9/12 Olive BG 515 AMPS but had a good night

[OlivesMom]

She's so pretty!

Thank you!
She hasn't thrown up since +3. Her BG has gone 113/156/172/140 in the last hour. I was hoping for a rise from the 172 so I could consider going to bed soon. I'll stay up until +7 and see how things are going from there.

Then again, she's had just 1 1/2 tsp since she threw up. I can tell she's not feeling well as she snubs her nose at anything I offer right now. So I'm just going to let her be until morning. I have no idea what caused her to throw up after the PM shot. She hadn't had that much food at all. Just 3 tsp at the PMPS and then I was headed to bed after the +3 so offered her 3 more tsp knowing it would have to last until I planned on getting a +6. Last time this happened was on the 4th and she threw up +1.50. Tonight she threw up+3.25.

Well, looks like sleep will be delayed a while longer. She's dropped to 97. I wish she's voluntarily eat. But if her tummy feels bad I don't blame her for not wanting food.

 

[Critter Mom]

Maybe the food transition might have upset Olive's tum a little, Robyn. Might be worth checking for signs of nausea and asking your vet for something to help (e.g. ondansetron) so that her insulin treatment doesn't get disrupted. Here is some helpful info:

Nausea and Inappetence - Symptoms and Treatments

With some kitties transition needs to be a really s-l-o-w process. For example, I'm in the middle of transitioning my civvie, Lúnasa, to a renal support diet. I'm only altering proportions between old and new by 2g a day and even at that rate I have to pause some days.

At the above link, there are suggestions on baby foods that are safe for cats. Sometimes a queasy kitty will eat a little of these foods when they don't fancy anything else. Might be a useful addition to your toolkit.

Sorry you didn't get much in the way of sleep.

(((Robyn)))


Mogs
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[OlivesMom]

Maybe the food transition might have upset Olive's tum a little, Robyn. Might be worth checking for signs of nausea and asking your vet for something to help (e.g. ondansetron) so that her insulin treatment doesn't get disrupted. Here is some helpful info:

Nausea and Inappetence - Symptoms and Treatments

With some kitties transition needs to be a really s-l-o-w process. For example, I'm in the middle of transitioning my civvie, Lúnasa, to a renal support diet. I'm only altering proportions between old and new by 2g a day and even at that rate I have to pause some days.

At the above link, there are suggestions on baby foods that are safe for cats. Sometimes a queasy kitty will eat a little of these foods when they don't fancy anything else. Might be a useful addition to your toolkit.

Sorry you didn't get much in the way of sleep.

(((Robyn)))


Mogs
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Thanks! I thought she was handling the transition really well but maybe tomorrow (today now) I'll go back to the 50/50 mix for a little while longer. I know she was totally cool with that. Up till tonight's +3 she exhibited no signs of distress on the increase to 75% DM to 25% Raw, but who knows. Olive is teaching me I know NOTHING. lol. She just started the milk thistle 4 days ago and I know that's good for tummies too. Will look at that link you sent tomorrow when I can think clearly. Gosh I'm tired and I'm going to have to be up at+9.5 to see if her BG has risen enough for the AM shot, if not will have to try and feed her at that time since I can't feed any closer than 2 hours to the shot. Maybe I can sleep after her AM shot for a few hours at least. I'm zonked. Her BG shouldn't drop anymore as she's in the "surfing" range around the nadir, so maybe it's safe to go to sleep for a few hours. Talk later.

 

[OlivesMom]

I can't believe she dipped down to 75+ 7.50 after being 101+7 at this stage in the cycle. I just gave some honey, FF gravy, and managed to get her to eat 1 1/2 tsp of food. At this point I'm about ready to say it's just not safe to give her any insulin at all. For whatever reason her body just won't accept it and the constant threat of her going too low is really stressing me out. I don't know what to do. I'm just so tired I want to cry. It's looking more like a skipped shot 4 hours from now.

Even before I could finish this Olive just threw up the tsp of food I just gave her to raise her BG and the honey and gravy along with it. I don't know what to do. I put up a 911 hoping for some quick insight incase things go sour. I'll take the 911 down as soon as someone replies with any thoughts on what to do this late in the cycle if she goes lower since she can't hold anything down. I'm genuinely at a loss of what to do in this case. She shouldn't be continuing to drop like this, right? It's so late in the cycle. I'm worried since she can't hold anything down as to what to do next. so how do I keep her BG from going any lower other than honey on the gums and how long can you keep doing that?

