9/17CharlieAM283+2 119 +4 40+6 133+10 313 PMPS 434 +4.5 344

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Re: 9/17 Charlie AMPS 283 +2 119

Is it normal that Charlie has SUCH steep drops between AMPS and +2? I'm leaving for work now and find this a bit strange. She's now on a lower dose and still, she's down to 118 in only 2 hours.

Hope she'll be OK while I'm gone today. I'm a bit worried leaving here.

The only thing we've done differently is we started regulating her food yesterday. Yesterday she got exactly 200 grams, with 50 of those being before bed.

She didn't eat very much this morning so I guess that could be part of it? Just now, she drank an entire bowl of water with "viyo recuperation" vitamin replenishment in it (before her test). If I would have known she was going to drop that much I would have withheld the liquid so she stayed hungry.

She did not even touch her tuna treat when I did the blood test at +2. That is a FIRST.

I thought lantus was not supposed to have steep declines. Feel a bit like we're back in caninsulin land.

Jill
 
Re: 9/17 Charlie AMPS 283 +2 119

Hi Jill

From her SS, this morning's drop looks to me like a bounce clearing.

Lantus can create those famous flat beautiful curves, but it tends only to start doing that when a cat is regulated, or very close :smile: Until then, alas, lots and lots of kitties bounce and then drop as those bounces clear. It's normal to see those bounces, and the drops when the bounces clear - those drops can be quite fast, as is happening this morning with Charlie. When she's better regulated, you'll hopefully see less and less bouncing and bounce-clear dropping.

When do you *have to* leave? This drop needs to be slowed, and ideally you'd be able to get another couple of BG checks to make sure Charlie's slowed down and stays safe... Have you fed that (+2)? It is important to get some food into her when she's dropping like this...

Jane
 
Re: 9/17 Charlie AMPS 283 +2 119

Decided to work from home as I really don't want her at risk. I will test again in 5 mins and feed if the drop is lower. I haven't fed after +2 yet. Food is out but she is not interested. She is hiding behind the couch right now.

Jill
 
Re: 9/17 Charlie AMPS 283 +2 119

Ok. If she's still dropping at the next test, it really will be important to get her to eat... Can you syringe-feed, if you have to? Any treats you could crumble over the food? (Have you ever tried parmesan? Our Magpie *loves* that!)

Hang in there! Sorry your day plan was changed! And sorry Charlie's hiding - I hope she'll feel better soon!!
Hugs
Jane
 
Re: 9/17 Charlie AMPS 283 +2 119

Just tested at +3 and she is at 3.4 (61).
I fed some LC beef with a bit of maple syrup. She ate a tiny amount so I will test again in awhile. Test in 15 mins or 30?

Jill
 
Re: 9/17 Charlie AMPS 283 +2 119 +3 61

I'd test in 30 to see if the food helped slow her down by then. Do you also have regular (canned) MC and HC in the house? For next time, you could try something a bit gentler than syrup to slow a drop. No worries though, ok? Let's just see where she is at the next test!

You did well to recognize this drop!
Hugs
Jane
 
Re: 9/17 Charlie AMPS 283 +2 119 +3 61

I used last of the MC & HC that I had on hand. Need to pick some up & still need to figure out what brands are available here.
 
Re: 9/17 Charlie AMPS 283 +2 119 +3 61

Hi Jill,
It's great that you're able to work from home, today.

Do you have an update on those BGs? I hope she's decided she's hungry, now.
 
Re: 9/17 Charlie AMPS 283 +2 119 +3 61

Dyana said:
Hi Jill, It's great that you're able to work from home, today. Do you have an update on those BGs? I hope she's decided she's hungry, now.
Click to expand...

Hi Dyana :smile: Charlie was at 40 at the last test and willingly ate LC with a bit of syrup - Jill caught me on FB. She's updating the SS now and will post right afterwards.
Jane
 
Re: 9/17 Charlie AMPS 283 +2 119 +3 61 +4 40 +4.5 61

Hi guys,

Sorry for the delayed update. This has been a rough morning. Recap:

AMPS: 283
+2: 119
+3: 61
Fed LC + Maple syrup (Charlie ate a tiny bit).
+4: 40
Fed LC + Maple syrup (Charlie ate the entire bowl)
+4.5: 61

In the middle there, I got 3 calls from work that I had to take, plus major PC issues.
Broke down and had 2 cappuccinos despite my fragile tummy. Something had to give me the energy to get through this morning!

Monday, Monday....

Jill
 
9/17 Charlie AMPS 283 +2 119 +3 61 +4 40 +4.5 61

Question:

Does this dramatic drop to 40 earn Charlie a dose reduction to 1 unit?

Jill
 
Re: 9/17 Charlie AMPS 283 +2 119 +3 61 +4 40 +4.5 61

Looking at Charlie's SS, yes, IMHO she has earned a reduction to 1.0u with that dip into the 40s. Congratulations! Let's see if the others agree.

