9/18 Gracie PMPS 317 +2 284 +5 216 QUICK QUESTION PLEASE

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Marje and Gracie

Marje and Gracie

Member Since 2010
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OK..we've started. Thank you all for the info in response to my questions. Man...that .5u is hard to see even with
a mag glass...I guess I'm eventually going to have to admit I'm getting older :lol:

So Grace did fine with the shot. I took advice and did a scruff..she's so used to squids that she didn't even notice. One big question..I read the sticky on drawing up the insulin and did exactly as it said BUT I accidentally hit the plunger as I was taking the syringe out of the bottle and I'm afraid a tiny bit of insulin went back in....YIKES...now I'm worried about that silicon going back in. Should I just keep checking insulin and as long as it's clear..I'm ok?

We'll take all the advice we can get!! Gracie does ok with the pokey but she doesn't like it and does a little eek so I don't want to overpoke her. Am I safe to wait two hours on the first day based on building the shed or should I go ahead and check after the first hour? I know we'll be doing alot of testing at first so I don't want to overpoke her but I don't want to undertest. Thanks so much for the help.
 
Re: 9/18 Gracie AMPS 277

Are you using a vial or a pen/cartridge. If you are using the vial, it's not a problem. Actually, it's not that big of a problem if a drop goes back into the pen, either. Lantus is finicky enough that you'll see "floaties" if it's damaged or contaminated.

It's actually OK to shoot air into a vial. The pens/cartridges work on a pressure system which is why you don't want to put air into the container.

I think you're probably fine to wait until +2. Just remember to give Gracie a treat. She'll begin to associate pokes with treats and won't mind at all.
 
Re: 9/18 Gracie AMPS 277

Marjorie said:
... We'll take all the advice we can get!! Gracie does ok with the pokey but she doesn't like it and does a little eek so I don't want to overpoke her. Am I safe to wait two hours on the first day based on building the shed or should I go ahead and check after the first hour? I know we'll be doing alot of testing at first so I don't want to overpoke her but I don't want to undertest. Thanks so much for the help.
Click to expand...


This chart might help you with a curve and spot checks....
You can find in the Lantus forum stickie New To The Group I've included all the links for Onset, Peak, Duration etc.


Learn how YOUR kitty is responding to insulin:
Onset ---> the length of time before insulin reaches the bloodstream & begins lowering blood glucose
Peak/Nadir ---> the lowest point in the cycle
Duration ---> the length of time insulin continues to lower blood glucose

How to do a Curve: you don't have to test every hour. Typically curves are every 2 hours in a 12/12 cycle. Or a mini-curve, about every 3 hours.
Depending on where the numbers are, you may have to re-test frequently and offer food to help steer numbers.

Example of a typical curve:
+0 - PreShot number.
+1 - Usually higher than PreShot number because of the last shot wearing off. May see a food spike in this number.
+2 - Often similar to the PreShot number.
+3 - Lower than the PreShot number, onset has started.
+4 - Lower.
+5 - Lower.
+6 - Nadir/Peak (the lowest number of cycle).
+7 - Surf (hang around the nadir number).
+8 - Slight rise.
+9 - Slight rise.
+10 - Rising.
+11 - Rising (may dip around +10 or +11).
+12 - PreShot number.

Carryover ---> insulin effects lasting past the insulin's official duration
Overlap---> the period of time when the effect of one insulin shot is diminishing & the next insulin shot is taking effect
Insulin Depot ---> (aka "storage shed" in Lantus Land) "spare tank" of insulin, which has yet to be used by the body
More on the Shed ---> Lantus & Levemir Insulin Depot AKA Storage Shed


For the time being, when you are home, try to collect as much as you can..especially if you are not around during the work week...
We do like to suggest early cycle tests, especially if pre-shot is lower than usual...like +1, +2 and +3, as well as the very important +5 and +6 (typically nadir/peak for some kitties)
My other suggestion would be a +9 and a +11 in the AMPS cycle.
As Sienne suggested, you'd be ok to start at +2 and go from there.
 
