8/9 Stu PMPS 278, vet report (not good)

Status
Not open for further replies.
Ella & Rusty & Stu(GA)

Ella & Rusty & Stu(GA)

Member Since 2010
yesterday: viewtopic.php?p=217070#p217070

Hi Everyone,

High PINK to start the day. And a ton of pee in the litterbox (2 enormous clumps in the new clumping litter). My DH thinks the excessive pee is the diabetes and that Stu's dose is too low, but I think it's because of the possible UTI, combined with a possible rebound still from the bg 25 on Aug. 7th. Well, we go to the vet in the late morning and will try to get some answers. I was able to get a urine specimen to take along (yea! followed him outside with a soup ladle). Shot the 0.75 dose this morning (beginning the 3rd cycle on this dose). All Ps are in place. The yogurt in chicken water seems to be working to counteract the Clavamox (this evening will start Day 4 of Clavamox). Stu's cube, with one of his mice in it, was played with vigorously last night and was about 10 feet from where it had been when we went to bed!

Vet appointment is 10:50 A.M. Eastern time (+4.5, approx.). Keep your fingers and paws crossed and send a few vetty vines our way!!

Ella & Stu
 
Re: 8/9 Stu AMPS 389

Good vetty vines to you and Stu....hope the vet will have some thoughts and answers. Poor Stu...well, glad he is taking the Clavamox okay. Raja is IN her cube and hasn't come out to eat yet. She is so smart so I am hoping that she isn't putting 2 and 2 together and realizing that after she eats, she gets the awful Clavamox! She has been pretty good so far....Tomorrow will mark one week...one down, one to go! nailbite_smile
Know you will let us know what happens...meanwhile, hope you both have a good morning.....
 
Re: 8/9 Stu AMPS 389, +2.5 282

Stu is already in yellow so that's a good sign. Sending vetty vines your way, hope they sort out Stu's pee problems. Keep us updated
 
Re: 8/9 Stu AMPS 389, +2.5 282

STU! Hey buddy! No worries now OK - just a little ride in that car thing, a little time with the vetty bean, and you will be home before you know that you have been anywhere. Be good, and let the vet do his thing - it's just easier, cuz then you get out of there sooner! We will be there to help, and cook you a fine meal before we head on out for Trey's party! Be cool dude! ~~ Mannie

'mornin' Ella! Good luck at the vet. I hope that there will be some insight there. Two different parental opinions -- i wonder if both of you, in part, are right?? Sorry on the 389 this morning - poor Stu! Though I bet he was no worse off for it. Mannie never is. Good job on the urine specimen! (I'm still working on trying to get two fecal samples from my civvies - one would think that would be a piece of cake - not..) well - have a great morning, good luck at teh vets, and Mannie and I await an update.
 
Re: 8/9 Stu AMPS 389, +2.5 282

Stu! We had the same number this morning. But I know that now my mommabean is going to want me to come down to yellow like you. I hope nobody pokes you at the vet today. I'm sending you good smelling vines for that vet visit. Love, Blackie
 
Re: 8/9 Stu AMPS 389, +2.5 282

i hope the trip to the vet goes well and that you find out what's happening with your boy.

Tori says to tell Stu that she loved the chicken soup he brought over last night. It all ways makes her feel better. Also not to worry about the trip to the vet . It's no big deal really. "I do it every week so I know you you big strong boy kitty can handle it. I'll see you at the party tonight."
 
!!!!!

STU--ELLA We so missed you!! Hope all will be well with Vetty bean & Stu is doing well!!
I'm taking my civvie on thursday(what an event to get him there!) for check & toofus check--
Hope Stu is just fine-Great Job on the sample--Moonie always pees a lot when she goes to higher numbers--You are terrific!!! HUGS from Roni!!

