9/18 Atlas, PmPS 404...so dose? Up, down, hold?

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Beth & Atlas

Member Since 2010
Sorry no yesterday's condo here. viewtopic.php?f=9&t=25096 9/16

It was a crazy kind of busy morning and day, yesterday. Up and out the door for a extra early catsit, then home to feed & test(you all know I'm an early bird here), and then communicate with shelter regarding a potential adopter, then off to TBP....

Oh yeah...feed, test, and shoot yesterday too.

Well I took Libby's advice from the other day and we only had one shot at the doscrease and returned to the lower level. I am still being very frustrated with this so called bounce effect. Last nights number got below the 200 mark and seemed to be holding nicely...then this morning I wake to this god awful number!

I am trying to help with "training his liver," by providing smaller meals etc. So we're feeding 1/2 can FF upon rising and then the other 1/2 at +2.5ish. Atlas still gobbles it all down in one sit, so leaving food out isn't beneficial. I tried freezing it and he just sits there licking the frozen food cube until it is gone too. I guess he doesn't understand the idea of defrost...

So, that still leaves a wide gap during the day which there is no food available. At night we're doing the same sort of feeding schedule with a supper time, dinner time, bedtime, and midnight snack. Yes, I set my alarm clock for the 1am wake up call, but Attie is getting wise to this and is now waking me up to get his snack. :roll:

I am really hoping to get him "regulated" and on a routine that will make it easier for his new home, but it looks like Attie isn't going to be pressured in to doing anything of the sort. :?
 
Re: 9/18 Atlas, Bouncie 492 AMPS

Wow...your spreadsheet looks a lot like mine...bounces and reds, except that I'm trying to reduce from an initial waaaay too high dose. HATE the bounce!

My Chester's doing pretty good with an automatic feeder for those small meals throughout the day. Mind has two timed compartments. It's difficult, however, with multiple cats. I don't like keeping him separated, but on the days that I really know he needs an extra meal or two (like yesterday when we had to get out the Karo) I do separate him so that I know he's the one who eats it.

Best of luck with the bounce.

Jaye and Chester
 
Re: 9/18 Atlas, Bouncie 492 AMPS

One thing you can do is add the link to your last condo to your first post and call is "Two days ago" or "09/16" that way if someone wants to quickly go back through your past condos, they don't have to search through the entire forum.

I also use frozen FF and a timed feeder. I feed three 1/4 can FF meals about an hour apart and then put out a can or two of frozen FF (not in the can, I freeze them in these Rubbermaid 1/2 cup containers ), I also set my 2 compartment feeder to give him a meal a couple hours before his nadir and also about the time I think his nadir is. I have two cats, so I sometimes leave out a lot of food. Sometimes it's all eaten, and sometimes it isn't when I return home from work at +12.

Hope you have a nice Caturday!
 
Re: 9/18 Atlas, Bouncie 492 AMPS

Jaye and Chester said:
Wow...your spreadsheet looks a lot like mine...bounces and reds, except that I'm trying to reduce from an initial waaaay too high dose. HATE the bounce!
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The whole bounce effect is driving me bonkers. What I don't understand is why he is doing this even when the drop is not, is NOT, that big? We're headed into our third week off of Humilin N and his liver should be starting to accept this new strategy? The first few weeks I can understand his panicky liver because we had some really big swings on N. But last nights drop doesn't look all that severe to me. Why the bounce? And we fed at 1am too.
 
Re: 9/18 Atlas, Bouncie 492 AMPS

If you don't already have it, you will learn patience :lol: my friend.
 
Re: 9/18 Atlas, Bouncie 492 AMPS

morning , guys!

blue, i admire your persistence...you rock!


celi
hey, Attie- we're heading over to Tess' place cuz her bean's gonna take off...come with us!!

binks
 
Re: 9/18 Atlas, Bouncie 492 AMPS

Dyana said:
If you don't already have it, you will learn patience :lol: my friend.
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Ah yes! This is so true! I too have a very bouncy boy - we've been able to subdue that somewhat by altering feeding times. It has taken a long time to get there, so yes: patience is needed.

I hope Atlas's bounce clears quickly - better numbers today. Good luck!
 
Re: 9/18 Atlas, Bouncie 492 AMPS

In the beginning, I had NO patience with this at all and Chester was the one who had to deal with the consequences. I changed doses pretty quickly, being too influenced by the bounces and highs and not the lows. Now that we're lowering his dose, I'm learning to hold things for a lot longer than a day! In fact, last week he just seemed to be creeping higher and higher. My vet and I were talking about raising the dose that very evening because of consistent 300 and 400's). I had been on the dose for 8 cycles I believe, so an increase would have been allowed.

However, when I got home from work, literally minutes after we had made the decision to raise the dose, he threw me a pmps of 116! Kept the dose for that evening but paid for it with lower numbers than he had had in awhile and a HUGE bounce the next morning! If we would have raised his dose it would have been a HORRIBLE night! Since then (just last week) I've had to lower the dose twice due to low numbers.

Patience? It's a new word in my vocabulary!
 
