9/2 Charlie PMPS Hi +2 410 +3.5 335 +7 337

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charliesmom

charliesmom

Member Since 2012
yesterday

Woke up to 2 large piles of vomit on the couch. I have to tell you guys, I feel a little discouraged this morning. I worry that all the money that we're spending and all the time we're taking to do all these blood tests is not leading to results. Is it time to increase to 1.75 units?

On a positive note, Charlie was snuggly with me in bed this morning. Normally, she is so restless these days that she hardly comes to snuggle. That made me feel good, and it also made me feel a bit sad that I can't do more for her faster.

This dance is always referred to as a marathon and not a sprint. Even when training for a marathon though, you start to see some visible results. The little cuddle this morning was the only result I feel like we've seen in awhile.
 

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Re: 9/2 Charlie AMPS 319 +3 81!!

OK. I have to laugh. This cat wins the prize for unpredictability. Here she goes DIVING into the greens now just when I thought that wouldn't happen. I assume this means the lantus had more of an effect this morning since she vomited? Hard to say, but I guess a dose increase doesn't make sense until we get a bit more data on her at 1.5 under "normal" circumstances. What is "Normal" for Charlie? There is no normal, but I guess we can try on a day when she doesn't throw up?

This kitty is one who likes to keep us all guessing. I tell ya.
 
Re: 9/2 Charlie AMPS 319 +3 81 +4 43!!

+4 was 43. Is there anybody out there? Just fed Charlie some LC and will see the effect that has.
 
Re: 9/2 Charlie AMPS 319 +3 81 +4 43!!

Hi, charlies mom. It's holiday in the states so maybe nobody's around much. Do you have any high carb food with gravy in it? If so can you give a teaspoon of gravy? Then check BG in 15-20 minutes. I'm only a newbie and not qualified to really help but since nobody's here...
 
Re: 9/2 Charlie AMPS 319 +3 81 +4 43!!

Thanks Mike. Just before your message, we fed Charlie wet food with beef and gravy (about 5-6% carbs) and add some maple syrup on top of it. Charlie is eating it like there's no tomorrow! Will test again in 15. Thanks for chiming in and hope your little BJ is hanging in there. Must be sad to see him sick like that. It's good you're taking him to the vet for antibiotics.
 
Re: 9/2 Charlie AMPS 319 +3 81 +4 43!!

Bj is doing ok, thank you for asking. Let's see if Charlie can get a bit of a rise soon. I've been told not to feed too much at once so don't stuff Charlie, ok? Plus, maybe she will barf again - that won't be good.
 
Re: 9/2 Charlie AMPS 319 +3 81 +4 43!!

We fed half a can. Testing again now, but she's hiding behind the couch so I suspect she's not at her most comfortable.
 
Re: 9/2 Charlie AMPS 319 +3 81 +4 43!!

Oh Charliesmom, just saw your post where you fed Charlie. No wonder Charlie loved it - sounds like a maple sundae! :-D That should give a rise. I'll check back; need to give Maggie her meds.
 
Re: 9/2 Charlie AMPS 319 +3 81 +4 43!!

Hey, we can test our cats at the same time heh. Need to get me a +3 :smile:
 
Re: 9/2 Charlie AMPS 319 +3 81 +4 43 +5 83

No vomit. Still hiding behind the couch. Will check again shortly.
 
Re: 9/2 Charlie AMPS 319 +3 81 +4 43 +5 83

I read Charlie's story, that's great you took her in like that. I can't believe guys would do stuff like that to a poor kitty it makes me so :evil:

It's funny, I have a similar story. I was visiting at my friend's and a little starving dog came around the apartment. We fed it and it wanted to hang around and we all felt terrible. So late that night I'm getting in my truck and what do I see? You guessed it. One of my pals stuffed her in my vehicle. So I took her in, what else could I do. She was a good dog but she disappeared one day, it was sad :(
 
Re: 9/2 Charlie AMPS 319 +3 81 +4 43 +5 83

Mike, that totally reinforces my philosophy that sometimes, they choose us. Charlie came into my life a bit by surprise, but she has brought me all sorts of peace and love since then. Guess you had the same with that little pup who landed in your truck. Now you have the same with BJ. All the hard work now with him will pay off when he's feeling better and acting normal again.

I try to remind myself of that with this old girl.
 
Re: 9/2 Charlie AMPS 319 +3 81 +4 43 +5 83

Hi Charliesmom, so glad no vomit with Charlie. Here's a link on "How to Handle Low Numbers" from Marje's condo. You've probably seen it, but I'll post it here. You'll want to get two more tests to make sure Charlie doesn't bobble up and down. I haven't read Charlie's story yet, but what a lucky kitty he found you. :-D

http://felinediabetes.com/FDMB/viewtopic.php?f=9&t=46003

f your cat is testing in low numbers and you are not getting a quick response to your post, there are several things you need to do. (Low numbers are under 50mg/dL or 2.8 mmol/L.)


