9/20 - Frosty - cautiously optimistic

Ana & Frosty (GA)

Ana & Frosty (GA)

Member Since 2018
It's actually really scary to write this, because things can change on a dime from OK to bad, but I feel you all deserve an update.

Frosty is starting to eat better. He is still very thin and weak, but he has been a little more active the last 2 days. He still won't take his meds. I cut out all his heart meds, and even potassium because he just spit its out and gets upset, even if I give it to him via syringe. So we are only doing Cerenia, appetite stimulant, and insulin at this point (the essentials). But the crazy thing is, it seems to be working...

Thankfully, he hasn't gone into heart failure since we stopped the fluids and after being on lasix for a few days. He still has ascites, but yesterday I actually made him take the lasix and the belly looks a little better today. I think 1/2 pill once or twice a day will probably help him get rid of all the excess fluid but again, right now the most important thing is getting him eating.

I can't even begin to thank you all for all the responses and well wishes and hugs and everything else. The support is overwhelming, and I wish I could tag each one of you by name and thank you personally. I was literally planning his funeral on Sunday and was coming to terms that this was it. And I do not know if he will continue improving for sure, since we don't know if this was really a bad pancreatitis flare, or if there's some underlying cancer going on. But even coming this far seems like a MIRACLE.

I have never experienced anything like this before, and I am just shocked and in awe. I thought for sure we were going to be putting him down this week. I am kind of speechless and shaking my head right now, and just want to laugh and cry at the same time. Perhaps some of you have experienced this kind of unexpected recovery from a cat or even a human and can relate, but this is new for me and it's hard to find words to even express how it feels.

So we are trying to just take it one day at a time. As a side note, I may have given him a fur shot tonight, and his sugars are through the roof anyway (probably because we have been off Vetoryl for 2 weeks now), but WHO CARES - he is alive, eating, and moving around more than he has in the last 2 weeks since all this started. He went up the stairs for the first time today in 2 weeks. I am praying the recovery continues, and I will just have to deal with all his medications and heart problems if/when he gets better.

I am wondering though - someone here has talked about "gel caps" that they put their cat's medicine in - could you direct me to where I can buy some? I'm thinking it might be easier to hide in the food if they don't smell/taste like the medicine.

THANK YOU all again so much. I will hopefully post an update this weekend. :bighug:
 
''''Sigh'''' of relief! I've been watching the boards...hopeful...so glad to hear that you've been given a reprieve...thank Frosty for that! It's a wonderful, sad, crazy thing this love we have for our cats...and that underlying dread...we all know it too well...hard to express these kinds of feelings...but know that we all 'know'...we care...we support, grieve, celebrate...send love...and hugs...over the ether...

Here are some more healing vines, prayers and hugs for you...from the ether...feel the love {{{{{{{Frosty and Ana}}}}}} :bighug::bighug::bighug::bighug::bighug::bighug:
 
LizzieInTexas said:
I get them from thrivingpets.com

Probably #4 and #5 would work

I also reuse the emptied caps from the B12 and Canna (supplements I add to his food).
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Thanks.
Are #4 and 5 really tiny? How do you get the medicine into them? I am just looking at pictures of the caps and they are really small. Things like lasix or benazepril would fit, but not the cerenia or the vetmedin (it's HUGE). do you crush them?
 
I've always gotten my gelcaps on Amazon. For the most part, I've used #3, which is a decent size, but I've also used #4 (which is smaller than #3). I've never crushed a pill for a gelcap, but there are times I've cut a pill up into many small pieces to make it fit. The main reason I don't actually crush the pills up into powder is because if I have trouble getting the pill down (ie, it takes multiple attempts), the gelcap starts getting mushy and needs to be repacked. If the pill is in small pieces, you can reuse them, whereas if the pill is in powder form, you'd have to toss the whole thing and start over again.

Another trick is to slather a little butter on the gelcap to make it slide down the throat more easily. And follow up with a small syringe of water, to make sure it fully washes down.

Gelcaps really are a lifesaver.
 