 

[Sue and Luci]

Can you remove the 911 from your post?

 

[OlivesMom]

Looks like Olive will remain hovering at the 93 mark for now. If this were earlier in the cycle I'd be alert knowing she dips 40-50 points when she reached 100, which is why it concerned me greatly at +7.50 when I couldn't get her to hold anything down and we still had more time to go in the cycle. For her, 75 can turn dangerous in a heartbeat. As I mentioned earlier, if your cat can't hold anything at all down then how long can you keep giving sugar to keep the BG up? I'm going see about those nausea meds. I'm pretty certain we will have to skip her AM IU. I'm going to lay down for 2 hours. Later.

 

[Critter Mom]

As I mentioned earlier, if your cat can't hold anything at all down then how long can you keep giving sugar to keep the BG up?

I guess as long as it takes.


Mogs
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[OlivesMom]

After 2 hours sleep her BG remains at the 98 mark. If only I could have gotten her to eat things would be different. I must skip the morning injection and hope I can get some food to stay down her today.

 

[Critter Mom]

I'm sorry you didn't get timely help earlier, Robyn. I hope by the time you read this you'll have managed to get a little sleep.


Mogs
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[Critter Mom]

hope I can get some food to stay down her today.

Could you maybe put a call in to the vet to ask for some supportive meds for her before the weekend?


Mogs
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[OlivesMom]

Could you maybe put a call in to the vet to ask for some supportive meds for her before the weekend?


Mogs
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I already have called. It was the first thing I did after my last post. My old vet isn't there today so the other vet in the office is supposed to call me back when she's done seeing a few emergency patients. I explained to the gal behind the desk what's been going on and how we've been flying solo because the vet our vet handed Olive's case over to just didn't work out. How we butted heads about Olive's food and then she decided it was best we find someone else for her care. I still get emotional over that. The gal told me she was sorry and that we aren't the only ones she's behaved that way with so not to feel bad. Said it was a bad reflection on HER. Said she likes to bully and guilt people into doing things her way instead of what's right for the animal. So that made me feel so much better. I told her we never wanted to switch to her but that our vet said she was more experienced with diabetes and raw food...for which she understood. However, I also told her that she ended up knowing NOTHING about raw food. And because we haven't had any professional vet help that we've been doing the very best we can in the meantime. I told her how Olive tanks even on 0.01 IU and that we've been trying to transition her food to the DM thinking extra carbs might be the answer, but how she keeps throwing up which is sinking any hopes for regulation on insulin. Not to mention Olive doesn't need to feel sick. She understood. Something will be done today to get Olive help.

In the meantime, I have just offered her 1/2 a tsp of a mix of 1/3 DM to 2/3 RAW. I was going to return to half and half, but I thought I'd really take this transitioning reset back to the basics until I hear back from the vet's office. She's held that little bit down for 20 minutes so far. I'm not going to push it. I'll try another 1/2 tsp about an hour later and see how she handles that until I have her eating at least a few tsp without throwing it up.

 

[OlivesMom]

I'm sorry you didn't get timely help earlier, Robyn. I hope by the time you read this you'll have managed to get a little sleep.

I've gotten 2 hours in the past 24 hours. Hubby said he'd run my errands today when he's done with work so that will give me a chance to get in a nap.

 

[Critter Mom]

Nice one, hubby!

On food transitions in general, sometimes one has to take a step back to the level that worked and then change proportions more slowly. Infuriating but necessary. It can be soooooo hard to contend with emotionally. I'd love Lúnasa to be eating 100% of the renal therapeutic diet tomorrow but I have no choice but to go at the pace her little body will allow. It has taken weeks to get as far as 40:60 old:new and at the rate things are going it could potentially take another fortnight to get her the rest of the way.


Mogs
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[OlivesMom]

On food transitions in general, sometimes one has to take a step back to the level that worked and then change proportions more slowly. Infuriating but necessary.

Well, I'm hoping if her throwing up is strictly food related that by taking this big step back that she'll stop throwing up and feeling sick to her stomach. She's buzzing around me for more food as I speak. It's been almost an hour so I think I'll try 1/2 tsp more for the new mix. Crossing fingers.