Hey Stu man!! Heard you are in the vetty right now cat(2)_steam @-) nailbite_smile --But we know all is well with you!!
Hope you are home soon with a good report--Will meet you at Trey's party toinite--We will CELEBRATE!!!! Hugs from Moonie
 
Re: 8/9 Stu AMPS 389, +2.5 282, +4 225, +5.5 183, vet report

Hi again, We're back from the vet. Preliminary urinalysis was inconclusive. There was sugar in his urine (not surprising, since his AMPS was 389 and I got the sample at +1.5), but no blood and no crystals. Vet thought his urine was clear and didn't have much urine concentration (i.e., it was watery, I think). He said that cats with cystisis (?) pee frequent small amounts of heavily concentrated urine. (Stu pees frequently, but large amounts of watery urine). We'll get the rest of the results this evening. Vet said to stay on the Clavamox for 2 weeks. He gave me FortiFlora, too. The vet decided to do a complete blood work-up, since in 2 weeks Stu would be going in for his dental and it would have to be done then in any event. This way we can see if there is anything causing his weirdly fluctuating bg numbers and his heavy drinking and peeing (besides FD, of course). So all of the tests will be done, including the T4 and Free T4. He gave Stu a very light shot of Ketamine so that he wouldn't struggle with the neck-blood test. Stu was a bit unsteady on his feet when we first got home (a 5-minute drive from the vet), but seems lots better now. The first thing he did when he got home was to hack up a hairball. That's my boy!! We're not supposed to give him food until the late afternoon, but I put out a tiny bit of LC just to show him that we care. (He isn't eating it yet.). He's standing at the back door demanding to go outside at the moment. So that's where we are. The vet had a chance to look at his teeth while Stu was under sedation and thought they looked good and strong. There is some tartar/plaque on 2 of his molars, so that will be checked into on Aug. 25, during the dental. The vet also felt all of his organs and didn't find any that were enlarged and didn't feel any lumps or whatever.
So that's where we are. The +4 was done right before we left for the vet; the +5.5 about 1/2 hour after we returned.
Stu thanks his friends for their support!
He'll be at the party this evening, and will be "receiving" this afternoon.
Tomorrow we're going to NY. The vet doesn't see any reason not to go.

Thanks for your concern!

Ella & Stu
 
Re: 8/9 Stu AMPS 389, +2.5 282, +4 225, +5.5 183, vet report

sounds like the vet visit went well and Stu survived the poking and proding.
I'm glad you'll get to go to NY.
 
Re: 8/9 Stu AMPS 389, +2.5 282, +4 225, +5.5 183, vet report

I hate to tell you this but a urine sample that you collect is not sterile and will be inconclusive. Even if bacteria grows, there's not a realistic way to know if it was from the ladle, from something in the air, etc. The only viable means of testing for a UTI is by cytocentesis (needle into the bladder) and then run a culture and sensitivity. The fact that Stu is on Clavamox also renders the test inconclusive. I'm really surprised your vet didn't tell you this. Basically, you're paying for a test that isn't going to tell you much of anything.
 
Re: 8/9 Stu AMPS 389, +2.5 282, +4 225, +5.5 183, vet report

Hi Ella, I'm glad the visit went well. When your vet calls with the results, see if they have the USG (urine specific gravity). This might help explain the watery, large amounts of urine. I hope Stu is feeling better soon.
 
Re: 8/9 Stu AMPS 389, +2.5 282, +4 225, +5.5 183, vet report

Glad you are back...and glad that the vet got the CBC done now. I guess you will update if he has any other news,right?
....the kits say they will see Stu soon....they wanna come over and cheer him up after the vet visit....if that's okay with you. They can then go off to Trey's party tonight from yours...
talk to you later!
 
Re: 8/9 Stu AMPS 389, +2.5 282, +4 225, +5.5 183, vet report

Hi Sienne, Well, bummer on that one! I did sterilize the bottle and wash the ladle in very hot water and soap. The vet's office asked me to get the sample.
I don't know what to say. If Clavamox invalidates the test anyway, then there's no point in taking him back in any event.

thanks and I'll know in the future.