Amy&TrixieCat said:
I've always gotten my gelcaps on Amazon. For the most part, I've used #3, which is a decent size, but I've also used #4 (which is smaller than #3). I've never crushed a pill for a gelcap, but there are times I've cut a pill up into many small pieces to make it fit. The main reason I don't actually crush the pills up into powder is because if I have trouble getting the pill down (ie, it takes multiple attempts), the gelcap starts getting mushy and needs to be repacked. If the pill is in small pieces, you can reuse them, whereas if the pill is in powder form, you'd have to toss the whole thing and start over again.

Another trick is to slather a little butter on the gelcap to make it slide down the throat more easily. And follow up with a small syringe of water, to make sure it fully washes down.

Gelcaps really are a lifesaver.
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How do you stop the buttered gel cap from sliding out of your fingers as you're prying your cat's mouth open? :joyful: Serious question. These are the challenges I am having with these meds!:facepalm:
 
Ana & Frosty said:
How do you stop the buttered gel cap from sliding out of your fingers as you're prying your cat's mouth open? :joyful: Serious question. These are the challenges I am having with these meds!:facepalm:
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It can be a challenge sometimes! When I do pilling, I sit on the floor with the kitty wedged between my legs facing forward (in other words, we're both facing the same direction). I actually use the pill to force the mouth open by pressing it in the corner of their mouth - it's a natural reflex for them. Once they open their mouth, I push the pill in as quickly as possible - having confidence is half the battle! If they spit it out, I try again (that's when the gelcap starts getting slippery!). With gelcaps, I've found I can get maybe 5 tries at the most before it gets too mushy and I have to repack.
 
So happy to hear you are seeing some improvement! I pray for Frosty every day and am thrilled he is doing better. The only suggestion I have is to use a piller. My Rose gets a capsule 2x/ day. She only has 4 teeth, but if I didn't have this piller, I'd be missing some fingers. ;)

Sending continued well wishes to you both!
 
I've been anxiously waiting to see each of your updates and my heart would sink a little more with each one that said he wasn't doing well, so to see this one saying that he is showing some improvement makes me so happy! Will continue to hope and pray with all my heart for things to continue getting better. Keep fighting, Frosty :bighug::bighug::bighug::bighug::bighug:
 
Glad to see improvement. I used size 3 and 4 gelcaps. I cut the pills to fit. Sometimes I ground them up. I bought from amazon as well. Just remember the smaller the number the BIGGER the gel cap. I bought some 5’s once they were not that much smaller than the 4’s. So size 5 is the smallest.
 
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Ana & Frosty said:
I am wondering though - someone here has talked about "gel caps" that they put their cat's medicine in - could you direct me to where I can buy some? I'm thinking it might be easier to hide in the food if they don't smell/taste like the medicine.
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WooHoo, good stuff Ana!! Yes!! I used and still use gel caps for everything - Enalapril (1st heart med), lasix, benazepril (current heart med), fish oil, powdered Chinese herbs, antibiotics - whatever Dante needs, goes into a gel cap. I use a size 3 along with a capsule filling machine and tamper from Herbaffair. He just lost a tooth a few weeks ago, so the 10-day antibiotic went into a gel cap (had to cut the pill in half) and down the hatch it went!! I have the Cap M Quik machine and tamper here is their video:

Here is their website. https://www.herbaffair.com/collecti...kit-filler-tamper-1000-empty-gelatin-capsules -

Be careful of the sizes, they vary according to the company= some are larger as the size goes lower, and some capsules hold less as the size gets higher. With herb affair, the smaller the number size, the larger the capsule e.g., size 00 holds 600-1100mg, size 0 holds 400-800 mg - I use size 3 (holds 150-300 mg) which seems the perfect size for a 14 lb cat - his benazepril and herbs fit in there perfectly.

The Cap M Quick filling machine fills 50 caps at one time, sooooooo convenient!! The 'tamper' is used to press in the medicine so you can fill more inside - I was using the end of a chopstick before they made the tamper for a size 3 capsule. (I use powder, so I had to find the weight of the medicine). If you call the pharmacy where you fill Frosty's Rx, they should be able to tell you the total mg and also which size capsule will fit the meds. You may decide on several smaller capsules instead of 1 large size 00.

