9/16 Reuben PMPS 196 +1/221

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Alexa and Reuben

Member Since 2012
9/15 Condo

All P's minus playing and petting his bean are in evidence. He threw up this morning before breakfast, (and I forgot to note that he threw up night before last). Before breakfast he was alert, hungry, acting normal. After breakfast he is back to feeling badly.

His weight is good, his fur looks good, sometimes his eyes even look normal (as opposed to extremely dilated).

I hope all the kitties and beans have a lovely Sunday. :razz:

Ongoing Meds-

Potencil 50mg bid
pepcid 2.5mgbid
bupe - not consistent (sometimes he won`t let me give it to him)
miralax - a few granules yesterday and today - he is leaving small prezzies. I want a BIG prezzie!!
 
Re: 9/16 Reuben AMPS 159

Happy Sunday, Alexa!

I wish poor Reuben would feel better! How odd that food seems to make him feel worse... I'm wondering about possible GI-issues... Are you considering having him checked out by his vet? It's been a while now that he's not been his usual self...

Hugs to you both!
Jane
 
Re: 9/16 Reuben AMPS 159

Are you giving the Pepsid at least 30 min. before you give Reuben food?

Also, do his eyes look dilated at times after you give bupe? Bupe is a narcotic and may have that effect. How frequently are you giving the bupe?

How much longer are you giving the Potencil for?
 
Re: 9/16 Reuben AMPS 159

Thank you so much Jane and Sienne -

We are feeling a little desperate over here, so thank you thank you for writing...

I am giving the pepcid before each pre-shot meal, just about half an hour before, maybe a smidge less sometimes.

His eyes being super dilated doesn`t seem to be related to the bupe. I haven`t been giving it very frequently lately. Once yesterday during the day. Then very late last night (early morning), and when I woke up he was not in pain. I just gave it to him again now, after I wrote the condo, and it definitely has made him feel better. He even asked for food - which is unusual for him.

The antibiotic is for a chronic intestinal infection, and if I stop giving the antibiotic to him it comes right back. So the answer is continued use. This is the way I have been able to control it.

I just joined the yahoo feline pancreatitis site. Maybe there will be help for us there.

Jane, so far I think it is uncontrolled pancreatitis. Pain after eating is one of the symptoms, if I understand it correctly.

Thank you both SO much. If I didn`t answer everything you asked please let me know?

-Alexa
 
Re: 9/16 Reuben AMPS 159 +1/125 +2/73

You may need to keep the level of bupe constant until the pancreatitis abates. If you're having trouble giving it as an oral med, it can be given as a subcutaneous injection, just like insulin. You may want to ask the pharmacist if an insulin syringe and dose on the syringe can be used with the bupe. You may need different syringes. It may be that Reuben's eyes are dilating due to pain. Please remember that cats are pros at hiding pain. Your observation that you gave Reuben some bupe today and he's feeling better is a give away that he's experiencing pain.

I'd also check with the pharmacist about giving the antibiotic and Pepsid anywhere near the same time. Some antibiotics need the acid environment of the stomach to work. Pepsid reduces the acidity of the stomach. You may need more than 30 min. between the two drugs.

I'd plan on getting a +2.5 or +3 test. Those numbers are coming down and your +2 is a signal that it's likely to be an active cycle.
 
Re: 9/16 Reuben AMPS 159 +1/125 +2/73 +2.75/54

Thank you Sienne - I am will act on your suggestions.

Quick question regarding the bg moment: I assume I do not want to let him go below 50 right now? I've been meaning to ask you what you make of his response to this dose.

Alexa
 
Re: 9/16 Reuben AMPS 159 +1/125 +2/73 +2.75/54

I agree that he should be on bupe until the pancreatitis resolves. Karre always has dilated pupils with pain, and did when he came down with the case of pancreatitis that put him back on insulin for a while.

Did I miss the reason you want to avoid a reduction right now? (I can't access your SS right now from my iphone.)

