9/19-9/20 Asher pmps 130, +2.5 59, +3 49, +6 96, amps 257

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donnahc

donnahc

Member Since 2011
Hi Kids:
Sorry I haven’t been here for a couple days, life gets in the way sometimes.

We do have good news to report tho (touch wood). We have been all in the blues today. :-D :-D :-D amps 159, +3 141, +6 135, pmps 130, shot 4u again.
This will be our 14th cycle on 4 units.
The bounce, or whatever it was seems to have cleared. I hope we can continue on this path! I guess we will hang here at this dose for a bit to see if he stays consistent.

Spreadsheet is updated. Thoughts, suggestions, jokes, anecdotes... warmly accepted :-D

Thanks!
 
Re: 9/19 Asher amps 159, +3 141, +6 135, pmps 130

Hey, Donna -

WOOT!! for BLUE!!!! Hope it's the beginning of fabulous things!!

Have a wonderful evening -

Libby (& Hershey, too!)
 
Re: 9/19 Asher amps 159, pmps 130, +2 81, +2.5 59 !!

Hi kids:
Woot for green too! :mrgreen:

So tonight at +2 we had an 81 and +2.5 is 59. This is a faster drop tonight and I wonder if we are in for a reduction. Since Asher is a “long term diabetic” I am assuming I have to let him hit 40 for a reduction?

I’ll be checking every half hour at the least. Any info you guys can offer would be great. I have LC and HC wet food here, lots of strips, we are set to be up tonight if we have to.
 
Re: 9/19 Asher amps 159, pmps 130, +2 81, +2.5 59 !!

Ok we are at 49 at +3. Do I keep testing till we hit 40 then feed high carb???
 
Re: 9/19 Asher amps 159, pmps 130, +2.5 59, +3 49 !!

Hi donna
at work so brief...
You can feed hc now and test in 30. I'll be on after 10pm
Carl
 
Re: 9/19 Asher amps 159, pmps 130, +2.5 59, +3 49 !!

Thanks Carl, no worries, I just didn’t know if I had to wait to feed, Sienne said something awhile back about letting him hit a certain number to know if he is due for a reduction or not. I’d like to feed sooner than later, but don’t want to screw up any data in the process. Keeping him safe is my first concern obviously. I am gonna test every 15 mins for now.
 
Re: 9/19 Asher amps 159, pmps 130, +2.5 59, +3 49 !!

Found it in the stickies:

Reducing the dose:
If kitty drops below 40 (long term diabetic) or 50 (newly diagnosed diabetic) reduce the dose by 0.25 unit. If kitty has a history of not holding reductions well or if reductions are close together... sneak the dose down by shaving the dose rather than reducing by a full quarter unit. Alternatively, at each newly reduced dose... try to make sure kitty maintains numbers in the normal range for seven days before reducing the dose further.
If an attempted reduction fails, go right back up to the last good dose.

So we’ll be testing often now and I will feed as soon as we know....
 
Re: 9/19 Asher amps 159, pmps 130, +2.5 59, +3 49 !!

+3 plus 15 mins is 47. Watch him hover here for an hour or two nailbite_smile
 
Re: 9/19 Asher amps 159, pmps 130, +2.5 59, +3 49 !!

Yep, we’re on it, thanks Rhiannon. I am about to test again in 5 mins or so.....
 
Re: 9/19 Asher amps 159, pmps 130, +2.5 59, +3 49 !!

3.5 is 44....so we’ll keep testin’ :lol: nailbite_smile
 
Re: 9/19 Asher amps 159, pmps 130, +2.5 59, +3 49 !!

Well, we made it, 38 at +3.75 so I fed and he’s slurpin it up now :-D

Will keep testin and make sure he goes up and is safe tonight.

Thanks everyone!
 
Re: 9/19 Asher amps 159, pmps 130, +2.5 59, +3 49 !!

Thanks, he really digs the Gravy Lover’s food. Kitty Micky D’s :lol:
 
Re: 9/19 Asher amps 159, pmps 130, +2.5 59, +3 49 !!

Hey Donna!

Nice job! OK, here's what I was thinking after seeing the 49 and looking at Asher's SS (while at work and struggling to read it all on a 3.5" phone screen!)

