9/08 Butters AMPS 140/../+5.5 56/+6 47/+6.5 61/../+9.5 83/+11 59/+12 110/PMPS 137/+2.5 211/

106 and we are at +2. Early in the cycle but I'm not ready to break out the MC just yet. Fed 1 tsp of LC and I'll check again at +3.

thebigfuzz said:
Have a good day Lyla!
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Butters decided to arrive fashionably late to the dropsy Monday party. :rolleyes:
Have a great day!

JaxBenji said:
Oh Butters, learning the ol drop-at-shot-time trick from Jax ;) Happy surfing!
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Butters enjoys this trick immensely.:)
 
Could I have done more to prevent her from swimming with the sharks? I thought I was doing an okay job feeding her and keeping her surfing on the MC. :(
 
I was testing when you wrote this. The HC got her up to 61, so I was going to hold off for 30 minutes and see if she'll stay up. Do you think I should give her more?
She did not eat the HC with vigor; I think her appetite is waning a little.
 
Butters & Lyla said:
I was testing when you wrote this. The HC got her up to 61, so I was going to hold off for 30 minutes and see if she'll stay up. Do you think I should give her more?
She did not eat the HC with vigor; I think her appetite is waning a little.
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No...just hold off from more food until you can get another test...if she's up to 61 now she may be finished with her surfing for the day...let's see if the rise is on the way...
 
I have a weak example around August 7th of her not holding a reduction. Plus this current situation starting September 2nd. Prior to these examples, I was following my vet's instructions so I don't know that the data is usable for much.

August 7th not cut and dried because I also switched to calipers then. I am not experienced enough to make the decision on my own to not reduce this dose. I will need other advice and opinions. :)
Why do we not consider some kind of in-between dose? If 1.5u is too little, but 1.75 is too much...then what?
 
@Butters & Lyla - These kitties are such puzzles. I know the general rule is save HC for <50 but have you ever tried HC for <60? I'm clearly just throwing out the idea and maybe someone more experienced will chime in. On a positive note, look at all that surfing in healing numbers :D You did so great today :bighug:
 
Butters & Lyla said:
I have a weak example around August 7th of her not holding a reduction. Plus this current situation starting September 2nd. Prior to these examples, I was following my vet's instructions so I don't know that the data is usable for much.

August 7th not cut and dried because I also switched to calipers then. I am not experienced enough to make the decision on my own to not reduce this dose. I will need other advice and opinions. :)
Why do we not consider some kind of in-between dose? If 1.5u is too little, but 1.75 is too much...then what?
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Did you see the stickie I posted in your comment above? It talks about fractional reductions...you've got options.
 
Found it! In the TR sticky it says "If kitty has a history of not holding reductions well or if reductions are close together... sneak the dose down by
shaving the dose rather than reducing by a full quarter unit."

So let's say that Butters has a history of not holding reductions well....I have two options:
1) opt to wait for three drops (two more to go) under 50 before reducing; or,
2) shave down the dose instead of taking the full .25u reduction. What does a "shave" look like? -0.1u?

I think maybe Butters has told me twice that 1.75u is too much right now. I fed her curve today based on how she previously responded to carbs in previous cycles where it looks like she is breaking a bounce. But maybe if I'd fed her HC instead of MC earlier on I could've prevented the drop below 50 altogether. It's hard to know for sure.
 
Butters & Lyla said:
Butters has told me twice that 1.75u is too much right now.
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I've been doing the 3 x under 50 for quite some time now...but of course Luci is a different story...

This is the thing the call the 'sugar dance'...up/down, up/down, up/down.

What I see is an effective dose as far as finally getting her into some nice greens, however, she did seem rather intent on visiting the sharks, although with your on-spot monitoring she wasn't likely to get much further than a peek under there - so with meter variance, I'd probably lean toward trying the 3 under 50 - but then again it's your choice.

If you do decide to go with a Skinny dose, here's a note in my "Information" section from Marje:

Sue: Here’s a chart in 0.1u increments up to 1u and then every 0.25u up to 2u based on 1u = 1.32mm. Once you get over 1u, if you start making changes (fatten or skinny) do it by using 0.13 mm = 0.1u. In other words, if you need to fatten or skinny a dose, I’d do it by 0.1u, in general. Otherwise, stick with your 0.25u dose changes. Sound good?
 
JaxBenji said:
@Butters & Lyla - These kitties are such puzzles. I know the general rule is save HC for <50 but have you ever tried HC for <60? I'm clearly just throwing out the idea and maybe someone more experienced will chime in. On a positive note, look at all that surfing in healing numbers :D You did so great today :bighug:
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Thanks :)

I see what you're saying. I was/am using MC when she's in the 50s, dangerously close to shark territory. Perhaps if I'd used HC instead I could've gotten her to surf at a higher normal number and avoided the sharks altogether. It makes sense in theory. It's a delicate balancing act: I'm trying to keep her surfing without sending her skyrocketing with too many carbs. For the most part, my MC routine has worked to keep her surfing, just not today. :D
 
Butters & Lyla said:
I'm trying to keep her surfing without sending her skyrocketing with too many carbs
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Personally I think you did an excellent job! If she'd dropped to 38 or something then I'd suggest HC...but it was just a toe dip into shark territory...let's see if she bounces later ... ? She may since it's still early...prepare yourself for the roller coaster ride - as I've said before, 'buckle up'..the ride is going to get bumpy!:p:joyful::facepalm::D
 
