8/8 Rex AMBG 103/98 - civvie Tanner pancreatitis/IBD questions

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Mandy & Rex (GA)

Mandy & Rex (GA)

Member Since 2017
Last condo was about Rex's urinating issue and Tanner's health issues.

I haven't had to clean up pee since last week (knock on wood). But his BG was extremely unexpected this morning. I fed the cats then went to get the carrier out of the basement for Tanner's ultrasound this afternoon. I found a few puddles of vomit - all dark colored from the wet food. It was fairly fresh. So I thought maybe that's why Rex's BG was high. It's high every time I find vomit.

As for Tanner, no cancer! But he has signs of pancreatitis and IBD. I've seen people posting here about both so I'm hoping they can help me.
 
Yay for no cancer! I'm sure you'll get some good advice about pancreatitis and IBD, but you may want to mention it in your subject line. I hope Rex's tummy settles down. Sending prayers.
 
Hi--
@tiffmaxee is very knowledgeable on this...
My Rico has a bout here and there and we have recently started giving the "poo pill" from https://www.animalbiome.com
He had issues from other things too but it might be worth looking into....
It is good to have cerenia-ondansetron-and fluids on hand to help them thru a episode or even avoid one.
Rico is 19 so I give as prevention as opposed to waiting for it to happen.
:bighug:
 
jayla-n-Drevon said:
Hi--
@tiffmaxee is very knowledgeable on this...
My Rico has a bout here and there and we have recently started giving the "poo pill" from https://www.animalbiome.com
He had issues from other things too but it might be worth looking into....
It is good to have cerenia-ondansetron-and fluids on hand to help them thru a episode or even avoid one.
Rico is 19 so I give as prevention as opposed to waiting for it to happen.
:bighug:
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Thank you. I am not sure how to tell if Tanner is having issues. He's still eating normally. His poop is firm and normal. He's sleeping a little more. What do I look for?? His only symptom was weight loss.
 
Mandy & Rex said:
Thank you. I am not sure how to tell if Tanner is having issues. He's still eating normally. His poop is firm and normal. He's sleeping a little more. What do I look for?? His only symptom was weight loss.
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So what test was run for pancreatitis or was it diagnosed with the ultrasound? Were the labs normal? Was an SpecfPL run? The tests aren't perfect. If he's acting normal I wouldn't do anything.
 
tiffmaxee said:
Pancreatitis is quite common and even more so with diabetics. As Jayla said you need to treat the symptoms. That's great that the ultrasound was normal! There's a primer on pancreatitis but a good article to read is :

http://www.idexx.nl/pdf/en_ie/small...es/feline-pancreatitis-roundtable-article.pdf
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I need to edit the title. This is for my civvie. I'm posting in here because I see it come up so much.

ETA Tanner's labs were all normal except precisionPSL being right at the top of the range with 26.
 
tiffmaxee said:
So what test was run for pancreatitis or was it diagnosed with the ultrasound? Were the labs normal? Was an SpecfPL run? The tests aren't perfect. If he's acting normal I wouldn't do anything.
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No specific tests for pancreatitis. We thought it was either lymphoma or IBD. Then the radiologist noticed the pancreas was thickened.
 
Mandy & Rex said:
We thought it was either lymphoma or IBD. Then the radiologist noticed the pancreas was thickened.
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That's not definitive. Small cell lymphoma cats get pancreatitis too. And weight loss is a symptom. The definitive diagnosis is done via endoscopy or surgical biopsy. Having said that, Neko didn't have either done because her heart couldn't take anesthesia. Did your vet send out blood for a Texas GI panel? Might be useful to know if his B12 is low and needs supplementation. Often IBD/SCL kitties do.
 
Sigh .. so basically I don't know any more than I did before. I need to discuss with my vet what to do next. He wasn't available to talk after the u/s yesterday.
 
To add to what Wendy and I already said, IF, it's lymphoma and IF an endoscopy will give you results, it!s best to act quickly so treatment can start. Small cell moves slowly but large or intermediate can be quick. All can be treated. I just learned of a cat that has had symptoms for awhile and was on Pred. She got into the trash and had to have emergency surgery so biopsies were done and they found both large and small cell. It was surprising to see the large cell as she was eating, including turkey bones from the trash. My theory is the small cell was morphing to large cell. With Tiffany I think she had IBD but didn't realize it and it morphed to intermediate cell. Prayers that whatever this is goes away.
 
tiffmaxee said:
With Tiffany I think she had IBD but didn't realize it and it morphed to intermediate cell. Prayers that whatever this is goes away.
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IBD can morph into lymphoma?? How? How long did Tiffany live? I don't see anything about her in your signature so I'm sorry if it's personal.
 