IF it shouldn't hold, you can always go back up and try again after a while. But fingers are crossed that you won't have to do that!

Hugs
Jane
 
Re: 9/17 Charlie AMPS 283 +2 119 +3 61 +4 40 +4.5 61

Thanks for the dosing advice. We will reduce to 1 unit if others agree, as you said. We will be away for a few hours tonight so that seems prudent for that reason as well.

I hesitate to celebrate the reduction though, at least until I see that it holds and know we don't have to increase again. Still, it makes me more comfortable knowing I wont be giving her an amount that will make her dip to 40. That was quite a shocker this morning.

If the 1 unit shouldn't hold, we can decide at that time to go back up again, like you said.

Thanks for your help this morning.
Jill
 
Re: 9/17 Charlie AMPS 283 +2 119 +3 61 +4 40 +4.5 61

I was wondering what happened to you.

I'm glad Charlie decided she was hungry. It's good to know that she'll eat when she needs to.

Congratulations on the reduction. You can go with 1.00 unit, tonight.
 
Re: 9/17 Charlie AMPS 283 +2 119 +3 61 +4 40 +4.5 61

She's a smart kitty. I can pretty much watch her react when it's needed. Just prior to her final dramatic drop, she was at ease resting on the balcony. Once the drop came, she heard me warming the rice sock in the kitchen and came running, as if to say, "Test and Tuna, Jill!"

That's a plan for the 1 unit tonight. This kitty just never stops throwing us curve balls, I tell you.

I am SO HAPPY I made a call to work from home today.

Jill
 
Re: 9/17 Charlie AMPS 283 +2 119 +3 61 +4 40 +4.5 61

charliesmom said:
I'm not sure if we should celebrate anything, as she's still nowhere near regulated, but if reductions can be done and can stick, that will make us of course very happy.

Will wait to see what people say for tonight's PMPS advice. I'm leaning towards reducing to 1 unit. We will also be away for a few hours tonight.

Jill
Click to expand...

My congratulations were due to the earned reduction. That's customary here in LL. Any and all progress is met with support and congratulations.

You have my input and Dyana's input already. More will likely follow as others come online. Good luck with the new dose.
 
Re: 9/17 Charlie AMPS 283 +2 119 +3 61 +4 40 +4.5 61

Hi Jane. Just reworded that one and edited it as when I re-read it, the tone was not one that I intended. Sorry if that somehow came across in a weird way.
Think it's clear now what we need to do.

You're right. I will celebrate all the little victories. I take that back too!
 
Re: 9/17 Charlie AMPS 283 +2 119 +3 61 +4 40 +4.5 61

Congrats on the decrease! Boy, yeah, glad you stayed home. You're lucky that you can do that if you need to. That's something I worry about - scary how those little four-leggers throw us such surprises. I'm glad all is well and hope the ~O) ~O) didn't bother your belly too much.
 
Re: 9/17 Charlie AMPS 283 +2 119 +3 61 +4 40 +4.5 61

Jill --

Taking the reduction is a good plan. When you see a drop between your pre-shot and +2, especially if the drop is into double digits, I would think about testing every 30 min. This will give you greater control over the cycle.

Jane et al. said:
Charlie was at 40 at the last test and willingly ate LC with a bit of syrup - Jill caught me on FB. She's updating the SS now and will post right afterwards.
Click to expand...
I would also note that we encourage all dose related issues be discussed on this forum. It allows for anyone who's a member of FDMB to provide input and it helps to counterbalance a well intentioned comment that may not be accurate by giving others an opportunity to correct misinformation. The webmaster of the site is not supportive of off-board advising for that reason.
 
Re: 9/17 Charlie AMPS 283 +2 119 +3 61 +4 40 +4.5 61

Sienne and Gabby said:
Jane et al. said:
Charlie was at 40 at the last test and willingly ate LC with a bit of syrup - Jill caught me on FB. She's updating the SS now and will post right afterwards.
Click to expand...
I would also note that we encourage all dose related issues be discussed on this forum. It allows for anyone who's a member of FDMB to provide input and it helps to counterbalance a well intentioned comment that may not be accurate by giving others an opportunity to correct misinformation. The webmaster of the site is not supportive of off-board advising for that reason.
Click to expand...

Sienne: There was NO off-board dose advising. Jill messaged me asking me to come over and look at the condo and Charlie's numbers at present due to the drop. I am aware of Rebecca's totally valid stance on off-board advising, which I fully support and share, and can be seen advocating all over FDMB. And that is why my response to Jill on FB was to move her request to her condo, as has always been my response.