Hugs
Jane
 
Re: 9/16 Reuben AMPS 159 +1/125 +2/73 +2.75/54

Jane, thank you for being here. I do not *want* to avoid the reduction. I just don`t know what is right for him. I haven`t discussed his bg behavior with any of you yet and don`t have a feel for how it is going - from a more knowledgeable standpoint. kwim? I wish I had the curves written out to send you here right now. let me see if I can patch them together from condos and I`ll forward . :razz:

Hugs,
Alexa
 
Re: 9/16 Reuben AMPS 159 +1/125 +2/73 +2.75/54

And for the record, you're welcome of course, Alexa!

Ok, I've accessed the SS. Apologies for the delay and the slow iphone-typing!

The first couple of days on the current dose, Reuben's shed was catching up, but now, he's seen green again and again and has been dipping lower and lower. If he does go sub-50, I'd say it's a legitimately earned reduction. This is as always IMHO of course, but it's what I'm seeing.

I would get another test 30 mins after the last one. Did you feed at the last test?

Hugs
Jane
 
Re: 9/16 Reuben AMPS 159 +1/125 +2/73 +2.75/54

Alexa,
This is Reuben's 11th cycle on this dose. He's seen green numbers on at least 6 of those cycles. He's also bounced a couple of times, but they cleared pretty quickly. The lowest number you've seen so far is a 50 on the PM cycle of the 12th and he bounced for a cycle off of that. Overall, he's liking this dose a lot more than he liked the previous dose (less bouncing, no black numbers) I think. It looks to me like he's flirting with a reduction today.

Carl
 
Re: 9/16 Reuben AMPS 159 +1/125 +2/73 +2.75/54

Jane and Carl -

Sorry for the delay , I lost connection.

Yes, the last test at +3.25 was 49, so he is asking for it...

I don`t yet fully understand how the shed works and need to learn more.

i am feeding very very small amounts of LC

I`m going to look at his SS in light of both your observations right now.

you guys ROCK!!

Hugs,
Alexa
 
Re: 9/16 Reuben AMPS 159 +1/125 +2/73 +2.75/54

Ok Alexa! You rock too! Like granite :mrgreen:

The shed is an important aspect to understand, and we can and will all help you with what you need to know. But right now, let's focus on Reuben's cycle. I would retest in 20-30 minutes provided he ate a little snack at that 49, ok? Let's see him stabilized before we get into shed theory :-D

Hugs
Jane
 
Re: 9/16 Reuben AMPS 159 +1/125 +2/73 +2.75/54

janiejane and carlbob

+3.75/56 he feels GREAT. having a snuggle with civvieZack; giving his buddy and himself a little bath.

a mamabean`s heart is warmed and calmed....

hugs
alexa
 
Re: 9/16 Reuben AMPS 159 +1/125 +2/73 +2.75/54

Woohooooo!! Snuggly Reuben!!! Let's hear it for Reuben being sooo happy in these amazing numbers!!

I was thinking about his recent non-velcro tendencies... I really do think it may be pain-related after all due to the pancreatitis. He's snuggly with his pal, maybe also because his kitty pal doesn't lift him up bodily and so on, you know? I hope you will be able to find a good bupe-solution. If he's pain-free, I bet he'll be more snuggly again. Fingers crossed!!

What's your plan right now, Alexa? Re-test in about 45 minutes or so (if he ate at last test)? Wattaya say?

Hugs
Jane
 
Re: 9/16 Reuben AMPS 159 +1/125 +2/73 +2.75/54

I`m afraid to feed the +3.75/56 too much ... I gave a tiny bit @ +4 and i`ll test again at 4.5 ...I`m tired of writing these complicated fractions of quarter hours!! :lol:

Good point you have about him being snuggly with Zack bcz there is no constant ear poking or needle pricking from him. I was thinking I *could* try picking him up while he is in this snuggly mood with Z, and see how he responds to me. Or... I could just leave well enough alone!!

It was when I got him regulated on the bupe last time that he had the miraculous recovery.... I think it is the key. I am going to go back and read the condos from that period and see what I was doing, and start doing it again! Ah.. the poor boy, if only his bean had half a brain!! :roll:

Hugs,
Alexa
 
Re: 9/16 Reuben AMPS 159 +1/125 +2/73 +2.75/54

Alexa, you have a complicated cat with a melange of medical issues. And even so, you are managing to get him to be snuggly and happy!! Now give yourself some credit, lady!! :lol:

I'll look for your next BG. Good instincts on not wanting to feed too much and distort the cycle's natural rhythm. Even if he doesn't earn it tonight, he may be asking for a reduction soon! Great stuff!