•Depending on how carbohydrate sensitive your cat is, feed approximately a teaspoon or less of food with high carb (HC) gravy or HC food only. (If you have a cat with GI issues, using syrup plus LC food is an alternative.)
•Test again in 15 – 20 min. Depending on the numbers, give more HC food.
•Repeat the above steps every 15 – 20 min. until your cat tests in the 50 mg/dL (2.8 mmol/L) or above range for 2 consecutive tests. Continue to feed in small amounts to keep numbers in a safe range.
•Test in 30 - 40 min. and repeat the test and feed process until there are 2 consecutive tests where numbers are stable or rising.
•Test in an hour and follow the same steps.

DO NOT become complacent. If number have risen after one or two tests, it’s important to continue testing. Numbers may bobble up and down as the HC food and/or Karo wear off. DO NOT get one test where your cat has risen from low numbers into the 50s and go to sleep or leave the house. You are putting your cat in a risky situation. When in doubt, leave HC food out.

In the case of an accidental overdose or should there be symptoms of hypoglycemia, even if you have caught this in the early stages, you may need to monitor for literally 16 or more hours. Lantus and Levemir are long acting types of insulin. This means if your cat is over dose, you will need to stay alert for hours in order to closely monitor and to keep your cat safe.
Click to expand...
 
Re: 9/2 Charlie AMPS 319 +3 81 +4 43 +5 83 +5.5 112

Thanks Ann. I already have that one printed out and stuck with a magnet to the range hood in our kitchen. Front and center, it's there when we need it in case nobody's on the board.
:-D
 
Re: 9/2 Charlie AMPS 319 +3 81 +4 43 +5 83 +5.5 112

I already have that one printed out and stuck with a magnet to the range hood in our kitchen. Front and center, it's there when we need it in case nobody's on the board.
Click to expand...
:-D That's great; I knew you probably had it! Sorry I haven't been by before to say "hi." Charlie is doing great and really loved the maple sundae.
 
Re: 9/2 Charlie AMPS 319 +3 81 +4 43 +5 83 +5.5 112

Glad to see you were able to get Charlie's numbers to come back up. Hope she keeps rising a little bit more for you.
 
Re: 9/2 Charlie AMPS 319 +3 81 +4 43 +5 83 +5.5 112

Oh my, I just read Charlie's profile and how identical to my baby! Maggie was also a feral and had been living in a ravine with other ferals below my apartments. I have her birth date as approximately 1-01-2000. Maggie found me when she was about a year or less old and already had two litters of kittens. Charlie is a beautiful kitty.
 
Re: 9/2 Charlie AMPS 319 +3 81 +4 43 +5 83 +5.5 112 +6 140

Maggie's a sweetheart too. "We're soul sisters!", says Charlie.

:smile:
 
Re: 9/2 Charlie AMPS 319 +3 81 +4 43 +5 83 +5.5 112 +6 140

That's a lovely green curve Charlie! Surf on the blue, boy!
You are doing great bringing up Charlie's low 43. All these insulin jabs & testing is helping the boy. The bg reading shows his DM condition and those green & blue are healing time for him. Keep up the good work!
And, Rosy was once an abondoned stray kitty too. All my 21 were once stray, now my family!
 
Re: 9/2 Charlie AMPS 319 +3 81 +4 43 +5 83 +5.5 112 +6 140

140 BG looks better. Make sure you test again in a little while, ok? And maybe give a tiny bit of food because the syrup rush might not last. Then probably test in another hour. Looks like you got it down so we're gonna hit the sack. Good night :-D
 
Re: 9/2 Charlie AMPS 319 +3 81 +4 43 +5 83 +5.5 112 +6 140

Rosy's mom: I really don't know how you do it with 21 kitties? You must have the patience of a saint. They are all very lucky to have you.

Glad we brought Charlie out of the low numbers. We'll do 1 more test in 30 minutes and if she's continuing to go up, we'll leave out some LC food and give her a break from testing until PMPS.

Have a great day guys and thanks for being there for the moral support.
 
Re: 9/2 Charlie AMPS 319 +3 81 +4 43 +5 83 +5.5 112 +6 140

Maggie's a sweetheart too. "We're soul sisters!", says Charlie.
Click to expand...

Aww.....thanks on Maggie! Yes, "soul sisters we are" says Maggie back to Charlie!

So good to see the 140! Good help from Mike and Bj. I'm going to take a shower. Catch up with you in a bit.
 