Re: 9/18 Atlas, Bouncie 492 AMPS

I truly understand your frustration. Take a look at Gabby's SS. Not only would Gabby bounce, she would plummet. She is rather prone to drama. I would, however, point out that you have been using Lantus for less than 3 weeks. I think you want to change Rome in a day. You are expecting to change your cat's physiology/metabolism in a very sort period of time. All of those metabolic pathways are working the way they are for a reason -- to keep the body safe. That's all Atlas' panicky liver is doing -- keeping him safe. The more time Atlas spends in lower numbers, the more his liver will once again recognize those are safe numbers.

Is there a typo on 9/16 re. the PM dose? It looks like you shot 1.75 and then went back to 1.50u? If you did shift the dose, it may have contributed to some bounciness. It may be time to consider increasing the dose.
 
Re: 9/18 Atlas, Bouncie 492 AMPS

Sienne and Gabby said:
Is there a typo on 9/16 re. the PM dose? It looks like you shot 1.75 and then went back to 1.50u? If you did shift the dose, it may have contributed to some bounciness. It may be time to consider increasing the dose.
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No, there is no typo. I did that, I thought it was time for a dose increase too. Unfortunately I changed it after receiving conflicting information.

Which I was told that it could take a full 72 hours after a bounce to ...clear on Lantus? I know that for Humilin N, but was surprised to here that about Lantus too. Especially since we're "bouncing" every 2 days or pretty much the minute it clears? And we're not entering anywhere near hypo numbers. Then I get admonished for changing the dose too soon after a bounce, yet...ugh? confused_cat

So I am being even more confused and Atlas is suffering for it with prolonged hyperglycemic episodes. How am I supposed to know when to increase the dose? He's not dropping low enough for decrease?

The more time Atlas spends in lower numbers, the more his liver will once again recognize those are safe numbers.
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At this point he is spending 2/3's of his time in high numbers? And this is causing me to believe the dose is just way too low or what we're seeing as bounce is actually resistance.
 
Re: 9/18 Atlas, 492 AMPS, +5 465, decided to get off the roof!

Look who decided to come on down to the second floor!!! Whew!!!!

Hold this dose another cycle?

PS...he has a nose for chicken like I've never seen. Even when they are still frozen...
 
Re: 9/18 Atlas, 492 AMPS, +5 465, decided to get off the roof!

Hi Blue--The thing is that here we have a mantra which is Patience and Consistancy--That is what works with lantus--
FORGET WHAT You know about any other insulin, especially N! Moonie was on N when we came here, & did poorly-Now she is more or less regulated, & is healthy & Happy!
You cant expect your cat to get better quickly, that what the patience is for, keeping your cat on a dose for 5-7 days to see if that is the correct dose for him, is the consistancy...Nothing happens quickly here, it does take time, and a lot is trial & error--
It takes time for you to find the correct dose, took Moonie years...and that changes too.
Just make your goal a healthy & happy cat--Not the numbers game!
Look At the Whole CAT--Is he feeling well, 5 P's, coat looks better, walking better, more affectionate, eating well?...These are the things that also count!

You are doing a GREAT job here, this is not an easy task caring for an FD cat, as you know--But this time you have all of us to help you here!!
Sending Good Numbers & Healthy Boy vibes to Atlas!! And HUGS to you!! Sounds like you need them today! :YMHUG: :YMHUG: :YMHUG:
 
Re: 9/18 Atlas, 492 AMPS, +5 465, decided to get off the roof!

Roni and Moonie said:
Look At the Whole CAT--Is he feeling well, 5 P's, coat looks better, walking better, more affectionate, eating well?...These are the things that also count!

You are doing a GREAT job here, this is not an easy task caring for an FD cat, as you know--But this time you have all of us to help you here!!
Sending Good Numbers & Healthy Boy vibes to Atlas!! And HUGS to you!! Sounds like you need them today! :YMHUG: :YMHUG: :YMHUG:
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Well, I could tell when the numbers finally broke this afternoon...Attie was chasing the MudCat all around the family room.

I do tend to be overly intense about this as we've come so far since our beginning and with switching insulin, I hate too lose any bit of progress.

Actually, I should be having a decent day. I had several pet sits this weekend, earned my Red Cross Animal First Aid Certification, and even had time to nap in the backyard sunshine...

and now the added bonus of Attie getting down off that darn red roof inn! :smile:
 
I would go up, he has had time to clear by now. He could be bouncing off the blue, but if he's bouncing off blue then he needs more juice.

We have observed around here that cats who start out on N or Vetsulin or PZI often take longer to "unbounce" than cats who started on Lantus. Lucy was on PZI for 7 months and it took FOREVER for her to stop bouncing. Sienne's Gabby has just started to unbounce. Mocha is still bouncing. On the other hand, Helene's Tizon stopped bouncing pretty quickly (PZI kitty). Pat has one of each - Raja stopped bouncing and went OTJ quickly, and Shadow is still working on it (both Vetsulin kitties).
 
Thanks Libby,

you are my voice of reason and understanding!

I am sooooo very glad you are here.

:YMHUG:


We are only 30 minutes late to up the dose. He got his 1.5u on time so a bit more now should be oK.
 
Re: 9/18 Atlas, Bouncie 492 AMPS

mybuddybinks said:
hey, Attie- we're heading over to Tess' place cuz her bean's gonna take off...come with us!!

binks
Click to expand...


My bean is makin' roast chicken...sorry gonna miss your fun...but you ain't tasted my bean's roasted chicken! ~~~Attie
 
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