It has taken weeks to get as far as 40:60 old:new and at the rate things are going it could potentially take another fortnight to get her the rest of the way.

That definitely it a slow transition. I'm sorry it's taking so long. If you are interested in holistic alternatives, I swear by this product. It made a world of difference for my KD kitty, Sophie. When we lost her, it wasn't due to the KD, so that also said a lot to us.

 

[OlivesMom]

Knowing how much we love the petwellbeing.com company, we are considering this product for Olive:

 

[Critter Mom]

Thanks for the suggestion, Robyn. Will have a look-see.


Mogs
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[OlivesMom]

Vet tech just called. They prescribed Famotidine for her which luckily I already had on hand. They said if that doesn't help the nausea to call back tomorrow morning. Plus we talked about the food transitioning and she said to definitely take it back to the beginning and let's start over. Like you said, just a pinch each day at first and slowly increase the ratio over 1-2 weeks time. Okay, so back to basics we go. But that means Olive's isn't going to get any notable carbs then in the meantime because raw food is 0.04% carbs. There's no way she's going to be able to stay on the insulin without tanking, so she's going to stay sky high until she's properly transitioned to the DM.

 

[Critter Mom]

I know this is terribly tough going for you, Robyn, and I know from experience how hard setbacks are to take, but given how high Olive has been going when she gets nothing, even though it's only a tiny dose she needs that bit of insulin to help keep her clear of ketones if nothing else.

Do you have a record of the proportions of each food that you've been giving each day of the transition (raw/DM)? If you check back on that to see the proportions Olive was able to tolerate OK then that might be as far back as you need to go for the do-over. If she's OK with those proportions perhaps keep her on that mix for a few days to stabilise and then gradually alter the proportions till she's 100% comfortable on the higher carb food.

I hope all goes well for the rest of the day.


Mogs
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[OlivesMom]

I know this is terribly tough going for you, Robyn, and I know from experience how hard setbacks are to take, but given how high Olive has been going when she gets nothing, even though it's only a tiny dose she needs that bit of insulin to help keep her clear of ketones if nothing else.

Do you have a record of the proportions of each food that you've been giving each day of the transition (raw/DM)?

Everything I did got noted. Although she didn't throw up and her appetite actually increased while on the 50/50 ratio, I did note she spent far more time over the water bowl for those 2 days, so I've been at the 25% DM to 75% Raw ratio all day. I'll continue with this until morning and then tomorrow I'll throw in a pinch more of the DM. I won't even try the 50/50 for a few more days unless she tanks and I HAVE to give her some carbs. I've failed Olive many times over since this began and I don't want to rush this and create yet another setback. I'm already preparing for another sleepless night. I did get in a few hours earlier although I wish those 2 hours were more like 4-6.
There was no point testing her much today as she's eaten very little as I've tried to slowly get her to keep down food again. I didn't want to offer too much too often. But it would seem she did MUCH better at getting in her calories without threat of throwing up when I was giving her the 50/50 mix every hour or so. I'm going to go spend a little time with hubby and eat. I wanted to sleep more than eat dinner earlier, so I should eat something now even though it's late. Will talk to you tomorrow.
Thanks for being there!

 

[Critter Mom]

it would seem she did MUCH better at getting in her calories without threat of throwing up when I was giving her the 50/50 mix every hour or so

Two words, Robyn: Timed feeders.

Saoirse had a massive pancreatitis flare shortly after she was diagnosed with FD. She could only tolerate a very small amount of food and broth every hour or two. The only way I was able to get the sleep I needed in order to look after her properly was to use timed feeders for her food overnight.

Maybe a similar solution could help the two of you? Any time you know Olive will be in safe numbers for the rest of a cycle - AM or PM - you could load up the feeders for her and then get some sleep for yourself. What do you think?


Mogs
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[AliceMeowliss (GA)]

Hi, I just popped in. It looks like you have had a very exhausting week and I want to offer big hugs!
After my girl had DKA I went like you are going right now for about 5 weeks. Make sure you find time to get 3-5 solid hours of sleep, that amount of time is enough to complete one sleep cycle, which will be more restorative for you overall than the 30-60 minute naps.
Edit to add: during DKA I would get one full proper sleep cycle every 3-4 days, if you can get 3-5 hours every 2-3 days you may be able to get through alright.
Also, someone once told me, FD “is a marathon, not a sprint.” It was some good wisdom for me to hear at the time.