When giving it to Dante, I am sitting on the floor with him and with my hands dry, I dip only half of the capsule into water or his chicken broth (I make slow cooker chicken with the fat taken off the broth), so it doesn't slide all over the place. I then place it on the inside of his cheek closest to me and with a tiny push, (capsule being half wet with water or broth), he swallows it right down! The first few times, if I didn't put it down his mouth far enough, he spit it right back out. Be careful not to put it down too far or he will gag, it only took a few times for me to gauge how far he could handle it and now it is sooooooo easy, he even opens his mouth now every time! He can take the most bitterest pill and not even taste it.

Another option is to call an emergency vet hospital, they will guide you - as well as probably give you some gel caps to try before you buy. That is how it was introduced to me as Enalapril and benazepril makes many cats foam at the mouth from the taste. Lasix wasn't an issue, but I added it to the capsule as well. I sure hope this helps as gel caps were a godsend to me. They have chicken flavored gel caps which is what the hospital suggested, and I bought it at first, then my second bag was unflavored capsules as Dante was so used to it by then that the flavor didn't matter. I buy 1000 capsules 2x a year for Dante with no complaints from him. People are amazed when they see Dante taking pills so easily with the capsules! Keep posting, I am taking online courses, so I login here only a few times a week and read but don't have the time to respond. If you have any questions, tag me and I will reply. Good job, your love for Frosty is powerful, prayer is powerful - now start giving him positive energy and envision him jumping around all over the place and being healthy, he will pick up on it! You go, girl!!! Great job!
 
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Theresa and I have been worried about Frosty for the past 2 or 3 weeks. I am glad to hear he is eating again, and on some insulin. Even if it is only for awhile.

We have been through this before with various kittehs. Leo is on his 4th or 5th life. Really. We thought multiple times "this is it". And we were like you, spending lots of money and time. Sometimes they recover. I hope Frosty continues to eat and improve. This is great news!:bighug::bighug::bighug:
 
I am thrilled for you Ana.:bighug::bighug::bighug:
Ana & Frosty said:
Perhaps some of you have experienced this kind of unexpected recovery from a cat or even a human and can relate, but this is new for me and it's hard to find words to even express how it feels.
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Note the "reversible myocarditis" in my signature. Neko went into failure, then just as magically, went out. Whether it was the vetmedim or her will to live, I was thrilled. Apparently it's rare in cats, but acromegaly used to be too. I was floating on air for a while. From my experience, I would say no more fluids. I unfortunately listened to the IM vet and we started a tiny bit back every other day, and I think that led to her downfall. Or at least shortened the time I had with her.

The heart second failure, I started up Lasix, just a little bit every other day. I got it in liquid format. I found liquid meds so much easier to give. For capsules, which I did have to do, I used the Buster piller to shoot it down, followed by a chaser of water. I did get a bunch of size 4 gel caps from a local compounding pharmacy and some size 5 originally from the specialty vet clinic. That did me until my Amazon order arrived.

I used only the #4 and #5 gel caps. Neko had some soft tissue growth in her pharynx, so I wanted to stick with the smaller size gel caps. I wasn't quite as high tech as Carol for stuffing the gel caps. I got a piece of corrogated cardboard, stuck a gel cap size hole in it. That held the bottom of the gel cap. Then I used a cocktail toothpick to tamp it down. Not all my meds were the same every day, so I couldn't have made a lot in advance anyway. You can still fit mulitple meds into a size 4.

I do suggest seeing if you can get different form factor meds. I had powdered Vetmedin, some here had liquid. I used a tiny mini funnel for filling the powder into the gel caps. Found them at my local cooking toy store.
 
So happy to here Frosty is doing better! Prayers and vines for continued improvement!

The Buster Piller Wendy mentioned is a great help. I've had one for years (don't know that its the same brand, but looks the same) and used it for many different meds on many different kitties. It's much easier than trying to get the pill down with your fingers and they can't bite down on your fingers either.
 
Jill & Scooter said:
So happy to here Frosty is doing better! Prayers and vines for continued improvement!

The Buster Piller Wendy mentioned.
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Dan got me one from petsmart earlier this week but it didn’t work AT ALL. He spit it out right away. I have more control with my fingers. How that he’s more alert I might lose a few trying :smuggrin: this cat is not shy about biting when he’s not happy.
 
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