9/2 Willow AMPS 444 / +3 387 / +7 397

[cabreu]

New here and saying hello! I've been stuck in the pink and red (and sometimes black) with Willow, but hoping to make it to yellow someday!

 

[Wendy&Neko]

Hello and welcome over here. Here's the link to your introductory post on Feline Health. Lots of good info over there for anyone trying to catch up.

There was some discussion about dosing methods in your previous post - have you decided whether you'd like to follow Tight Regulation or Start Low Go Slow for dosing yet? If so, please put TR or SLGS in your signature - just saves time when people want to help you. Oops, just saw SLGS in your spreadsheet - do you mind replicating in your signature. We always look there first. Obviously in my part. Just a note, sticking with SLGS will take you over twice as long, maybe even more than that, to get to yellows, much less blues and greens. TR allows increases every 3 days, and by 0.5 units if you aren't seeing yellows yet. SLGS has you wait 7 days and just increase by 0.25 units. Of course, TR does require at least six tests a day, so that has to work with your lifestyle.

Can you tell me a bit about Willow? How is she doing these days? How are her litter box habits (pee, poo)? She purring, playing, preening? We call these the 5 P's. We like to get an idea of how the cat is doing as a whole, as they are more than their numbers. And we can't see anything else but.

Is there a reason you listed lo phos in your signature? Does Willow have a condition that needs low P? BTW, none of the Fancy Feast are what I'd call low P, some are medium.

In reading your previous post, your vet said cats don't go above 2 units. My girl got up to 8.75 units, we've had some on much more. A cat needs what they need. As long as you are testing enough to know how low the dose is taking the cat, and going up in reasonable sized increases, she will safely get to the dose she needs.

 

[cabreu]

Hello and welcome over here. Here's the link to your introductory post on Feline Health. Lots of good info over there for anyone trying to catch up.

There was some discussion about dosing methods in your previous post - have you decided whether you'd like to follow Tight Regulation or Start Low Go Slow for dosing yet? If so, please put TR or SLGS in your signature - just saves time when people want to help you. Oops, just saw SLGS in your spreadsheet - do you mind replicating in your signature. We always look there first. Obviously in my part. Just a note, sticking with SLGS will take you over twice as long, maybe even more than that, to get to yellows, much less blues and greens. TR allows increases every 3 days, and by 0.5 units if you aren't seeing yellows yet. SLGS has you wait 7 days and just increase by 0.25 units. Of course, TR does require at least six tests a day, so that has to work with your lifestyle.

Thank you for the response!

Yes it's the testing I'm worried about. I need 8 hours of sleep, and setting an alarm to wake up and test in the middle of the night won't work for me. But it seems that you need to know your cat's overnight low for TR, right? Also, do you mean at least six tests every single day? So I couldn't go on a hike or to a friend's house for the day?

Can you tell me a bit about Willow? How is she doing these days? How are her litter box habits (pee, poo)? She purring, playing, preening? We call these the 5 P's. We like to get an idea of how the cat is doing as a whole, as they are more than their numbers. And we can't see anything else but.

She is doing pretty well. She had some diarrhea but that is clearing up with probiotics. Still peeing a lot, but maybe less than before, and she is covering her waste after a previous strike that went on for months.

Is there a reason you listed lo phos in your signature? Does Willow have a condition that needs low P? BTW, none of the Fancy Feast are what I'd call low P, some are medium.

Yes she has early signs of CKD. I'm using the lowest-phosphorus FF that is also low-carb. I was more concerned with finding a low-carb food that she would eat.

In reading your previous post, your vet said cats don't go above 2 units. My girl got up to 8.75 units, we've had some on much more. A cat needs what they need. As long as you are testing enough to know how low the dose is taking the cat, and going up in reasonable sized increases, she will safely get to the dose she needs.

Yes I might find another vet. I'd rather not spend more money right now, though.

 

[Wendy&Neko]

I stuck with my vet, who knew a lot about other things, just not so much the diabetes. I was the first client to home test. We butted heads a bit in the beginning, in a friendly way, then learned together.