Hugs
Jane
 
Re: 9/16 Reuben AMPS 159 +1/125 +2/73 +2.75/54 +3.25/49

Jane said:
Alexa, you have a complicated cat with a melange of medical issues. And even so, you are managing to get him to be snuggly and happy!! Now give yourself some credit, lady!! :lol:

I'll look for your next BG. Good instincts on not wanting to feed too much and distort the cycle's natural rhythm. Even if he doesn't earn it tonight, he may be asking for a reduction soon! Great stuff!

Hugs
Jane

Awe, thaaaaannk you Jane!! :YMHUG: I feel better. :razz:

He earned the reduction at +3.25/49 already!! I think it went by really quickly, but here it is in this message

reuben'smom said:
Jane and Carl - Sorry for the delay , I lost connection.Yes, the last test at +3.25 was 49, so he is asking for it...I don`t yet fully understand how the shed works and need to learn more.i am feeding very very small amounts of LCI`m going to look at his SS in light of both your observations right now. you guys ROCK! Hugs,
Alexa

I think we just kinda glossed over it, but there it is! Now back to imagining the .75 marking on the syringe, :lol:

Hugs,
Alexa
 
Re: 9/16 Reuben AMPS 159 +1/125 +2/73 +2.75/54 +3.25/49

Hi Alexa, Jane & Carl.

Reuben is doing very nicely today! I like this new dose for him! I hope he does as well or better on the new reduction! Congratulations! Alexa, you ask all the right questions. You're getting so good at this. :razz:

Have a good day! I'm visiting condos as much as I can today.

Melanie & Racci
 
Re: 9/16 Reuben AMPS 159 +1/125 +2/73 +2.75/54 +3.25/49

Yup, he earned his redux! Sorry :mrgreen: Dratted iphone makes it harder to keep track!

Woohoo! Redux!!

How are you doing, Alexa?

Hugs
Jane
 
Re: 9/16 Reuben AMPS 159 +1/125 +2/73 +2.75/54 +3.25/49

Jane said:
Yup, he earned his redux! Sorry :mrgreen: Dratted iphone makes it harder to keep track!

Woohoo! Redux!!

How are you doing, Alexa?

Hugs
Jane

No Worries! It wasn`t a big deal, just a 49. But enough to reduce!! party_cat My boy is doing the moves on the dance floor!!!

I feel great Jane, so relieved to have a conversation about him and looking forward to our weekly check-ins! And I'm so happy that he is sleeping in the sun with Zack.

I free fed last night and am going to just leave the food out for him now and let him decide. The free feeding produced AMPS 159, so it can`t be a bad thing!

I'll test him again in a little bit and then go to the store for... litter of course!! Yes, he still uses a lot.

You really made my day Jane, :YMHUG:

Thank you!

Alexa
 
Re: 9/16 Reuben AMPS 159 +1/125 +2/73 +2.75/54 +3.25/49

MelanieAndRacci said:
Hi Alexa, Jane & Carl.

Reuben is doing very nicely today! I like this new dose for him! I hope he does as well or better on the new reduction! Congratulations! Alexa, you ask all the right questions. You're getting so good at this. :razz:

Have a good day! I'm visiting condos as much as I can today.

Melanie & Racci

Hi Melanie, Thank you for the vote of confidence!! It still feels like paddling around in the middle of the ocean in a life-raft, but hey, it`s floating and I have a paddle - so who's complaining!!

Thanks so much for stopping by to visit, it`s always nice to see you :razz:

Alexa
 
Re: 9/16 Reuben AMPS 159 +1/125 +2/73 +2.75/54 +3.25/49

Alexa,
The best place to try to wrap your head around the "depot" is to read the sticky thread:
http://felinediabetes.com/FDMB/viewtopic.php?f=9&t=150

As someone who used PZI, and not one of the "L" insulins, the concept was completely foreign to me, and something I really had to read and reread a few times before it started making any sense to me!