Earlier in the thread you mentioned propping her up with mid/high carb to avoid a hypo. This is not at all a bad thing necessarily. It’s referred to as “feeding the curve” and can be very valuable in helping to avoid bounces. We want our kitties in those blues and safe greens all the time, I know, but sometimes going slow and letting blood glucose drop gradually is easier on their bodies.

Big hugs. I wish you many restorative naps soon, and for Olive to start eating consistently Hope the nausea medicine provides some relief for you both.

 

[OlivesMom]

Hi, I just popped in. It looks like you have had a very exhausting week and I want to offer big hugs!

Awww, thank you! Appreciate the hug. After a week like this I definitely need all the hugs I can get. It's also very nice to know that others have been exactly where I am with lack of sleep.

I wish you many restorative naps soon, and for Olive to start eating consistently Hope the nausea medicine provides some relief for you both

I actually got my first solid 3 hours sleep this morning. Even though I'm tired, I'm not exhausted today.

Two words, Robyn: Timed feeders.

That's what Olive was on for the years we've had her...it fed her kibble every 4 1/2 hours over a 24 hour period. Worked wonders. Only, I'm feeding raw now and that can't be left out. At a maximum, under good temps, it can only go 2 hours left out but then has to be thrown out. Plus, I've got another cat, Cindy, who would definitely steal. But even if I confined both cats to separate rooms, if I leave food out Olive gorges on the whole thing at one time even if she's already eaten, then throws up. She's NEVER been a cat who saves food for later. That's why we went to the timed feeder originally. So I have no choice but to offer the proper amount of food at timed intervals. I wish they made slow feeders for refrigerated foods.

I thought last night went rather well. It was a nice slow, gentle cycle. I'm not used to that so I was waiting for the other shoe to drop. lol. Thus, the hourly testing. I know I'm told to not worry about frequent testing, but Olive hasn't found any form of regularity yet going from one extreme to the next and it offers me peace of mind KNOWING where she is most of the time. Peace of mind means everything to me. One day, once she stabilizes into something more "stable" then I'll feel okay about testing infrequently. Once she began the +7 I knew I could get some sleep, but just to ensure she still was climbing for the AM shot, I checked her @+9 and offered some more food knowing she'd have to wait another 3 hours. Her appetite was picking up. The nausea meds seemed to really help her yesterday as I noticed less trips to the water bowl and more bright eyes staring back at me. I have her another pill at the AM food/injection and so far so good. Even got her to eat 3 tsp of food which is a big victory for shot time meals. I don't have the time to record anything into the remarks from last night so will get to that later this afternoon, but so far so good.

 

[JaxBenji]

I wish they made slow feeders for refrigerated foods.

They do I'm just got my pet feeder - I got the Cate Mate C500 - It has 5 compartments (1 open and 4 hidden) and ice packs. I ordered right from the manufacturer (link here) - I also ordered 2 extra ice packs in case I wanted to use it for AM and PM (so I'd just have to wash it out and put in new ice packs). I've only had mine a day but happy with it so far. And, I have mine rotate to an empty spot 2 hours before shot time!

We have a 2-cat household but we've almost always separated the kitties at night (and of course - now with diabetes for Jax - meal times during the day).

Also - this thread is super duper long The general idea is to start a brand new post each day and then link to yesterday's post. This way the thread isn't so long and scrolling and people can go back and look at a specific day if needed to see what happened just something to consider for tomorrow.

Lastly, you're doing great Hugs to you and your kitty

 

[OlivesMom]

Also - this thread is super duper long The general idea is to start a brand new post each day and then link to yesterday's post. This way the thread isn't so long and scrolling and people can go back and look at a specific day if needed to see what happened just something to consider for tomorrow.

Oh! Okay, thought I'd been doing it right all this time. Thank you for letting me know. I'll start fresh tomorrow morning.

They do I'm just got my pet feeder - I got the Cate Mate C500 - It has 5 compartments (1 open and 4 hidden) and ice packs. I ordered right from the manufacturer (link here) - I also ordered 2 extra ice packs in case I wanted to use it for AM and PM (so I'd just have to wash it out and put in new ice packs). I've only had mine a day but happy with it so far. And, I have mine rotate to an empty spot 2 hours before shot time!