Her numbers aren't really coming up on their own, yet:
...
+5.5: 56 (1.5 tsp MC)
+6: 47 (1 tsp HC)
+6.5: 61
+7: 61
+7.5: 65
+8.5: 56 (hungry once again...1 tsp HC + 1 tsp MC) I was just going to do 1 tsp of HC. Lost my concentration. Sorry Butters!
MC = 15% and HC = 21%
 
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Sue and Luci said:
What I see is an effective dose as far as finally getting her into some nice greens, however, she did seem rather intent on visiting the sharks, although with your on-spot monitoring she wasn't likely to get much further than a peek under there - so with meter variance, I'd probably lean toward trying the 3 under 50 - but then again it's your choice.
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I know it is ultimately my choice, I just need some guidance. :) What you wrote here, this makes sense to me as evidence in favour of holding and not shaving. I am thinking of holding.
Of course, I'm sure Butters has a bounce in store for me next after today's lovely run of greens. :rolleyes: I learned from @Wendy&Neko about "shooting through the bounce", so if she bounces later this cycle I'd hold the dose anyways. But that said, I am leaning toward 3 x <50, and going with the assumption that Butters is a cat who does not hold reductions well.
 
Sue and Luci said:
I'll bet she surf for 7 hours...what are the odds? :)

Surf it Butters, surf it!
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I dunno! I hope so!
I'm pretty sure I ruined it with the tsp of HC and the tsp of MC together at +8.5! I got in my head for some reason, thinking she was heading to see the sharks imminently. This cycle of testing and feeding, rinse and repeat, is intense.
 
Teri (Disco NoFurNo) said:
You are doing great guiding her with food! She must have seen how much fun Disco (not me) has when he plays around in deep water, but you got her up nicely...Safe surfing from here on out!
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Thanks Teri! Yep, she's seen what your Disco gets up to in those deep waters alright! We both have. :eek:Disco does not mess around!:)
 
Sue and Luci said:
Personally I think you did an excellent job! If she'd dropped to 38 or something then I'd suggest HC...but it was just a toe dip into shark territory...let's see if she bounces later ... ? She may since it's still early...prepare yourself for the roller coaster ride - as I've said before, 'buckle up'..the ride is going to get bumpy!:p:joyful::facepalm::D
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Thank you, Sue! When I do well with Butters, it is because of what I have learned from you and the other experts around here. Thank you for sharing all of your knowledge and for being there to guide me. :bighug:
 
Today was a bounce clearing out day, based on her pink to blue last night, plus about the right number of cycles. Those sorts of cycles usually have extra downward momentum. Two things to learn from that. One, if you suspect it’s a bounce clearing cycle, don’t be afraid to go a little heavier with the carbs to avoid the sharks. Two, reductions earned on these types of cycles often don’t hold. Your goal is to get the right mix of food and insulin to get her up on her surfboard as long as possible but of course do it safely.
 
One more thing, with calipers, it’s easy to find in between doses. I often snuck Neko down in 0.125 unit amounts, ie. split the difference between two doses in the calipers.
 
We are at +11: 59. I worry she may drop lower by PMPS. I think I need to give her some HC right now to try to get her up a bit more, though. So I'll be delaying shot time by an hour, which is fine.

ETA: Hopefully I did the right thing here. I don't see anyone online to ask. Fed 2 tsp HC & 1 MC.
 
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Wendy&Neko said:
Today was a bounce clearing out day, based on her pink to blue last night, plus about the right number of cycles. Those sorts of cycles usually have extra downward momentum. Two things to learn from that. One, if you suspect it’s a bounce clearing cycle, don’t be afraid to go a little heavier with the carbs to avoid the sharks. Two, reductions earned on these types of cycles often don’t hold. Your goal is to get the right mix of food and insulin to get her up on her surfboard as long as possible but of course do it safely.
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Lesson learned with the carbs this time. :) I think I'll better recognize a bounce clearing cycle next time.
Not taking the reduction, so I will count today's 47 as #1 of the 3x <50 needed to earn a reduction. And/or I'll shave down the next reduction. I use calipers. I cannot imagine shaving doses without using calipers.
 
Don't feel badly ... this is your time to experiment to see how she responds to which carbs and how much...

Just keep your notes as to what you fed her and hope the same formula works as well next time.

Luci never paid any attention to 'what worked last time'...she completely threw those notes, etc. right out of the window!

Maybe Butters will play nicely with you and go along with the program.. But I still expect a bounce is in her near future...you may get a good nights sleep tonight...let's see what cards she's holding at PMPS...:smuggrin:
 
Sue and Luci said:
But I still expect a bounce is in her near future...you may get a good nights sleep tonight...let's see what cards she's holding at PMPS...:smuggrin:
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PMPS: 137. I definitely destroyed the surf. But as you say, gotta experiment some, and so I did. It's all recorded on my spreadsheet for future reference.
Maybe I made today harder on myself by not going direct to HC or being more liberal with it. It was pretty exhausting but again, another lesson for next time.
Thanks again for your help! And dose is being held at 1.75u. :)
 
Butters & Lyla said:
I definitely destroyed the surf.
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I don't think you did that at all! NINE hours in the lagoon - broke her own record today!

Remember Lantus peak effectiveness is only about 12 hours +/- what's in the depot (the mysterious depot that no one ever knows how much is in there)...so it's not at all surprising that she's on the rise.

Now let's see what she can do with her PM dose...maybe she will surprise you???
 
What an exciting afternoon for you and Butters! She must have been paying attention to dropsy Monday :p and wanted to show us all how to surf all day!
 
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