Re: 9/18 Gracie AMPS 277

WELCOME ABOARD!! What a nice number to start with!

Eventually Gracie will get used to the pokes. What Sienne said about giving treats is a nice bonus for our kitties after testing. Mannie just loves tuna flakes, and freeze dried salmon. It didn't take him too long to accept testing - it has become our one-on one time, and he actually purrs now when I test him. He now knows when test time is, and often I can find him waiting in his spot.

Good luck with everything - nice to see you on the board this morning. I hope all goes well today. Questions - just ask - we are all here to help.
 
Re: 9/18 Gracie AMPS 277

Thank you all. Thanks, Ronnie, for that info....I've read it twice in the stickys but it always helps to keep reading it esp as we are now going through it. So i appreciate the reinforcement. Yes, we are happy that we are starting at 277. We have to keep reminding ourselves of the kitty's note to mom post because we keep checking her; she's a chirper so everytime we hover over her, she chirps like "READ IT AGAIN, MOM". :-D
 
Re: 9/18 Gracie AMPS 277

Welcome Marjorie and Gracie. You've found a wonderful group of people who care dearly about our sugarcats.

I'm relative newbie too, Achilles was diagnosed about a month ago, and this board has been a life saver for me -- and Achilles too. :-D

I'm not in a position to give advice about dosing as I'm still learning as well, but I just wanted to extend a WELCOME!!
 
Re: 9/18 Gracie AMPS 277 +2 330 +4 318

Seems like we are just holding fairly steady...I guess that is normal for first day?

I had a couple questions:
1. On one of the stickys, it said for newbies, not to shoot below 200. I would be surprised if we get there today but just checking before as I would expect her to peak at either +6 or +8.
2. On the hypo instructions, it states that at a very low number (below 40) without symptoms, give a tbsp of caro or other simple sugar. Is that right...a tbsp? Seems like a ton...is there any worry that that much could send her skyrocketing and then we'd have a bounce? I am not expecting this but I am all for "be prepared". It's the old girl scout in me...or is it boy scout? :twisted:
 
Re: 9/18 Gracie AMPS 277 +2 330 +4 318 +6 295 QUESTIONS

Seems like we are just holding fairly steady...I guess that is normal for first day?

I had a couple questions:
1. On one of the stickys, it said for newbies, not to shoot below 200. I would be surprised if we get there today but just checking before as I would expect her to peak at either +6 or +8. So we typically wouldn't see movement in the numbers for 3-5 days?
2. On the hypo instructions, it states that at a very low number (below 40) without symptoms, give a tbsp of caro or other simple sugar. Is that right...a tbsp? Seems like a ton...is there any worry that that much could send her skyrocketing and then we'd have a bounce?
3. What is the best lancet to use? The one that came in my kit seems to let me get the best blood on the first stick but she does "eek" when I stick her and she isn't happy about it (treats and love). But we got some UT 30g and they don't seem to stick as well...I had to stick her twice with those and then milk a little.

Thanks!
 
Re: 9/18 Gracie AMPS 277 +2 330 +4 318 +6 295 QUESTIONS

Hey Marjorie, I don't want you to feel like you're being ignored. I'm sure someone will be along later to answer your questions. I won't address #1, as I'm too new at this and with that in mind, take my answers with a grain of salt. From what I understand, people only give a drop or 2 of karo, not a whole tbsp. As far as the lancets go, I use ReliOn. I have both 26g and 32g. When I first started testing, the 32g wouldn't get me any blood so I had to use the 26g. But as time goes on, Gracie's ears will "learn" to bleed and you shouldn't have much of an issue after a short time.
 
Re: 9/18 Gracie AMPS 277 +2 330 +4 318 +6 295 QUESTIONS

Actually, the "Data Ready" sticky suggests that you don't shoot below 150. However, we would probably coach you to do one of the alternatives that are outlined:
  • Stall - do not feed your cat and wait 15 min and then re-test. Repeat this until you see that the BG numbers are rising.
  • Give a reduced dose (we refer to this as a BCS or "Big Chicken Sh*t" dose).
  • Skip the shot
All of these options have an impact on the shed and/or your shot schedule which need to be taken into consideration.