I understand the "long term diabetic" thing, and he's been on insulin for over a year and a half. But only on Lantus for a few months. I may run contrary to the crowd on this, and certainly don't have any first hand experience with Lantus. I'm thinking that at least part of the "long term" thing has to do with how much experience you would have, had Asher been on Lantus the whole time. I'm sure you would have had to deal with the "dive below 50" a dozen times or more by now. But you've only seen sub-50 once prior to this since switching over. So while you may have dealt with feeding the numbers to get them up with Prozinc a few times, you hadn't had to do so much with Lantus. For all I know, the process isn't the same. It's relatively easy to boost him out of a low Prozinc cycle. Pretty much stuff his face and once he's up he stays up. But from watching this quite a few times here, it doesn't seem so "simple" with Lantus and the way it works. They come up, they drop again, etc. That was my first thought.... that you and Asher aren't "used to" this routine yet.
Next thought was how early it happened in the cycle. I think that matters? It seems the earlier it happens, the longer it can go on at least until nadir, and from his SS, he doesn't look like an "early nadir" kitty to me. So I'm thinking "wow, 3 hours till nadir, may as well start slowing things down early", which is why I suggested a bit of HC on the 49, figuring he's got 3 more hours to keep dropping.
My last thought before hitting "submit" was "below 40 doesn't leave much wiggle room" if you aren't really positive how quick the gravy will bring him up, so waiting for below 40 didn't sound like a good idea to me (combined with how early this happened in the cycle).

So, call me a nervous nellie, but I was all for slowing things down early.

Hopefully someone who's done this a few times can let me know why I shouldn't be so nervous!

Carl
 
Re: 9/19 Asher amps 159, pmps 130, +2.5 59, +3 49 !!

Let me first say that a half hour after he hit 38 and I fed high carb, he is now at 67. (so you can exhale now Carl :-D ) You are indeed a sweety checking in on us while at work. I appreciate it a lot!!!!!! :YMHUG:

I know I have to watch him tonight as he may dip low again for sure. I guess what made me less nervous was the last time he went low, Dyana (I think) said to feed him some low carb food, which I never thought of, I always did high carb when Asher went low, on PZI and on Lantus. Well, the low carb brought him up nicely, so I figured in the future if he goes real low, high carb could be counted on to do the job. Dunno. Maybe crazy logic, but it made me a bit more calm about what went down tonight.

That, and I knew I was right with him watching his every move and testing every 15 mins. And I am trying really hard to follow the protocol, and reducing after a drop below 40 is what it says.

I hope I didn’t do anything risky.
 
Re: 9/19 Asher amps 159, pmps 130, +2.5 59, +3 49 !!

At +4.75 we are now at 79. Food (fork full of high carb) was an hour ago and I haven't given any more since then.

We'll keep checkin' :mrgreen:
 
Re: 9/19 Asher amps 159, pmps 130, +2.5 59, +3 49 !!

Donna,
You were there, like you said, watching his every breath and move. So no, "risky" isn't the word I'd use. Ballsy perhaps? :lol:

My uncertainty was if "long term" meant overall, or with Lantus specifically. And I'm with you on the LC vs. HC thing too. I probably encourage using LC to nurse the number up more than I should, but I'd rather see them come up slow and stay in the 50s for a while rather than feed HC every 20 minutes. It seems like when that is done, the kitty climbs too fast, the surf is over too soon. I probably say "test every 30" instead of every 20 too much too. But I think you have to give the food time to catch up to the meter, and if you test every 15 or 20, and keep feeding a spoon of HC every test, you end up over-carbing because the food just hasn't been given time to show up in the BG yet.

What's great is that you know what a spoonful of HC will do, and how fast it'll do it, so the next time this happens, you'll be able to choose the LC/MC/HC option that will best fit the situation.

OK Asher, now hang out in the greens for a few hours and don't drop back down to the 30's, okay?

Carl
 
Re: 9/19 Asher amps 159, pmps 130, +2.5 59, +3 49 !!

Just thought of another question. I think I remember reading that after a low numbers session where you earn a reduction, if the next preshoot is a bounce/high number, you can shoot the current dose, then reduce next cycle.

What is the best thing to do, reduce tomorrow morning, or shoot the bounce with the higher dose then reduce at pm shot?
 
Re: 9/19 Asher amps 159, pmps 130, +2.5 59, +3 49 !!

Oh, meant to say this earlier.... I saw your post at PMPS, looked at the SS, and saw that perfect set of blue numbers all day long, and I thought this could happen tonight or soon anyway. And I saw the dose was 4u, and all I could think was "holy cow, if this was still PZI and Donna asked what the dose should be on a PMPS of 130, and I'd said eh, go with 4u"...... that would probably have been the last time you asked me for any dose advice! :lol: Whole different world now, huh? :-D


Carl
 
Re: 9/19 Asher amps 159, pmps 130, +2.5 59, +3 49 !!