That sounds great! Could you do me a favor and give your new feeder about a week long test and then let me know how it held up? Such as if it truly kept the cold food cold and for how long? How long the ice packs remained cold? I'd appreciate that info. I don't want to take any chances with raw food.

Lastly, you're doing great Hugs to you and your kitty

Appreciate the kind words!

 

[JaxBenji]

give your new feeder about a week long test and then let me know how it held up?

I'll do my best to remember to circle back! I do know ice packs were still cold to the touch this morning (so about 8 hours in my air conditioned house). And I'm not feeding raw like you (just wet). I think @Butters & Lyla uses the same (or similar) one for wet food too (sorry for the tags, Lyla - popular topic today!).

 

[Wendy&Neko]

I fed raw in an autofeeder, with ice packs. Topped with an ice cube if especially hot out. Or not completely thawed raw.

A tip to get more sleep, as soon as you see her start to head back up or flatten out, as long as she hasn't had higher carb food, go to bed. You would have been OK to stop at +6 as she was flat. Later on, as you learn Olive's patterns, that time might be moved up even more.

 

[OlivesMom]

You would have been OK to stop at +6 as she was flat. Later on, as you learn Olive's patterns, that time might be moved up even more.

I thought so, but until I learn Olive's patterns I'd rather air on the side of caution.

I fed raw in an autofeeder, with ice packs. Topped with an ice cube if especially hot out. Or not completely thawed raw.

What's the name of the feeder you used?

 

[Wendy&Neko]

I used the Petsafe 5. Not sure the one Suzanne used was around then, but it looks like a good one too. I did try a different one at first, but not one I'd recommend.

 

[AliceMeowliss (GA)]

I actually got my first solid 3 hours sleep this morning. Even though I'm tired, I'm not exhausted today.

I remember that feeling too! Whew, 3 hours of sleep! It’s so refreshing when you’ve had no more than an hour at a time. Keep giving yourself some breaks. It’s understandable to want the data and to keep your cat safe, but we also gotta keep ourselves somewhat functional.

I have a three cup timed feeder with ice pack, everyone recommended the 5 cup pet safe like @Wendy&Neko , and I wish I had gotten that one. But I would say just pick one and get it and try it out. If you don’t like it for your needs you can always resell it on the supply closet forum.

 

[Butters & Lyla]

I'll do my best to remember to circle back! I do know ice packs were still cold to the touch this morning (so about 8 hours in my air conditioned house). And I'm not feeding raw like you (just wet). I think @Butters & Lyla uses the same (or similar) one for wet food too (sorry for the tags, Lyla - popular topic today!).

Yep. The catmate C500. I've been using it for about 2 months I think. Very happy with it. Whatever food is unfinished is still cool in the morning. Some people make ice cubes of cat food to put in the auto feeder for the later settings, and some put a reusable ice cube in the tray.

 

[OlivesMom]

I used the Petsafe 5

Ok, I'll look things up later after I finish some chores. Thanks!

Great news is that even though Olive's still high +5, she's negative for ketones.

 

[Wendy&Neko]

I meant to add earlier, save your money on the Blood Sugar Gold. Many have tried with no benefit.

 

[OlivesMom]

I have a three cup timed feeder with ice pack, everyone recommended the 5 cup pet safe like @Wendy&Neko , and I wish I had gotten that one. But I would say just pick one and get it and try it out. If you don’t like it for your needs you can always resell it on the supply closet forum.

Yeah, think I'll try it out, but it's going to have to wait until Hubby's next paycheck. Thanks everyone for the help.

I meant to add earlier, save your money on the Blood Sugar Gold. Many have tried with no benefit.

Shoot! I was hopeful it would be an option. When I spoke to the gal over at the company about it she said it took a while to begin working...meaning a minimum of a month just to "start" building it up in the system. Do you know if anyone went longer than a month by chance? I know some people stop products if they see no result within a week or two. Just curious if you had any idea if they continued at least to the month mark and beyond.

 

[Wendy&Neko]

I didn't keep track of how long people used it. There have been quite a few who tried it, some more than a couple weeks. You can do a search on here or the Feline Health forum to see what people found.