Ella
 
Re: 8/9 Stu AMPS 389, +2.5 282, +4 225, +5.5 183, vet report

Ella-
I'm sorry I didn't see this before you left for the vet or I would have told you the same thing Sienne did. I learned that the hard way, too, so don't feel bad. Hopefully the BW will have some answers for you, or at least give you peace of mind. That's what I'll be doing this week for Buzz as well, so she and Stu can commiserate. I'm glad you get to go to NYC, though! :smile:

Stu-
Glad to hear you are back home and patrolling the grounds! I hope the vetty bean wasn't too mean to you. You got lots of stuff done there, but now it's over and you have friends coming to cheer you up! I'm leaving now and bringing some food and drinks, so get ready to eat, drink, and be merry! See you soon, Stu!
<3, Buzz
 
Re: 8/9 Stu AMPS 389, +2.5 282, +4 225, +5.5 183, vet report

You'd have to wait until the Clav has run it's course. The problem is that Clavamox may not be the right AB for treating the infection, if there is one. The reason behind the cytocentesis and C & S is so that the bacteria is identified and the appropriate AB is prescribed. Dr. Lisa had commented a while back (I can't find the post -- it may have been on the old Board) on this issue. Some vets will indiscriminately prescribe an AB without doing a C & S. It can lead to AB resistant bacteria (just like in humans). I know your vet was trying to help you out by providing something over the weekend but in the long run, it creates problems and unnecessary expense.
 
Re: 8/9 Stu AMPS 389, +2.5 282, +4 225, +5.5 183, vet report

I'm glad that Stu survived the vet visit and hope for good results from the blood work. We are all waiting to hear the results. Have fun in NYC next week, glad you get to go.

Stu, I'm on my way to help get rid of the vetty smell. I hope you like our cooking, we're trying to remember everything you taught us. I'm bringing Trout Paté on tuna Crusts. -=- Tess
 
Re: 8/9 Stu AMPS 389, +2.5 282, +4 225, +5.5 183, vet report

Oh Stu, Emma is in the same boat. I'm pretty sure she has a UTI, but as usual, she didn't let the vet techs get a sample. She peed everywhere instead. Now they're going to do a urinalysis, and I'm going to try to grab a sample (as sterile as I can get, with a sterile disposable cup that I hold under her as she pees) so they can culture it and get her on the right AB. It's hard to catch her sometimes though...she's pretty stealth when it comes to using the box.

Hope you feel better soon Stu! Those uti's are no fun!
 
Re: 8/9 Stu AMPS 389, +2.5 282, +4 225, +5.5 183, vet report

glad to hear that you guys are back .. sorry to hear about the information sienne is giving you ... to bad your vet did not tell you this ...
 
Re: 8/9 Stu AMPS 389, +2.5 282, +4 225, +5.5 183, vet report

glad you guys are home and the vettiebean visit went well. Looks like Stu's numbers are cooperating a bit today...got yourself a blue there! It may be high, but it's better than the stinkus pinkus!

Hey, Stu...can only stay for a while, but glad you made it home from the vettie bean's ok...but man, you gotta go back in a few weeks to get them toofies done...Anyway, I'll be over in a few to help you get on your feet....boy oh boy, you got the good drugs, I see, put you right out...........Spot
 
Re: 8/9 Stu AMPS 389, +2.5 282, +4 225, +5.5 183, vet report

Well glad you are back. Interesting discussion above - who would have thought on the sterile issue. I cannot count the number of times I have been told to get a sample, by whatever means. I do hope all works out OK for Stu. At least they got the BW done. Poor guy, wobbly and all. But I am glad you can go to NYC, and feel Ok about being there, So - get ready for your trip, and have a good time!

Stu - dude! I am on my way. I hear from my momma that you got happy juice so they could get your red stuff. WOW ! You OK? Did it hurt? I am on my way, got lots of good food to bring, so you relax, and we will come take care of you. See you soon! ~~ Mannie
 
Re: 8/9 Stu AMPS 389, +2.5 282, +4 225, +5.5 183, vet report

Recommended reading for many who posted on this thread: http://www.catinfo.org/?link=urinarytracthealth

Kristen & Emma said:
Oh Stu, Emma is in the same boat. I'm pretty sure she has a UTI, but as usual, she didn't let the vet techs get a sample. She peed everywhere instead. Now they're going to do a urinalysis, and I'm going to try to grab a sample (as sterile as I can get, with a sterile disposable cup that I hold under her as she pees) so they can culture it and get her on the right AB. It's hard to catch her sometimes though...she's pretty stealth when it comes to using the box.
Click to expand...