Thanks for the info on the early stage CKD. There are lots of low carb/low phosphorus options. Weruva makes quite a few as an example. And you are right, it's most important she eat. You can always add binder later if needed. I had guessed on the CKD (might want to mention that in the signature too) as it's a common reason people look for low P. And a reason you want to try to get her numbers down faster. As she spends all this time above renal threshold, it's hard on the kidneys.

Good to hear the probiotics are working now!

As for testing, a lot of us need sleep! You don't always need a mid cycle test. With Lantus, a +2 or +3 test will give you a good idea whether your cat is going to drop a lot overnight. If it looks like a steep drop, you have two options. Option 1 is setting an alarm to wake up later to test. Not everyone can do that, so in that case the option is to use food to keep them safe. If you haven't already, I'd invest in an autofeeder, that can dole out food at appropriate times. The tips in this post on doing TR with a full time job, also work for night time.

 

[cabreu]

I stuck with my vet, who knew a lot about other things, just not so much the diabetes. I was the first client to home test. We butted heads a bit in the beginning, in a friendly way, then learned together.

Thanks for the info on the early stage CKD. There are lots of low carb/low phosphorus options. Weruva makes quite a few as an example. And you are right, it's most important she eat. You can always add binder later if needed. I had guessed on the CKD (might want to mention that in the signature too) as it's a common reason people look for low P. And a reason you want to try to get her numbers down faster. As she spends all this time above renal threshold, it's hard on the kidneys.

Good to hear the probiotics are working now!

As for testing, a lot of us need sleep! You don't always need a mid cycle test. With Lantus, a +2 or +3 test will give you a good idea whether your cat is going to drop a lot overnight. If it looks like a steep drop, you have two options. Option 1 is setting an alarm to wake up later to test. Not everyone can do that, so in that case the option is to use food to keep them safe. If you haven't already, I'd invest in an autofeeder, that can dole out food at appropriate times. The tips in this post on doing TR with a full time job, also work for night time.

Ok, would it be alright to try TR for a little while, and go back to SLGS once I reached yellow/blue? I am just afraid of getting pulled into years of high-intensity testing. I would like to even go camping at some point and have a simple dose for a sitter to give her, without testing.

I do really admire and respect all of you who can handle this high-intensity testing and self-education, on top of helping others. This is PhD-level effort and expertise.

 

[Wendy&Neko]

Absolutely possible to do TR for a while, then slow down as you get closer to a good dose. Even people who do TR can go on holidays and go camping or go away for work (back when people did that ). Just lower the dose for the time period you are gone. We can help you find a safe dose to give while you are away.

We kid that people are learning graduate level feline diabetes here. After a while, when you learn your cat's Lantus patterns more, you learn when you have to test, and when you can ease off. Some people admit they are testaholics, I typically did 5 tests a day, one of them for data gathering purposes, so not strictly necessary. My girl's CKD was worse, and she had some other complications which mean she was a little harder to manage. Her diabetes was caused by a benign pituitary tumour (acromegaly) which put out excess growth hormone that caused her diabetes. The output was somewhat random and she did manage to surprise me a few times.

 

[cabreu]

Ok, you've convinced me. I just re-read the TR protocol descriptions and am surprised they also don't say you have to test overnight. The issue seems to be more about what to do when the pre-shot value is low (50-100?), and I imagine that would be scary to shoot the normal dose at night and go to bed. Also, you say that you can test 2-3 hours afterward to estimate how low the cat will go overnight, but this seems very tricky. Without data showing me what number at 2-3hrs leads to what number at 6-8hrs, I would have no idea.

Anyway, I am happy about the prospect of finally getting Willow's BG down more. Thanks for the pep talk! I'm planning to start 3 units Friday morning. (And btw maybe you kid about graduate-level studies but I wasn't... this is serious!)

 

[Wendy&Neko]

Good luck with the new dose, I want to see Willow in better numbers sooner. With my girl needing a higher dose, it took me a while to get there.

 

[cabreu]

Good luck with the new dose, I want to see Willow in better numbers sooner. With my girl needing a higher dose, it took me a while to get there.

Thanks. Sorry that your kitty had so many complications. That must have been frustrating and I imagine you learned a lot.

 

[Wendy&Neko]

She was my best teacher.