The most important part, for me, was understanding that the shot you are giving "right now" does not act independent of the "depot".

In other words, just because it is a smaller dose (or even a skipped or token dose), that doesn't mean you will automatically see less activity with the BG levels this cycle. The depot is still at a level that was determined by the previous higher dose, and it can impact this cycle, and still have an effect for a couple cycles, until the depot adjusts down to the new dose.

Same thing when you increase the dose. Just because you go up by .25u, that doesn't mean you will see any increased effect in the next cycle. A part of the increase is going to the depot, until it fills to the new higher dose level. This can take one cycle, or it can happen 5 or 6 cycles later.

I think that this is important because many times, people will increase or decrease, and "nothing" changes immediately. So you sit there wondering "but why isn't it working?" That's because it takes time to see the full effect of either an increase, or a decrease. People call it "settling" and you will see that lots of times, when someone advises that you have to wait for the dose to settle, or for Reuben to "settle into the new dose".

Tonight, you will most likely shoot a decreased dose. But you may not see the results of that decrease tonight, or tomorrow for that matter.

In my humble opinion, the greatest characteristic that a user of Lantus or Levemir - the depot style insulins - can possess is "patience". It really does require a large measure of patience on the bean's part to deal with all of this.

In that sticky thread, I think the most valuable bit of advice that Libby gives us is this:
Try to look at your spreadsheet not in 12-hour cycles, but in “waves” of action over a period of several days. Look for overall trends more than individual numbers. If something jumps out and doesn’t seem to make sense, go back 2-3 days and think about any changes that might have occurred in insulin, timing, exercise, health, food, etc. If the big picture is making sense but you see one cycle that doesn’t fit, then keep that 20-50% variation in mind and just wait it out.

I'm sure someone will be along to better help you understand the depot, but reading the sticky a half dozen times would be a good place to start! It worked for me :lol:

Carl
 
Re: 9/16 Reuben AMPS 159 +2/73 +3.25/49 +4.5/64

Bless you, Alexa! It's been a tiring day, but you just made me grin from ear to ear! Thank you for the lovely compliment!

Carl - you're beyond words. Thank you so very much. Awesome job on the shed recap!!

JanieJane
 
Re: 9/16 Reuben AMPS 159 +2/73 +3.25/49 +4.5/64

It's really great to see Reuben in such better numbers than just a short time ago. Well done, Alexa and Reuben! I'm so glad you found Lantus Land. :-D :-D
Liz
 
Re: 9/16 Reuben AMPS 159 +2/73 +3.25/49 +4.5/64

Oh my, fell sound asleep!! I guess I`ll test at +6.5 now.

So glad I could bring a smile to you on the other side of the globe JanieJane :razz:

And thank you Carl for the overview! I`ll keep re-reading the sticky :razz: I was reading it the other day and thinking - 'someone needs to make an educational video about this' -- you know, like harcourt-brace did for specific topics for schools, back in the day. It`s just crying out for visuals!! Anyway, yes, I understand the basic concept, but I think I am starting to wonder about the more specific data regarding time frames... how long does it take to fill on an increase and shed on a decrease? What are the factors that affect it?; what percent is going to the depot and what percent to mimic the missing natural pancreatic release of insulin? and where is this insulin depot anyway? Right down the street from the patience pants pizza parlor?? Across the street from the lantus library? :lol: So yeah, time for me to do some research!!

I really need to go to the store for cat litter and food for civvieZack (who refuses the home cooked stuff.. sheesh!)... anybody think Reuben Rey is going anywhere but up from here?

Alexa
 
Re: 9/16 Reuben AMPS 159 +2/73 +3.25/49 +4.5/64

Anne & Zener said:
It's really great to see Reuben in such better numbers than just a short time ago. Well done, Alexa and Reuben! I'm so glad you found Lantus Land. :-D :-D
Liz

Thank you so much Liz, that is just the sweetest thing to say!! We are too, beyond glad to have finally found the magic road to Magic Lantus Land...

:YMHUG: 's to you and Anne and Zener

Alexa&Reuben
 
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