Excerpts from same link:
"'Free-catch' urine samples (urine voided onto an exam table or into a litter box) should not be used for a C & S due to the issue of contamination which will often give a false positive result. In other words, bacteria will grow on the culture that may not even be in the patient's bladder or kidney."

...

"A urine culture and sensitivity is not accurate from a free-catch sample due to contamination issues. However, on rare occasions we may run a C & S from a midstream sample that is caught in a sterile container but interpretation must take into consideration the collection method. If the C & S comes back negative on a free-catch sample, this result is helpful but if it comes back positive, you cannot be sure if the bacteria are from the bladder/kidney or from the very end of the urinary tract or the patient's hair that surrounds the vulva or penis."
 
Re: 8/9 Stu AMPS 389, +2.5 282, +4 225, +5.5 183, vet report

Ella, you did the best you could, but they should have told you they need a sterile urine--Well, if the Clavamox is the right ab, then he will get better--Moonie would never let me do that much!!--She has always gotten the cyto, but a few times she had no urine in there anyway--
Hoping Stu will be fine & sending healing vines to our Dear friend ! Weebles wobbles but they dont fall down--Sending our love to you all!! Have a safe trip in...
Stu man, that cyto is no party, I had it though & was ok--I think you will be just fine & well especially for the party tonite!!!
Let's party down Stu, U know you are one of my BFFs--Hugs & see ya in the Moonlight!!!--Moonie
 
We almost always take urine with a needle from the bladder for a C&S at the clinic where I work according to my vets this is the only way to avoid contamination just their opinion of course I hate doing it since it requires light sedation and syringe to bladder but it works. Best to Stu on getting over this and hope bloodwork is all OK ((((((HUGS)))) from Lisa and the Do Lou
 
Hi again, Everyone, I'm not going to give details tonight because the news we got this evening is not good and I'm depressed: Stu is in the earlier stages of kidney disease (renal failure). I will pick up the test results tomorrow (I can't remember all the numbers the vet told me). Essentially, his CVC is normal (all blood-related stuff is normal), but his kidney BUN and Creatine (?) show kidney disease, as does the "gravity" test. He is somewhat dehydrated and will need sub-cutaneus (?) fluids. Some of the tests (T4, Free T4) had to be sent to a lab and we won't know those results for a few days. All of the blood work will be repeated in 2 weeks to see if any of the values have changed. The vet doesn't want to put Stu under anesthesia for his dental work if there is a chance that the anesthesia might harm him. Better to forego the dental. In any event, we decided that we would not go to NYC this week. The vet didn't say not to, but he sounded sufficiently grave and we made the decision ourselves. 6 hours in the car with insufficient water would not be good for our little guy (he never drinks much of his water in the car, even though he has good access to it). And the weather is supposed to be hot.

So we will see how it goes. The kidney diet is low protein; the diabetes diet is high protein. The vet says that Stu is an established diabetic and we should go with that. He explained everything to us and we were satisfied that he knows what he is doing and that he will do the best for Stu. He said to finish the 2-week course of Clavamox.

Stu is a bit subdued (he was in the room when the vet called), but if he feels up to it, I'm sending him to the party this evening. I'm not sure what to do about his insulin dose. 2 days ago we had the bg 25 and yesterday took a reduction to 0.75. But in the 3 cycles on 0.75 his bg has been pretty high. We'll see what tomorrow brings.

Everyone have a good evening and send good thoughts to Stu. My medical terminology is practically nil, so please take that into account while reading the above!!!

Ella & Stu
 
(((Ella)))) big hugs to you.

many many good thoughts for Stu.

lots of info in health forum, do cross post if you like, get you more eyes on treatment, diet - anything, if you need it.
:YMHUG:
 
ella, get a hard copy of the test results and add a sheet to your ss for labs (like alex and gabby's ss links). there are a few here who are very good at interpreting lab results. cassandra/sasha and wcf/meowzi are two who immediately come to mind. oftentimes things aren't as bad as they initially sound.
 