Re: 9/2 Charlie AMPS 319 +3 81 +4 43 +5 83 +5.5 112 +6 140

Hi Jill

Nice work with Charlie in the night. It's scary to see numbers drop to fast like that, so it's great that you took the early readings. In reading condos this morning and checking in with people, I see their location in the world on the right side of their posts, and think, WOW that's like 3am for them...they're up doing their nadir tests too! So funny.

I just read Charlie's story. Wow - thank you for doing that, and for sharing her story. And I LOVE the picture of her on the ground in front of the fan!!!

I will update Leo's profile with his full story. Leo would love to be part of the 1-1-2010 circle of kitties. He was an outside cat/feral (I don't quite understand the difference) and in late 2010 he adopted us by showing up at the back step for food. We didn't bring him in because he and Molly hissed like mad through the screen. But late 2011 he stopped coming by every day, then showed up with a bad appetite and a smelly bumpy tail. I fed him, then realized it was badly infected so we decided to capture him to take him to the ER the very next time he showed up. Well, that was New Year's Day, 1-1-2012. We spend the whole day at the ER and he came home with 12 stitches in his tale. The vet estimated he was about 2, so we decided that his birthday was 2 years prior to his bean's adoption. So we're not officially 1-1-2010, but he is in our hearts.

[Edited to correct my lack-of-coffee state]
 
Re: 9/2 Charlie AM319 +3 81 +4 43 +5 83 +5.5 112 +6 140 +6.5

That's such a cute story, Lisa. Another soul brother for Charlie!
Who's Carla though?

Charlie's BG was 173 at +6.5
Still consistently heading upwards. We left a bit more food out and now we will stop testing until this evening. Thanks again for all your support this morning guys.
Jill
 
Re: 9/2 Charlie AM319 +3 81 +4 43 +5 83 +5.5 112 +6 140 +6.5

Oh goodness, my coffee isn't all the way in me! I meant Ann. I was just reading about Carla and Furball and misspoke ... going back to edit my post. ACK I did it again! I was TRYING to reference Maggie and Charlie both in the 1-1-2010 club. ACK!!!!
 
Re: 9/2 Charlie AM319 +3 81 +4 43 +5 83 +5.5 112 +6 140 +6.5

Haha. Think you need another shot of espresso, girlfriend. Who's Ann? :lol:
 
Re: 9/2 Charlie AM319 +3 81 +4 43 +5 83 +5.5 112 +6 140 +6.5

You guys did great!! I love how everyone who was up in the wee hours here pitched in with support and help.

One suggestion -- If you're using food to bring up low numbers, you only want to feed a teaspoon or two at a time. There can be cycles where you have to feed over a few hours to stabilize the numbers. If you give half of a can of food, Charlie may not be hungry enough to eat and then you have a battle of wills or you have to syringe feed, etc.

It looks like Charlie gets a dose reduction. You're new dose will be 1.25u.

Just out of curiosity, were you ever able to find famotidine (Pepsid AC in the US)? If it's available, you could try giving Charlie 2.5mg (it's packaged in 10mg tablets in the US -- so it's 1/4 of a tablet). Some cats experience an acid stomach. If that's what's causing Charlie to vomit, the famotidine may help.
 
9/2 Charlie AMPS 319 +3 81 +4 43 +5 83 +6 140 +10 499

Thanks for the tips, Sienne.

We actually fed Charlie extra last night after we realize she was losing weight so rapidly. Do you think this could be why she threw up so much?

The other day when she threw up, it was different (small quantities of hairballs all around). This time it was a large volume (almost an entire meal split over 2 piles).

My gut tells me we need to hold at 1.5. I don't know why, but I think maybe she went low this morning because of throwing up last night.

What do you think? Dose reduction is of course easier to manage while we are both back at work tomorrow, but if you look at Charlie's SS you can see that at 1.25 she didn't seem to stabilize. So not sure what to do.

Jill
 
Re: 9/2 Charlie AM319 +3 81 +4 43 +5 83 +5.5 112 +6 140 +6.5

P.S. never found pepsid ac but will look again for it.
 
Re: 9/2 Charlie AM319 +3 81 +4 43 +5 83 +5.5 112 +6 140 +6.5

Nice handling of the low numbers!!! Hope Charlie keeps all this food down and starts putting on a little healthy weight! Aren't snuggles the best!?! These cats sure do have some special power over us, don't they?! Hope you guys have a good day with no more surprises!

~Deborah & Shasta
 
Re: 9/2 Charlie AM319 +3 81 +4 43 +5 83 +5.5 112 +6 140 +6.5

Hey, how is Charlie this morning? Sorry to see you had rough start, but congrats on the reducie!
 
Re: 9/2 Charlie AM319 +3 81 +4 43 +5 83 +5.5 112 +6 140 +6.5

Hello Jill,
This is great news!
Now you have your answer ( at least a great indicator) that there is a good dose for Charlie.
Charlie finally had her breakthru.
I'm so excited for you.

