the disease, the more you need to layer it with other treatments like omega oils, supplements, heat pads, acupuncture, etc. Pain control is also important in severe cases. I think that trembling can be a sign of pain.

I believe you mentioned that bloodwork always comes back normal? Are you certain that kidney values, CBC, potassium, and thyroid are normal? I would want to rule out issues in those areas. Another disease that can cause muscle wasting is Cushings disease. Are you seeing weakness only in the front legs, or are the hind legs also affected?
 
Re: 9/23 Champ AMPS 288 - Any Adequan users out there?

Thanks for sharing all this information on Adequan. Zener is having some of these same problems though he also has cerebellar hypoplasia so it can be hard to tell, though lately he is complaining with getting up and down and being picked up. So, it seems more like arthritis than peripheral neuropathy related. But I'm not sure if there can be pain along with peripheral neuropathy in cats?
 
Re: 9/23 Champ AMPS 288 - Any Adequan users out there?

Ann---read those articles and they were fantastic. My vet has already told me that Adequan is the next step with Champ so I think that's the route we'll be taking.

Linda---you remember correctly about the bloodwork!! Everything has come back perfectly normal on multiple occasions, except glucose, of course!! He has absolutely no symptoms in his back legs that I can see. He's never walked on his hocks. He does have a "dip" in the middle of his back that makes him look swaybacked. When he walks, he does tend to keep his head lowered. Thanks for all your info!!
 
Re: 9/23 Champ AMPS 288 - Any Adequan users out there?

Patty & Champ said:
Linda---you remember correctly about the bloodwork!! Everything has come back perfectly normal on multiple occasions, except glucose, of course!! He has absolutely no symptoms in his back legs that I can see. He's never walked on his hocks. He does have a "dip" in the middle of his back that makes him look swaybacked. When he walks, he does tend to keep his head lowered. Thanks for all your info!!
Click to expand...

Emily had that exact dip in her back. Her X-rays showed arthritis in her hips and shoulders, and also in her back (click to view video).

 
Linda, thanks for the video!! Champ's dip is a little further back, so there's a higher area in the front and in the back of the dip. In the video, when emily turned, her front legs cross weird, like she can't get them to move out of each others way....Champ does that, though not as badly. She really looks gimpy, poor little thing!!! Makes me want to pick her up and carry her!! I think I know where Champ is headed, though, by the looks of Emily. Champ's only 10, relatively young, so it kind of worries me.
 
A very interesting condo indeed, have you thought about a serious weight loss/exercise program for Champers? I know he's only 10 and that seems awfully young for him to be gimpy already, maybe he's just got too much weight on him?

Leo had some serious muscle wasting, which is what clued us in to "something isn't right here" and took him to the vet and he was dx with FD. He's outside pretty much every waking moment walking around but i know that probably isn't an option for Champ since he doesn't go outside. But he's definitely gained all his muscle mass back and more! He has no more neuropathy either and i don't know if that's due to the methyl B12 or being tightly regulated, all i know is that if the B12 had anything to do with it, it definitely took 2-3 months of a high dose for the neuropathy to go away.

I hope you figure out what the dealio is with Champers.....i know how much you hate seeing him like this.
 
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