9/12 charlie pmps 356 +4 252

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Darin & Charlie

Darin & Charlie

Member Since 2014
http://www.felinediabetes.com/FDMB/viewtopic.php?f=9&t=125103
Charlie had some pretty good drops last night, then things stared to slow at +4, with nadir of 123 @ +5.
I think when this bounce clears I am going to try to "feed the curve" to try to get this bouncing under control.
He is bouncing the blue's, so I am going to steer his BG to spend more time in blue numbers.
I will start with a goal nadir of 150 +/- 10, and will evaluate every 4th day, then on the 4th day let the nadir dip below 150 but above 100. When a bounce happens those days will not count towards the 3 days nor will the bounce reset the 3 days.
Reduction in nadir will only occur If on the 3rd he does not bounce off the 150 +/- 10 nadir. The nadir will only be lowered 25 pts at a time. The 3 days will reset If bounce occurs on the 3rd day.

With charlie dropping and bouncing the way he does causing a potential 3 day setback due to the bounce, I would rather spend the 3 days getting his body use to Lower numbers rather then the goal of earning reductions. This will help reinforce the "This is a marathon and not a sprint" for me, cause always having a reduction as the goal turns this into a sprint.

Opinions are welcomed and encouraged.
 
Re: 9/12 charlie amps 334

I have heard people talk about this strategy, but I haven't heard it ever being suggested by the most experienced people. I get where you're coming from, but i'm not sure that getting him used to blue numbers would translate into making it easier for him to get used to green numbers.

In other words, if he gets used to 130, i think he would still likely react to 70 when he gets there. I would just go for getting him into greens and trying to keep him there from the beginning. OTherwise it seems to me that the time spent getting used to 130 is just prolonging the overall time, because the goal is to get him used to being under 100.

does that make sense? i have to go get ready for work but will check in with you later today.

have a great day, darin!
 
Re: 9/12 charlie amps 334

Yes makes sense, maybe I worded my plan wrong. I want to keep lowering his nadir. I won't let him get in to green until he passes the 3 day test( not bouncing from the nadir preset of 150, upon passing I would lower the nadir by 25pts. Wash, rinse, and repeat, so that eventually he will be acustomed to lower numbers)
 
Re: 9/12 charlie pmps 356

in my experience, what clears out the bouncing is giving enough insulin to bring down the high numbers. speaking generally, if you're hometesting and following TR, you want to give the most insulin that the cat can safely tolerate. Reducing the insulin dose will almost always reduce the bouncing. But bouncing isn't a bad thing, and eventually as the insulin dose increases, a cat will "snap" in marje's lingo, and the blood sugar will become controlled.

On Charlie's ss, that happened when you got his dose up to 3.75u. Suddenly you started getting long stretches of green. You had to prop up his lowest blood sugar numbers to keep him safe, but when you did that, he had hours and hours of green.

I read through the thread that Shelly linked - most of those people are not following Tight Regulation. The TR protocol is proven, and following the dosing protocol means putting your cat into green nadirs over and over again until they accept it as normal. Most do, and of course, like everything with FD, the sooner the better. The saying that I learned here is "keep showing them the green."

i just hate seeing people reduce the dose in advance, ie, before their cat has earned a reduction by going below 50 on x dose.. I've never seen it help, and it tends to be a set-back. Think how long it took you to get Charlie back on track after some skipped and reduced doses - that's the same effect that happens when people reduce the dose before the cat has proved they need less insulin.

There's my 2 cents worth. no charge! :lol:
 
Re: 9/12 charlie pmps 356

Shelly, thanks for then link. Seems like they started to have a good start on the idea then it fizzled out.

Julie, i just read the first condo you posted last sunday related to feeding the curve. http://www.felinediabetes.com/FDMB/viewtopic.php?f=9&t=101989
There is some excellent discussion.
I think what i am doing is the same thing, but with a protocol in place.
Either way i have a few days to read and think some about it.
 
Re: 9/12 charlie pmps 356

Julie, can you link me to SS that shows a cat bouncing till otj.
Maybe that will help me get off this idea.
The crazy thing is that when i had woke up this am, that idea was sitting front and center in my mind almost to the point of being visual.
 
Re: 9/12 charlie pmps 356

hahahaha - well, the bottom line is that sometimes ya gotta try something for yourself to know if it's going to work. i understand the idea sitting up in your head so you can't ignore it. so if you wanna try it, go for it.

Shelly's Jersey - shelly posted a couple of comments above. Jersey was crazy going OTJ, but she did it. Jersey had a 322 4 days before her trial began and a 467 4 days before that. Here's her spreadsheet: https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/ccc?key=0ApewFi3qNBcxdFdXUzBkTl9BTXhzcjRGdkZYR1JJZnc&usp=sharing

She's definitely not the only one, but offhand she's the one i'm thinking of. If you want others, i can find some - they are definitely out there. I think Charlie is doing better than you think. He's gone down from 3.75 to 1.25u (of course, i've already closed his ss, but i think that's where he is) and he's succeeded in holding these reductions. I would look at his spreadsheet and say he's on track. If he were mine, i'd try some food manipulating to smooth out his curves. If I had to go back up in dose I might consider switching to Levemir, but honestly, i think he's doing well on the Lantus.
 
Re: 9/12 charlie pmps 356

Hi Darin,

Here's another of my favorite bouncy kitties. Leo's SS.

I think I get what you're saying about propping up his numbers with food to try to keep him in higher numbers, aiming for a higher nadir, to try to help with the bouncing. This is exactly what many folks will do in terms of food manipulation. If feeding the curve holds up the lowest of the numbers, you can often hold onto a dose for a longer period of time without a reduction, which in turn (at least in theory), will help bring down some of the higher numbers. Some kitties cooperate with this plan, some don't. :lol: Keep copious notes of exactly what and when you fed and experiment with different timing and carb levels to see what happens.
 
Jen thanks for Leo's SS, all i can say about that cat and his SS is was wow. What initially looked like a war zone with no chance of remission let alone regulation, really had a nice slide into remission. I can see when the bounces cleared faster even at +400 bg. Heck even the amps 412 three cycles prior to otj trial is inspiring.
 
What jen describes is a method I think works really well. Preventing a dose reduction by keeping a cat above 50 can make an improvement fairly quickly. The caveat is that it needs to be done by someone like you who is great about monitoring and understands how your own cat responds to insulin,. You also want to only do it for a short time, as long as it is fairly easy to keep the cat above 50 so you don't have a situation where the depot is too big for what the cat needs. If you're working hard to hold the cat above 50, it's time to take the reduction.
 
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