9/16 Tibbs amps 306

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tibbs5

Member Since 2014
so am i correct . 1 more cycle and if the nadir is high i increase to 2 units? and i did a midcycle on the 9/15 pm cycle at +5 and it was 320 . not on spreadsheet yet so it was also still high

also there was a suggestion of maybe a "detox". stopping insulin because of food change and starting again or should i just increase? thanks
 
Re: 9/16 Tibbs amps 306 increase?

Hi Nadine, I only see one mid cycle check on Tibb's spreadsheet at this dose in addition to the one you just mentioned. Without at least one other check per cycle, it's hard to say what Tibbs is doing. Neko's earned her first reduction (below 50) starting at AMPS 430 and had zoomed up by end of cycle. Getting at least one test per cycle will tell us whether Tibb's is going low and bouncing (which means less insulin is needed) or is always high (needs more insulin). Could you get one other test during the day today and one tonight? That might give us enough data to make a suggestion.

By the way, there is no such thing as an insulin detox. For cats that have had ketones and DKA, a suggestion to go without insulin puts the cats life at risk. The formula for ketones is infection + not enough food + not enough insulin. You can control the insulin.
 
Re: 9/16 Tibbs amps 306 increase?

One other question, have you gotten a ketone test lately? It'd be a good idea to try to get at least one a day while he's in higher numbers (as far as we know).
 
Re: 9/16 Tibbs amps 306 increase?

ok Wendy
thanks. yes i can get those tests done on both cycles today. i have been checking ketones and he is still negative. eating, playing all good. i will post when i get those numbers. thanks again.
nadine
 
Re: 9/16 Tibbs amps 306 increase?

Good news on the ketones. Could you note that in the SS too? We've had a couple other kitties here lately with DKA history and showing ketones so it's top of mind lately.
 
Re: 9/16 Tibbs amps 306 increase?

Hi Nadine -

Another thing to keep in mind is that a kitty's nadir can change - there is no guarantee that it will be exactly in the middle of the cycle. For example, my Trix used to drop by +2 and usuallyl surfed there through most of the cycle. When she dropped, she dropped early. Other kitties drop late. And on top of that, each kitty reserves the right to shuffle around when they nadir! So more than one mid-cycle spot check, whenever you can do, can shed a lot of light about how Tibb's is responding. Random spot checks are very helpful!

I do agree with Wendy...I would NOT stop Tibbs' insulin at this point. Just keep monitoring and gather as much data as you can to see what's what, and that will make it easier to figuer out what to do about his dose.
 
Re: 9/16 Tibbs amps 306 increase?

when people talk about stopping the kitty's insulin, my heart always stops. punkin was a high dose kitty - he had acromegaly - and when we got here he was on 3u of Lantus, i thought. Turned out that we were using the wrong syringes (from the Prozinc syringes we'd started with), which made punkin's dose more like 7.5u. What if people had seen his high numbers on 3u and suggested dropping him back to 1u to restart him? Weeks and weeks longer he'd have been left without the amount of insulin he needed.

somehow people get the idea that all cats should respond to 0.5u or 1.0u or maybe 1.5u, but when it gets over that sometimes i'll see people suggest dropping the dose. I have no idea where that comes from, but it isn't based in science. the thing is that cats need such a variety of doses - even a non-high dose kitty might need 5 or 6 units per shot. If there is an infection or some kind of inflammation, IBD, hyper thyroid, pancreatitis, etc., in the picture that can really increase the dosage needs. Sometimes the cat has Glucose Toxicity from spending too long in high numbers. That causes a need for even higher doses to get the cat's blood sugar down.

There is nothing in Tibbs' spreadsheet to say his dose is too high. More likely it's too low. Getting those mid-cycle tests will answer the question for you.

There is a weight calculator on the Tight Regulation Protocol that helps with a starting dose, but from the starting dose, we just move on. How much insulin a cat needs is incredibly individual. Right now we have people posting in the TR forum whose cats need one drop, all the way to Cobb, who is our current Big Gulper at 21units per shot. There is absolutely everything in between.
 
Re: 9/16 Tibbs amps 306 increase?

thanks Julie.
yes after doing alot of research i see that, especially with having had dka, i am not going to stop insulin and do a detox. i increased him to 1.75 2 days ago and i finally got a lower mid cycle number of 213 today. i'll get another pm mid cycle tonight and see where he is. thanks so much. i hope this drop is the start of a good run.
 
Re: 9/16 Tibbs amps 306 increase?

i just saw your comment in another post about Tibbs having ketones in his past - that makes it even more imperative that you not drop his dose without clear evidence that he needs less. Bouncing is not clear evidence. Catching a blood sugar test of less than 50 is what you want for evidence. In the absence of that, I'd go up per the protocol. Some cats just seem to be more prone to ketones than others, and if you've got one that is, you can't afford the luxury of being casual about blood sugar.

Sienne mentioned the other day, and she's absolutely right. In order to follow the protocol, you really have to get at least one post-pmps test every night. that's just for safety - none of us gets a commission for pushing them. we just know that they are essential for keeping a cat safe and catching low numbers.

I posted this link for a blood ketone meter if you are interested. http://www.adwdiabetes.com/product/nova-max-plus-glucose-ketone-meter-kit_3400.htm Pretty cheap, and if you register first at http://www.mrrebates.com you can get a rebate back on everything you spend at ADW.

I'm glad Tibbs is headed in the right direction. Dogged patience and persistence will get him regulated at the very least, OTJ in the best scenario.
 
Re: 9/16 Tibbs amps 306 increase?

thanks Julie
i actually just ordered the nova max to check his blood for ketones. thanks. also i'm def not stopping insulin and i will def get the pm mid cycle from now on. thanks so much for your help. i'll post his pm mid cycle tomorrow and see what you think.
nadine
 
Good luck Nadine!
I don't have anything to add (of course, I'm newer than you) just letting you know Tibbs' twin and her bean are pulling for him!
 
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