9/06 Farine's trial off the juice

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kimouette

kimouette

Member Since 2012
Hi everyone!

Since Farine had a hypo with the tiniest amount of insulin that can be drawn from a syringe, we are now on a trial with no insulin.
I have a question that does not seem to appear in the protocol : how high can we allow the value to rise before considering we should put Farine back on insulin? I know that normal glucose value should not go above 7.8, but is that what you guys also consider as the highest value we should allow?

Also, what makes things a little complicated right now, is that Farine ALWAYS has a sort of rebound when she goes under 40. It normally lasts for 21 hours. And yesterday she did go under 40 during the PM cycle. So now the values are rising a little. I would be tempted to say that until tonight, we should not consider giving insulin whatever results we get during that "bounce". But is it safe?

See Farine's spreadsheet here : https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/ccc ... hZ1E#gid=0

What are your recommandation?

Thanks a lot!
Kim and Alain
 
Re: 8/24 Farine's trial off the juice

We use 120 as the top of the range for "normal" BG. However, one or two tests that are above 120 does not mean it's a failed OTJ trial. There can be a number of things that would cause isolated, out of range numbers. The 112 that Farine produced today is fine!

Here are the instructions for an OTJ trial:

  • Test at your normal AMPS and PMPS times. Feed multiple small meals throughout the day as much as possible (small meals are less likely to overwhelm a newly functioning pancreas).
  • If your cat is green at your normal test times, no need to test further until the next "PS" time, just feed small meals and go about your day. If he is blue, feed a small meal and test again after about 3 hours. If his number is lower 3-4 hours after a meal, then his pancreas is working!
  • After 2 weeks, if everything is looking good, we have a party!

Sometimes the trial doesn't work the first time and we have to give a little more support in the form of resuming insulin. It's not the end of the world if that happens, we just give him the support he needs. Our goal is a strong remission and it's better to take our time to get that than to rush into remission just to have it fail later on.
 
Re: 8/24 Farine's trial off the juice

Give it the full 14 day trial period, and then decide. Sometimes the numbers can bounce up and down a bit in the first few days and then settle down towards the end of the trial.

Farine is giving an OTJ trial a go,
starting on day one nice and low,
she's a bouncy little girl,
giving that OTJ trial a whirl,
hoping to dump the "juice",
and be fancy free and footloose.

:RAHCAT Go Farine Go! Go all the way to OTJ! :RAHCAT
 

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Re: 8/24 Farine's trial off the juice

Thanks a lot for the precious information Sienne! Where exactly did you find that part of the protocol?

Deb and Liz... THANKS A LOT !!!! Merci beaucoup!!

Farine's pancreas seems to be working by itself!! I still cant believe it! 10 months on caninsulin at 2X3units a day, and now no insulin! It's a second remission for Farine and both Alain and I are soooooooo proud of her!!

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/ccc?key=0AumMJBQ_r05GdGgyTEtXSjR5cjVnXzUtTjNGQTZhZ1E#gid=0
party_cat drinking24
 
Re: 8/24 Farine's trial off the juice

Kim (and Alain):

The OTJ instructions are not "officially" part of the protocol. Several years ago, Libby/Lucy consolidated the information that we were typically telling caregivers. Those of us who stay around to help others adopted Libby's instructions since they were so well stated. The information on the Tilly page (German forum) does indicate that the period of evaluation for remission is 2 weeks but we provide more information about what to do during those 2 weeks.
 
I would not recommend abandoning all testing. Many people will get a few times a week, reduce to weekly, and then to monthly tests. While Farine is in remission, she is still diabetic -- a food controlled diabetic. One thing we've often seen is that BG will rise if a kitty is getting sick or is in need of a dental cleaning or procedure. BG is an incredible early warning system.
 
Dyana, the spreadsheet is now up to date (a test was done 30 minutes ago). It's green.. Yay!!

Sienne, Alain (who is following this thread), knows and understands how tests are important and I know he wont completely give up on testing tomorrow only because the OTF trial will be over. He will do as you suggested (test couple of time a week, then reduce to weekly) and if any symptom shows up his glucometer wont be far away!

But my question was mostly about the fact that during this trial, Farine did get close to the 120mg/dl limit that we consider to be ok without insulin. And because of that, I was wondering if maybe there was a risk for the remission to not be "completed" (even though we know a remission can be temporary)... I dont know if you understand my question here. I've seen other cases of remission where the results were steady green values, with no doubts about the remission really happening. But with Farine, we know her pancreas is working, but I am a little worried about these blue values that occurred while there was absolutely nothing unusual (normal apetite, no stress etc...).

Thanks a lot for your help!!

Kim, Alain and Farine
:)
 
Congratulations!
Mine has been otj now for 10 months and I'm still testing once a week.... just because I want to catch any changes as early as I can to stay in remission.



We had a period months after the trial where we had mid blue numbers(140's ) ....and I thought we would have to have another bout of insulin but she then went to even lower numbers.
Each cat is different.
 
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