Ella, sorry to hear the news, but don't stress - there is hope! Emma has the same issue, and was diagnosed almost 3 years ago. I was freaked out and upset and didn't know what to do, but it's all worked out. I give her fluids every other day, and it has kept her BUN and creatinine in the normal range for the past 3 years. It was tough at first, but we both got used to it, and she doesn't even mind at all now. If you can give him a shot, I think you'll be fine giving him fluids!

If I can help you out at all, please feel free to ask. I have done lots of research on where to get the supplies, at least for administering the fluids, so I can tell you where to look. There's also lots of info out there. Here's a post on the main health board by Melissa & Popcorn CKD info that will be helpful.

I know it sounds dire, but don't stress too much- lots of cats with kidney disease live long happy lives!
 
whoa. slow down. get a copy of his labs, take a deep breath, then prepare for lots of reading to do. if vet didn't say bring him in for intensive IV fluids, then it can't be that bad yet.

he's on clav? i don't want to offer false hope, but if he has a UT infection, it *may* distort his renal values. or not. time will tell.
 
I agree, get the numbers and people can help you interpret them. Diet should be manageable, there's lots of help in Health. I've noticed a few people feeding a Royal Canin renal food that is fairly low carb, and I think some people here use Friskies Special Diet. Others use Wellness. My understanding is that it doesn't have to be low protein, but please take others' advice over mine if they say something different.

Fluids are manageable and there are lots of good tips for making that easier too. I hope it will become just part of your routine, just like the FD has.
 
Thanks, guys. This info. will be very helpful when I get a copy of the lab report tomorrow. I feel better already, but I wish I had known about how the urine sample should be collected. That is disturbing!

Ella
 
((Ella)) my dear friend and my sweet Stu.
I have been so busy with my DDs' coming back that I have not been able to
get onto the board.
OMG when my eyes saw Stue and vet report, not good, I flipped
You know there are amazing poeple here, not just for th FD so deep
breath okay??
((hugs)) and ((hugs))

and a big high 5 from your buddy Max.
 
hey there, just wanted to add that i too have had a kidney kitty. she had it for about 2 years.

we fed friskies special diet in my house because it was both low phosphorous (kidney Kitty) and low carb (diabetic Mousie).

but as was said, don't fret too much yet. to be completely honest, other than the sub-q fluid thing kicking our arses at first, kidney disease was no bigger of a deal than the diabetes....probably actually easier. there's lots of people here with kidney experience and tanya's crf site is awesome
 
ah Ella - I am so sorry - but if this is early detection, which it sounds like it is (agree with what WCF said), there is much you can do for Stu. What Libby says is so true - it becomes routine and can be manageable. I know this is devastating news, my heart aches for you. I also know that Stu can be treated for this, just as he is for his diabetes. It is not the end, just a new phase. Get the numbers, let those here that deal with this help you interpret, help you find the path for Stu. I know you can do it - look at all you have done for him already. You can do this too.

On a side note - I know the path you are now on. You cry, but you'll also buckle down and care for your guy. I've had the privilege of caring for many cats, been on the renal failure road so many times. It can be managed, with diet, fluids, and just a whole lot of love. Give Stu a hug for me, and get ready for a new phase. You guys will be just fine.
 
(((Ella & Stu)))

Tons of positive thoughts coming your way. Take things one step at a time. When you have the results, I'm sure you'll get some wonderful feedback and advice. Hugs! It's never easy to hear that your kitty is facing something new. You've got the best support system I can imagine. Lean on us.
 
Ella & Stu said:
Thanks, guys. This info. will be very helpful when I get a copy of the lab report tomorrow. I feel better already, but I wish I had known about how the urine sample should be collected. That is disturbing!

Ella
Click to expand...
i wouldn't put too much stock in a culture, if one is being done (but sounds like it isn't? - a c&s would take three days for final results) because of the collection method. as for the USG (urine specific gravity) - a free catch is fine, that's what we do at home. and the renal values in bloodwork won't be affected by the urine sample collection method. the only unknown here is if there is a UT infection - like i said earlier, that may or may not distort his renal values.

ps - meowzi and i don't like the term CRF. it sounds so dire. prefer CKD (chronic kidney disease) or CRD (chronic renal disease). ;-)
 
:YMHUG: Ella & DH :YMHUG: Hang in there, so many new treatments are available now and it sounds like you caught it early. I was just reading Your Cat by Dr. Elizabeth Hodgkins New research shows that it isn't the protein that is the problem, it is the phosphorus in the protein that causes damage to the kidneys. When you get the blood work labs check the phosphorus levels. Ask your vet about a phosphorus binder. There are lots of other things available too. Get that book, I really wish it had been available 10 years ago when Cleo was sick.