The thought is that inflammation can cause cancer. I don't know if there is resaearch on IBD morphing into cancer, but I have heard it is a theory. And it's likely what happened to my civie Theo. Cats with small cell can go into remission with daily doses of pred and a once bi-weekly chemo pill. Theo was in remission for 1.5 years, I have heard of some that go as long as 4 years.
 
Mandy & Rex said:
IBD can morph into lymphoma?? How? How long did Tiffany live? I don't see anything about her in your signature so I'm sorry if it's personal.
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As Wendy said it's just one theory. Toffany got kidney disease before she turned 10 and was doing great but had pudding stool once a day on KD. I didn't know enough tgen to realize it was the food and she was fine otherwise until she started vomiting once in a while right after she ate. She then had an u,trasou d followed by a biopsy and was diagnosed with lymphoma about five months later. I'll spare you the details but she was on aggressive chemo until her oncologist screwed up and destroyed her kidneys. She lived about a year with just pred then. I've learned to get copies of all labs and tests now. It helped Max live to 19.
 
:)
tiffmaxee said:
As Wendy said it's just one theory. Toffany got kidney disease before she turned 10 and was doing great but had pudding stool once a day on KD. I didn't know enough tgen to realize it was the food and she was fine otherwise until she started vomiting once in a while right after she ate. She then had an u,trasou d followed by a biopsy and was diagnosed with lymphoma about five months later. I'll spare you the details but she was on aggressive chemo until her oncologist screwed up and destroyed her kidneys. She lived about a year with just pred then. I've learned to get copies of all labs and tests now. It helped Max live to 19.
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I'm sorry to hear about Tiffany's kidneys being destroyed. :bighug:
I get copies of everything after Tanner got hyperthyroidism. He taught me to be more assertive about what I want done. So when Rex got FD, I immediately told the vet I was going to find a FD group. He was fine with that. :)
I haven't spoken with the vet yet about this. :mad:
 
I just heard from the vet via an email. I'm not too happy because the majority was on the finding of cysts and stones in the left kidney, which the radiologist said not to worry about. He did say Tanner had some Persian in his family history based on the cysts.

The vet said they do a novel food diet (kangaroo or duck) to help with the IBD. Does that really help? They also do steroids to help IBD and pancreatitis.

I don't know. :arghh: I'm going to email back and ask if there's any solid evidence he has IBD or pancreatitis and that he doesn't have lymphoma.
 
Im so sorry your going thru this....it is so stressful

FWIW the easiest (and least expensive) way to get a glimpse if it is IBD is to try the novel protien and see if it helps-
they wanted to do a biopsy on Rico but I would not sedate him and treated symptomatically for IBD.
We went thru lots to get where we are and the budesonide did help with the poo and appetite but like Elise said it also caused FD, luckily I caught it quick and was able to get him in remission.
I routinely give him cerenia/ondansetron.... when he was on a steroid he was on a very low dose of lasix.

I recently put him on Canna pet and he is doing very good all around and that may be something to try without any serious risk. https://canna-pet.com
hugs:bighug:
 
Oh Mandy, so sorry you are going through this with your civvie. I like Jayla's idea to try novel proteins to see if it helps. Or you go try going raw and use the same proteins you were using as when they are raw it does not react the same in the body.
 
Bobbie And Bubba said:
Oh Mandy, so sorry you are going through this with your civvie. I like Jayla's idea to try novel proteins to see if it helps. Or you go try going raw and use the same proteins you were using as when they are raw it does not react the same in the body.
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I don't think I can do raw. I looked at it before and it's expensive, especially for 4 cats.

Any recommendations for novel proteins?
 
Additional information: Tanner is eating normally, pooping normally, possibly vomiting, but always hairballs (hard to know who is doing it with 4 cats), etc. I'm not seeing symptoms that I hear are associated with IBD, pancreatitis, etc. The only symptom is the weight loss and I'm wondering if it could be solely from the switch to all wet food, but it's hard to say because the other cats either maintained or gained weight.
 
Mandy & Rex said:
I don't think I can do raw. I looked at it before and it's expensive, especially for 4 cats.