How much high carb (HC), whether it's Karo or other syrup, or a HC, gravy-laden canned food, depends on your cat and how carb sensitive the cat is. It also depends on where in the cycle these numbers occur and how fast numbers are dropping. There isn't a particular amount that works for everyone in every situation. Gabby had low numbers (in the 20s) the other evening and she probably got 1/2 teaspoon of Karo plus gravy to bump up her numbers.

In the beginning, you may be more successful with a lancet that's a bit thicker -- a 29 or a 28 gauge. Once Gracie's ear learns how to bleed, you may be able to switch to a 30 or 31 gauge. I use a 30 gauge lancet. How well the ear bleeds may also be a function of how warm the ear is.
 
Re: 9/18 Gracie AMPS 277 +2 330 +4 318 +6 295 QUESTIONS

Marjorie, do you have high carb wet food on hand? Something like the Fancy Feast varieties with gravy. That is what we use to steer low number when we need to. Yes, you should have Karo on hand, but in most cases a little gravy from the wet food is all you need. There are some cats who are sensitive to the wheat gluten that is usually in the gravy foods, so those kitties will use a little Karo mixed in with their low carb food.
 
Re: 9/18 Gracie AMPS 277 +2 330 +4 318 +6 295 QUESTIONS

Thank you all for your responses.....Anne...I know you are new too but it is so very kind of you to help us. Thanks to both Sienne and Libby for clarifying for me.

Gracie's BG at +8 is now 338...it was 295 at +6. This is actually the highest number I've seen her with in the last several days (even before the lantus) but then I was testing as often as we are now. Since this is the first day:

1. would the peak have been at 295 or do you not see a peak before they have their shed?
2. if it continues to go up, should I go ahead and shoot at +12 assuming that 295 was the peak?

I'm really not sure what to do since I don't know if she has peaked....I want to be sure I don't overlap her...in other words,
she hasn't peaked yet from her am shot and then a throw a pm shot on her. I know you all will know what to do.

Thank you!! Not sure how I'll get through this first night :!:
 
Re: 9/18 Gracie AMPS 277 +2 330 +4 318 +6 295 +8 338 MORE ?

you don't really need to worry about peaks at this point. Lots of times it's hard to discern a nadir on Lantus cats until they get to a dose that is doing something. Yes, you shoot at +12.
 
Re: 9/18 Gracie AMPS 277 +2 330 +4 318 +6 295 +8 338 MORE ?

Thanks, Libby. And yes...I do have about 8 cans of FF with gravy on hand. We put together our hypo kit yesterday
and have it all together in one place. I hope we never have to use it but it's ready.

OK...so we'll shoot at +12. Sorry to be such a nervous Nellie!
 
Re: 9/18 Gracie AMPS 277 +2 330 +4 318 +6 295 +8 338 MORE ?

No problem. You're asking good questions and thinking things through. That's great!!

If you are not the only person in the house who feeds Gracie, and since Helene hasn't been by, I'm going to steal one of her suggestions. She uses a Sharpie and marks the lids of all of the HC food so it's not mistakenly given as a usual meal. Sometimes, a family member who thinks s/he's doing you a favor has been known to crack open a can of the HC stuff and while Gracie may think she's in heaven, you'll be tearing out your hair and wanting to flog said family member!!
 
Re: 9/18 Gracie AMPS 277 +2 330 +4 318 +6 295 +8 338 MORE ?

and I'll throw in my two cents - I do this too - mark the cans with a sharpie. There never is any doubt what % of carbs I have pulled of the shelf. I will write the % on the can. It helps DH too who just is clueless when it comes to food.

BTW: You've done great today! Good Job!
 
Re: 9/18 Gracie AMPS 277 +2 330 +4 318 +6 295 +8 338 MORE ?

Hi Marjorie and Gracie! Welcome! :mrgreen:

So glad to see you here....and also glad you are asking such great questions! There are a lot of kitties here in LL and we are like a big family! You are welcome to visit other people too..stop in and say hello and see what is going on with everyone if you have the time...