Today seems to be a day for dose reductions. I see others and I've finally earned one too.

This is a great Sunday!
 
9/2 Charlie AMPS 319 +3 81 +4 43 +5 83 +6 140 +10 499

Rhiannon,

I'm not sure I understand, but hope what you're saying is true (that this is a good thing and that earning a reduction is a good thing, even if things aren't stable in Charlie's numbers at all).

We went out for a few hours in the afternoon after it looked like Charlie's numbers were steadily on the rise.

Now we returned and we got one blood test at +10 that said: HI.

Retested and the second one was at 499.

Holy Bounce, Batman!

I feel a bit guilty as I wonder if Charlie went even lower for those 3 hours we were away? I sure hope not. Maybe this bounce would have happened anyway since she went low earlier today and landed at 43.

Sienne,

After further reflection, you're right. We will reduce her dose to 1.25 since we both work tomorrow and nobody will be home with Charlie during the day to test. I'd be worried that 1.5 might be unsafe with nobody around, so we'll do it the conservative way and take our time with things. Let's try that and see what the numbers come in at for the few times we will be able to test tomorrow. We will not have many numbers tomorrow as we also have an appointment tomorrow evening.
Hopefully Tuesday night will give us some data to base more decisions on.

In any case, we think it's better to stay on the safe side.

Thanks for the advice. We will give 1.25 at PMPS. :smile:
Jill
 
Re: 9/2 Charlie AMPS 319 +3 81 +4 43 +5 83 +6 140 +10 499

I would be sensitive to whether the dose reduction holds. It's hard to know if the +4 number was due to Charlie vomiting. If Charlie's numbers aren't looking particularly good, go back to your last good dose.
Reducing the dose:
  • If kitty drops below 40 (long term diabetic) or 50 (newly diagnosed diabetic) reduce the dose by 0.25 unit. If kitty has a history of not holding reductions well or if reductions are close together... sneak the dose down by shaving the dose rather than reducing by a full quarter unit. Alternatively, at each newly reduced dose... try to make sure kitty maintains numbers in the normal range for seven days before reducing the dose further.
  • If an attempted reduction fails, go right back up to the last good dose.
Click to expand...

Also, can you remind me if Charlie's been tested for conditions that may be related to the vomiting (i.e., pancreatitis, hyperthyroid, kidney issues)?
 
9/2 Charlie AMPS 319 +3 81 +4 43 +5 83 +6 140 +10 499 PMBG H

Hi Sienne,

First vet tested for pancreatitis using an add on to a general blood test that looked at "specific pancreatic lipase". That was done on July 9, 2012.
Charlie's lipase levels came out as +9.8
Vet told us that normal was below 3.5

However, our new vet told us that she believes this particular way of testing for pancreatitis is a little bit like tests Dr's do to see if a kid has A.D.D. (attention deficit disorder). In her opinion, the test shows positives too easily, and many cats are "diagnosed with pancreatitis" due to the current state that they are in with the diabetes. She says that she has seen some examples where a cat can get rid of the pancreatitis.

So, all in all, we don't know. We see that she vomits ever since she started getting insulin. Never once before in her entire life did she vomit. Not even a hairball. We have noted on Charlie's SS every time she vomits, and it seems to be happening every time we change a dose in an upwards direction.

PMBG came out as "Hi" again on our meter (2 times repetitively).
We shot 1.25 this evening.

Jill
 
Re: 9/2 Charlie AMPS 319 +3 81 +4 43 +5 83 +6 140 +10 499

Amylase and lipase levels are not the current standard for testing for pancreatitis. As the vet noted, they are unreliable. I don't know if your vet might be able to contact IDEXX labs. They have an in office test, the Snap fPL, that will indicate either + or - for pancreatitis (kind of like an in home pregnancy test). Routine blood work should have a thyroid level (usually T4) but you also need a free T4 to know if a cat is hyperthyroid. Kidney values are standard on a blood chemistry panel -- or should be.
 
Re: 9/2 Charlie AMPS 319 +3 81 +4 43 +5 83 +6 140 +10 499

I will ask my vet about all this the next time I see her. Maybe the info is here somewhere in Charlie's records but I just don't know how to read it.
Thanks for sharing your wealth of knowledge, Sienne. Hope the weather in Chicago is great today, and hope you're doing well. :smile:
Jill
 
Re: 9/2 Charlie PMPS Hi +2 410

Great greens for Charlie! Just when you think all is lost... We all know how you feel Jill. Those first few months are scary, frustrating, expensive, etc. it seems like nothing is working and is easy to second guess. Charlie is healing. I have cried many times, especially in the beginning. That is the great thing about LL. we are all here, cheering you on and wiping your tears when you need it. Lord knows I've had mine wiped more than I can count. ((((Jill)))).
 
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