Jane
 
Re: 9/17 Charlie AMPS 283 +2 119 +3 61 +4 40 +4.5 61

Fully agree and as you can probably tell, we usually get input from a number of sources before making decisions on dosing. In this case, I think Jane even mentioned on the board "let's see what the others think". That seemed quite clear to me that we should wait a bit for others to chime in.

Keep in mind that with this time zone, its still only 1:45pm. There is still more time between now and our PMPS in case anyone else wants to comment on dosing advice. The only off board dosing advice that I get is that from our vet. We're still happy with our current vet, even though she recently advised us to jump Charlie up to 2 units, and that was a MAJOR fail.

Still, that said, recently I met someone in Amsterdam whose diabetic cat just died. This woman cared for her cat for 5 years. She referred me to a vet office in Amsterdam (Dierenkliniek Europaplein) that specializes in diabetes, has 4 vets on call, and uses lantus. She told me that if you pay 300 Euros per year for a contract with them, you can call or email them daily with any dosing questions. I'm not sure it'd be perfect, but I'm considering switching vets again, or at least visiting them to better understand how this works.

We have been very thankful for the support given by the board. However, there have also been times when the board has crashed or people weren't available to answer questions in a pinch. People have lives and do this voluntarily, so this is completely understandable. However, we sometimes feel a bit helpless as we're on our own here and do not speak Dutch. Plus vet offices generally are not open evenings and weekends, and our little Charlie drama queen likes to throw curve balls when they're least expected.

So I'm thinking this other vet office may be a good option for us to consider, and posts to the board can then supplement that? I'm not sure what to do yet, to be honest.

For now, thanks, Sienne, for the advice to test every 30 minutes if we "see a drop between your pre-shot and +2, especially if the drop is into double digits". The challenge to that is that normally, we will only be able to test at AMPS and at +1, as we both work and need to be there by 9am. Today was a fluke. I waited to go in a bit late as I wanted to get a +2 (taking your advice from the other day). Then I got the shocker of the drop.

Thankfully, there was at least 1 person on the board in our timezone to "come to the rescue". Thanks for that, Jane. I think sometimes a facebook ping is even faster than this board due to technical features being more advanced.

Thanks also to Dyana who chimed in earlier right at the perfect moment.

Have a good day, ladies.
 
Re: 9/17 Charlie AMPS 283 +2 119 +3 61 +4 40 +4.5 61

"Ping" :lol: I LOVE that word!

You did great, Jill. That vet clinic sounds interesting!

Let's see where Miss Charlie goes from here! (I think Luca has a crush on her.)

Hugs,
Jane
 
Re: 9/17 Charlie AMPS 283 +2 119 +3 61 +4 40 +4.5 61

I'll add to the Congratulations!
I'm so glad you caught this today, Jill.
Progress is always preferred.

Hope Charlie can get a surf going in those healing numbers!
btb for me.
 
Re: 9/17 Charlie AMPS 283 +2 119 +3 61 +4 40 +4.5 61

Jill --

Is it feasible to adjust shot time so you can get a +2 test? I realize that may not work with regard to your PM shot time but it's a thought.
 
Re: 9/17CharlieAMPS 283 +2 119 +3 61 +4 40 +4.5 61 +6 133 +8

Hi guys .. wow, what a morning you have had! Nice catch on bringing charlie up and congrats on the dose reduction .. hopefully there are no more wild drops with the new dose .. have a great day!
 
Re: 9/17CharlieAMPS 283 +2 119 +3 61 +4 40 +4.5 61 +6 133 +8

Jill

I owe you an apology because I could have helped you catch that drop. I saw you come on and post just as I was headed for bed. What I should have done was to take just a few seconds to look at Charlie's SS and tell you to watch for an active cycle because she was coming down from last night.

We teach you to get lots of data but once you have it, you have to know how to read it. When a kitty is clearing a bounce in the previous cycle and the numbers are dropping PLUS you add the impact of the current shot, it's a clue that you might have an active cycle. Im glad you remembered that we urge everyone to get a +2. Well done! But I think we should go a step further and when she's dropping into her PS, it's probably a good idea to also get a +1.

Great job controlling the curve and getting her up.

I know the time change is difficult and the new vet might be handy to have but I bet they still have limited hours on responding to emails, etc. If you do switch, I'd try to have a detailed conversation about protocol. Charlie is starting to show improvement. We have a great track record here :-D I have not heard of a vet yet who deals with the volume of FD kitties that we do.

Hope your day is a little quieter. Good luck on the reduction.
 
Re: 9/17CharlieAM283+2 119 +4 40+6 133+10 313 PMPS 434 +4.5

Charlie climbed right back up there, huh?
But the action she's been seeing is significant and we always learn more.
Charlie's gonna get there.
 
Re: 9/17CharlieAM283+2 119 +4 40+6 133+10 313 PMPS 434 +4.5

Thanks for your optimism guys. We're making baby steps, I guess. Every little bit counts.
Jill
 
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