Since there are so many of us, there is a system that helps eliminate some chaos. Each person posts one condo (thread) each day with the numbers for our kitties. We link the previous condo to the first post of the day so if someone wants to see what transpired the day before, it is only a click away! Ech day is linked to the day before and that makes it a lot less confusing to find information.

So, here is your condo from yesterday: viewtopic.php?f=9&t=25253
Hope to see you each and every day....please post any questions that come up, okay? Hope you with both do well here with all the suggestions for all the experienced people here. So happy to see you! :razz:
 
Re: 9/18 Gracie AMPS 277 +2 330 +4 318 +6 295 +8 338 +10 323

ooohhh marjorie! boy scout/girl scout! is it possible i've found someone here who truly understands my desire to be Binks/Dorothy???

um, what's a scout?

Binks

nice job today marjorie...soon gracie will be cattin' around with the gang here...
and thanks for all the questions you're asking...it helps the rest of us newbies pick up info, too...

celi
 
Re: 9/18 Gracie AMPS 277 +2 330 +4 318 +6 295 +8 338 +10 323

Marjorie --

I just noticed on your SS that you're giving Gracie several supplements including duralactin, albalplex, cataplex, and cataplex C. Are you giving these at the recommendation of your vet? I'm raising this because I don't know if you've taken a look at the ingredients. They contain a range of ingredients such as sugar (in a variety of forms including honey), flour, starch, rice, etc. that aren't terribly well suited to a diabetic cat's diet.
 
Re: 9/18 Gracie AMPS 277 +2 330 +4 318 +6 295 +8 338 +10 323

pretty much expected it would be an uneventful day...today anyway.
love that your keeping that dear mom letter handy.

lantus peeps, this girl is totally 100% committed and understandably obsessing about now so please keep her grounded if possible. we've been talking on the phone ever since she got her kit and a more dedicated newbie i've never seen. (well, except heidi/doodles maybe)

hope your not planning to poke all night long :lol:

lori
and tomtom too!
 
Re: 9/18 Gracie AMPS 277 +2 330 +4 318 +6 295 +8 338 +10 323

Wow you guys are busy tonight!! But it's so durn comforting as we come up on our next shot. I'm beat and still have all night to check her. Any recommendations on that.....I know...Lori thinks I'm crazy for wanting to be up checking every two hours but yeah, girl, I'll probably do it. Let me see if I can answer a few things to help you help me help Gracie.

First...thanks for letting me know about referencing my previous condos but where do I find that info so I can do it tomorrow?
Second...there are only two of us in the house feeding cats and the HC foods are in a special cupboard with all the other hypo things. My hubby is very hands on so he knows what Gracie can and can't have.
Third...yes, I've talked to the vet about the supplements and what's in them; it's the first thing I asked when Grace's BG went up. She specializes in nutrition; she says the quantities are extremely minute esp at the doses Gracie is giving but I'll bring it up with her again. The bad thing is she really needs a few of them to keep her IC from cropping up and as I read someone in the FDMB say "diabetes is easier to treat than IC".
Fourth..Binks, really, Gracie says you are a riot, boy. And who's Dorothy?

Ok...time for our PMPS reading and dinner and shot.

Thanks everyone. I'll be back in a while with that number.
 
Re: 9/18 Gracie AMPS 277 +2 330 +4 318 +6 295 +8 338 +10 323

it'll probably be a boring # but you said you like peaceful uneventful so.....
in a few days you'll likely see some action.
that's why you should'nt burn out the kitties ears just yet. she may grow to hate it if you overdo now. try one test at like +5 and leave it.
IMHO...lantus peeps what say you?
 
Re: 9/18 Gracie AMPS 277 +2 330 +4 318 +6 295 +8 338 +10 323

First...thanks for letting me know about referencing my previous condos but where do I find that info so I can do it tomorrow?
Second...there are only two of us in the house feeding cats and the HC foods are in a special cupboard with all the other hypo things. My hubby is very hands on so he knows what Gracie can and can't have....
Click to expand...

when you log in tomorrow, scroll down the list and find Gracie's Saturday thread/condo.
From there you will be able to link the http addy to a new thread/condo.