Give Stu scritches for me. He is such a trooper and so are you two. cat_pet_icon :YMHUG: cat_pet_icon :YMHUG: cat_pet_icon :YMHUG:
 
How many condos have you visited where the bean was told that diabetes was a terminal diagnosis and the bean should consider pts? The vet is all doom and gloom. And what do we tell those overwhelmed and upset beans? You're already hearing from people here who are managing FD and CRF. Do what you would tell someone else - take a few deep breaths, the front end of the learning curve is big, but you can do this. Take a look at Stu. Is he down for the count? I doubt it. Do you question your commitment to Stu? Not a chance. You can do this and there are people here who are standing in your shoes and will guide you in exactly they same way that they have guided you with FD.
 
((((Ella))))) ((((Stu))))

Wait until you have all the information in front of you. There are plenty people who can help you here.... chin up girl. You have resources!
 
I hope Stu feels better soon. Sorry to hear about potential kidney issues, but thank goodness you have lots of friends here with experience in that area so you'll get a lot of support (and lots of hugs).
 
Hi Ella!
Though Im very saddened to hear this news, I am going to remain calm FOR you! :mrgreen:
The main reason...most vets offer a grim prognosis when a cat shows signs of crf because they know it is a progressive disease AND often times dont understand that some owners not only want to, but CAN manage it quite well...for years. Latte functioned on 1 kidney for 3.5yrs after the acute renal failure. And I can, with a great deal of confidence, tell you that crf is not what took her in the end. Once we see labwork, people can chime in and interpret for you what is going on and what might be helpful or necessary. For a bit of perspective once you see the labs, Latte's creatinine was in the 10's. BUN off chart (unreadable). Phosphorus 13+.

Stu has been off, but seems to be doing pretty well overall. Just like diabetes, its most important to remember the numbers are not what matter so much. They help guide you with tx, but attitude and how Stu is feeling is most important.

Here is a list to Helen's Yahoo CRF group:
http://pets.groups.yahoo.com/group/feli ... id=6606790
It can be very helpful, and be an additional support.

Helen's website is invaluable!
http://www.felinecrf.org/

Remember, you have a ton of knowledgeable people here, as well. I think there are some links as stickies on the health forum. Do be warned, it can be as overwhelming as FD...depending on where the disease has progressed.

So until tomorrow, when you get the labs and post them (get them hard copy...go pick them up from the vet) I will say a prayer for your peace of mind. My gut thinks its going to be ok! :smile:
 
Hi Ella. I know that you feel like you've been kicked in the gut right now. As the others have said try and take some more deep breathes and wait until you have the numbers in front of you and then post what they are. So many people here know so much about kidney issues and they will be able to guide you. Trust them in this in the way you do with the diabetes. I haven't had to deal with kidney issues but I have given sub cut fluids with Tori for her Pancreatitis attacks and they are doable. They will become part of the routine just as testing and shooting have. I know for certain that you and Stu will be able to handle this. It's another learning curve but you will be able to I know it.

So tonight try and rest and think of all the kitties partying away the night. Tomorrow you will start the learning. You will do well. We are here for you.
 
Angels & prayers coming to keep Stu company and to clear up this problem....He will be find they told us back in Feb/10 that Schooch would most likely have cancer because older cats don`t get UTI wrong!!!!! they said his gravity level was too high well that settled too after his treatment but he had UTI twice in 5 weeks Turned 17 on Monday our sweet baby boy the only one we have had since a kitty..Just saying the other day long time since we had a baby kitty my Mick was 5 months when he found me....All our others 1-3 years strays when we they found us..

Stu man hang in there and let the Angels fix you with that Awesome glowing green healing light Love you man be well Trey
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Back
Top