Any recommendations for novel proteins?
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Actually, if you have a butcher that you can get beef, chicken and poultry from , it is actually cheaper than the Nature's Variety , Wellness , and Fancy Feast I was feeding my two. I did the math including the EZ complete supplements and it was cheaper. The chicken and turkey at my butcher is 3.99/ lb.

The Nature's Variety has duck and venison. Bubba liked both. Unfortunately that put peas and carrots in the formula but, I picked them out as they were little chunks.
 
Bobbie And Bubba said:
Actually, if you have a butcher that you can get beef, chicken and poultry from , it is actually cheaper than the Nature's Variety , Wellness , and Fancy Feast I was feeding my two. I did the math including the EZ complete supplements and it was cheaper. The chicken and turkey at my butcher is 3.99/ lb.

The Nature's Variety has duck and venison. Bubba liked both. Unfortunately that put peas and carrots in the formula but, I picked them out as they were little chunks.
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I'm feeding the 13 oz cans of Friskies to my cats and going through about 20 ounces a day (~5 ounces per cat).

How do you keep it so the floor isn't contaminated from the raw meat?? My cats aren't neat eaters. :) And how would I find a butcher? Do you give chunks of meat? How does that work?
 
I'm lucky to have a butcher literally 5 minutes from my house. Google to see if you have a butcher shop near you.

My boys are messy eaters too. They get fed up on top of an old 40's farmhouse enameled top kitchen table that was my grandmom-in laws, so I can wipe it clean easily with Clorox 2. You could always put down plastic table mats that can be easily wiped off.

I am giving my guys raw ground chicken and turkey. So, I have to buy the EZ complete that adds calcium since there is no ground bone in this meat. The best part of feeding them raw, is that we can share food if I run out , I can go to the freezer and borrow some of theirs. :rolleyes:
 
tiffmaxee said:
That's crazy long to wait for a report. Did you at least get a verbal ?
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The verbal was stomach, liver, and bowel were normal. Pancreas was thickened. Left kidney was larger to compensate for the smaller right kidney and cysts and stones were present, but nothing to be concerned about. That's all I got.
 
Makes me question why sc is suspected. Then again unfortunately ultrasounds miss a lot. Was it done by a board certified radiologist?
 
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Mandy & Rex said:
Additional information: Tanner is eating normally, pooping normally, possibly vomiting, but always hairballs (hard to know who is doing it with 4 cats)
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There have been many posts here lately about egg yolks curing vomiting and hairballs. My 2 civvies have stopped vomiting since I started adding 1/3 of a hard-boiled egg yolk to their shared dinner a few weeks ago. Of course it could be they have stopped shedding for summer or something, but not all their puddles included fur. Hope I didn't just jinx myself.
 
tiffmaxee said:
Makes me question why sc is suspected. Then again unfoetubately ultrasounds miss a lot. Was it done by a board certified radiologist?
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Lymphoma or IBD was suspected before the ultrasound. He said there were no signs of lymphoma, but he thinks it's pancreatitis and IBD. I'm questioning that because he said the bowel was normal. That doesn't make sense. He's a board certified radiologist. As for the pancreatitis, I'm going to do the spec fPL test for confirmation. Beyond that, I'm not willing to do a biopsy or endoscopy. I don't want to push Tanner too far.
 
Bobbie And Bubba said:
Actually, if you have a butcher that you can get beef, chicken and poultry from , it is actually cheaper than the Nature's Variety , Wellness , and Fancy Feast I was feeding my two. I did the math including the EZ complete supplements and it was cheaper. The chicken and turkey at my butcher is 3.99/ lb.
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@Bobbie And Bubba, I just requested a sample of EZ Complete. I went to a food market ie butcher shop and got ground chicken at $1.99/lb. I asked if it gets cheaper if it's a bigger order and he said yes. They didn't have ground turkey, but they did have rabbit at 6.99/lb. I'll call and ask more questions after testing the chicken. My DH is going to think I'm crazy.
 
wow! 1.99 /lb is a good price just make sure no hormones and additives are added. Nice that you can get ground rabbit. Surprised you can't get ground turkey. My butcher sells more ground turkey than chicken.
 
Bobbie And Bubba said:
wow! 1.99 /lb is a good price just make sure no hormones and additives are added. Nice that you can get ground rabbit. Surprised you can't get ground turkey. My butcher sells more ground turkey than chicken.
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I don't think they had ground turkey on hand. He did say they can order different meats.

I'm a little nervous. I'm late to the game, you could say, with a 11, 2 - 14, and a 17 year old.
 
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