My understanding of the "shoot through the bounce" approach... first it assumes you'll see a big bounce. If you do, then you stick with the current dose, and reduce the next scheduled shot by .25u. I believe that the goal is to cause the bounce to clear more quickly that way? But definitely wait for someone who can explain it better...
It also presumes that if you are going to shoot through the bounce, that you are able to be there to monitor that cycle.
Carl
 
Re: 9/19 Asher amps 159, pmps 130, +2.5 59, +3 49 !!

Yeah on PZI I was told I had BOS and now this is a whole new ball game. :lol:

But I learned quickly here that if I chickened out on shooting the full dose into a lower preshoot, I'd get a yucky cycle after it. So I am feeling my way with some good advice I guess :-D
 
Re: 9/19 Asher amps 159, pmps 130, +2.5 59, +3 49 !!

I think both you and Carl have good points. Much of how you manage any cat on any insulin is based on knowing your cat. My only concern with Asher on Lantus is that you've not had that much experience with steering his numbers. However, you've had ample experience with managing numbers on a different insulin. It largely depends on what you're comfortable with. You're an experienced caregiver. If you had seen dropping numbers and weren't testing it would be an entirely different story.

If Asher is in pink numbers tomorrow, you can shoot through the bounce. If he's in yellows, you don't have enough info to know how quickly Asher is clearing bounces. If you opt to shoot through the bounce on a yellow, just be home to monitor in case he decides to clear the bounce quickly.
 
Re: 9/19 Asher amps 159, pmps 130, +2.5 59, +3 49 !!

I do have to work but not until the afternoon tomorrow. I wouldn't leave here till after +6. So I guess I'll decide if I'll hold the dose for a bounce or reduce right away when I see the number in the morning.
 
Re: 9/19 Asher amps 159, pmps 130, +2.5 59, +3 49 !!

Thanks Sienne. I didn't mean to be too ballsy with this. I felt sure I could bring Asher up quickly if I had to.
Thanks for the confirmation on the bounce/dose reduction too. I'll make the call in the morning when we see his number.
 
Re: 9/19 Asher amps 159, pmps 130, +2.5 59, +3 49 !!

Wow, looks like you and Asher have had a busy evening! All for the right reasons though.

Wonderful to see all the :mrgreen: :mrgreen: ! Congrats on the well-earned reduction!!!
 
Re: 9/19 Asher amps 159, pmps 130, +2.5 59, +3 49 !!

Wowser, Asher Bud! Show me how you did that, would ya? ~Poopy

Way to go, Donna!
 
Re: 9/19 Asher amps 159, pmps 130, +2.5 59, +3 49 !!

+ 5.25 is 72, so we only went down a tiny bit. I fed the smallest amt of food on the tip of a tiny fork, thought he should have a tiny bit more. Will test again, I have the alarm set.

Thanks again everyone!!!
 
Re: 9/19 Asher amps 159, pmps 130, +2.5 59, +3 49 !!

Asher -

good idea =
Not so good idea =
No need for this =

Got it?

Bob
 
Re: 9/19 Asher amps 159, pmps 130, +2.5 59, +3 49 !!

Morning everyone. ~O) ~O) ~O)

A quick note in case anyone is curious, I made sure Asher was back up around 100 last night before I snoozed, and he sleeps on my arm so I checked on him pretty much all night. He purred and snored a lot. Momma got little sleep but it’s worth it as far as I am concerned. This is what naps are for @-) :-D

This morning we woke to 257 amps which I didn’t think was bad at all considering how low he went last night. I decided to reduce right away this morning so we are back at 3.75 units.

I’ll try to get a new post up before I go to work today, if all goes well....

Thanks again everyone for checking on us last night!
 
Re: 9/19-9/20 Asher pmps 130, +2.5 59, +3 49, +6 96, amps 2

Wow what a night for you last night!! I hope you got some rest. How sweet that Asher sleeps on your arm. Not a bad AMPS today considering all those greens. Congratulations on the reducie!!
 
Re: 9/19-9/20 Asher pmps 130, +2.5 59, +3 49, +6 96, amps 2

Wow, Donna, very exciting day for Asher and you and what a great job :mrgreen: That's right; you can always get a nap. Have a great day you two.
 
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