Good plan on the "special place" for the goodies :lol:
 
Re: 9/18 Gracie AMPS 277 +2 330 +4 318 +6 295 +8 338 +10 323

+5?? And I'm supposed to sleep??? I'm so trusting....

Man...I just gave her a shot and it's so hard to see the bubbles in that little syringe. I hope I gave her enough.

Sorry...I'm a little electronically challenged on this...I think I need more help on how to link yesterday's post...do I just cut and paste out of the browser line? Thanks for your patience.
 
Re: 9/18 Gracie AMPS 277+2 330+4 318+6 295+8 338+10 323+12 317

it helps to have two windows opened.
go to your previous day, copy and paste the http and post a reply in your current thread and paste it in your text box.
 
Re: 9/18 Gracie AMPS 277+2 330+4 318+6 295+8 338+10 323+12 317

lantus peeps..considering the first set of #'s does gracie need to be tested all nite?
just asking?
 
Re: 9/18 Gracie AMPS 277+2 330+4 318+6 295+8 338+10 323+12 317

lori and tom said:
lantus peeps..considering the first set of #'s does gracie need to be tested all nite?
just asking?
Click to expand...

good idea to get in at least two numbers, in my opinion,
one of them being the before bedtime test.
 
Re: 9/18 Gracie AMPS 277+2 330+4 318+6 295+8 338+10 323+12 317

Marjorie --

Your +12 is actually your PMPS. That's how we refer to this number. (Unless, you are skipping the shot or delaying the shot in which cast the shot clock continues from the previous cycle, i.e., +12, +13, +14). If you shoot, the test before that shot is your Pre-Shot #.

You don't need to get up every 2 hours. I would get a +2 and a before bed test. If you want to stay up, feel free. I just don't think you should be sleep deprived.
 
Re: 9/18 Gracie AMPS 277+2 330+4 318+6 295+8 338+10 323+12 317

especially since the real action could take place tomorow nite! and by 'real action' i mean any significant movement.
 
9/18 Gracie AMPS 277+2 330+4 318+6 295+8 338+10 323 PMPS+12

I ran out of space in the subject line and couldn't put the PMPS so I was hoping it would be clear from my SS but Gracie says "she's just a mommy bean so...." I just moved some things around so hopefully it will be in there.

Ok...so I'll check her at +2 and +5 and call it a nite unless her numbers are down; of course, earlier today, it was +6 when her numbers were down a bit but that would be 1:30 am ...which is ok...I can do that. Would that be better? +2 and +6? Thanks!
 
Re: 9/18 Gracie PMPS 317

i'll let someone more experienced field that...
holy crap...now there's a bunch of em here!

get some good rest...you did wonderfully today!

celi & binks

just curious...what time zone are you in?
 
Re: 9/18 Gracie PMPS 317 +2 284

Thanks, Celi. It's been a stressful day...esp poking my little baby girl. But she must forgive me cause she curled up next to me for
a nap and purred her little self to sleep and let me rub her ears gently. I know they must be sore.

We're in AZ so we're on Pac time right now. I definitely need some winks but I can sleep Sun while my husband mans the ship and
watches Grace in between pokeys.

I'm hoping that if her AMPS is good tomorrow (like today) and I check her +2 then maybe I can skip the +4 and give her a break.
 
Re: 9/18 Gracie PMPS 317 +2 284

Gracie has dropped to 216 at +5 and we are exhausted. Is it safe to leave her the rest of the night? It's almost 1 am here and we'd be up by 7 am. Thanks to anyone who is still up.
 
Just a thought, you don't have to stay up til +5/+6 at nite, unless you have no problem calling it a late nite.
Weekends are good for that - to a point.

Remember you don't want to get sleep deprived @-)
If +5 is too late for you, +3 or +4 would be ok, plus leaving some foods out for Gracie
 
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