? 8/6, RAYMOND JAMES AMPS 171, WHAT??

Lee cuzz

Lee cuzz

Member Since 2020
Took two reading, 175, 170. Couldn't believe my eyes. @Wendy&Neko, @Bandit's Mom. Yinz were right. Keep raising insulin to 11 units. So, now I did wrong. Gave 5 units instead of 11. I'm sure he will be high again at next BG reading. Is there a chart on dosing when they decrease BG? I know I shoot on nadir. Is a cycle every 12 hours? Was nervous to give 11 units at that low reading he has never had..
Thanks a million!!! What a balancing act.. @Chris & China (GA)
 
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Congrats on the blue number! :cool:

Next time you get a number lower than you are comfortable shooting, stall without feeding and test in 20 mins to see if he is going up. Post here without feeding/shooting and someone should be around to help you.

I think @Wendy&Neko will stop-in to advice on dosing (since it may be a different for acro cats), but the rule for a reduction depends on the dosing protocol you choose. For newly diagnosed diabetics (less than a year since diagnosis like Raymond James):
  • TR - a drop below 50 (on a human meter) earns a reduction
  • SLGS - a drop below 90 (on a human meter) earns a reduction
With doses below 5U, increases/decreases are in multiples of 0.25U,
Between 5U and 9.5U: in multiples of 0.5U
10U and above: in multiples of 1U

Here's the sticky on dosing protocols followed here:
Dosing Methods: Start Low, Go Slow (SLGS) & Tight Regulation (TR)

Yes, a cycle is 12 hours and there are 2 cycles in a day.

With the reduced dose given today, your cycle count restarts and you would hold the 11U dose for 10 cycles (5 days) from tonight.

I hope I have not confused you with too much information.

Even though you shot a reduced dose, the 11U depot is still at play and will affect this cycle. Please test him more often. I would start with a +1 and +2 and take it from there.



Link to your previous post:
https://www.felinediabetes.com/FDMB/threads/7-27-raymond-james-amps-460-12-551.250469/
 
Bandit's Mom said:
Congrats on the blue number! :cool:

Next time you get a number lower than you are comfortable shooting, stall without feeding and test in 20 mins to see if he is going up. Post here without feeding/shooting and someone should be around to help you.

I think @Wendy&Neko will stop-in to advice on dosing (since it may be a different for acro cats), but the rule for a reduction depends on the dosing protocol you choose. For newly diagnosed diabetics (less than a year since diagnosis like Raymond James):
  • TR - a drop below 50 (on a human meter) earns a reduction
  • SLGS - a drop below 90 (on a human meter) earns a reduction
With doses below 5U, increases/decreases are in multiples of 0.25U,
Between 5U and 9.5U: in multiples of 0.5U
10U and above: in multiples of 1U

Here's the sticky on dosing protocols followed here:
Dosing Methods: Start Low, Go Slow (SLGS) & Tight Regulation (TR)

Yes, a cycle is 12 hours and there are 2 cycles in a day.

With the reduced dose given today, your cycle count restarts and you would hold the 11U dose for 10 cycles (5 days) from tonight.

I hope I have not confused you with too much information.

Even though you shot a reduced dose, the 11U depot is still at play and will affect this cycle. Please test him more often. I would start with a +1 and +2 and take it from there.



Link to your previous post:
https://www.felinediabetes.com/FDMB/threads/7-27-raymond-james-amps-460-12-551.250469/
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Thanks. Blue does look nice on his SS. Definitely not comfortable shooting 11units. I should know this by now. I have read the tight regulation. I know to stall but I though that was for BG numbers under 100. So keep checking his BG today and shoot 11units at PMPS. even if still low??? Thanks. To go from BG600 to 170 in six days, WOW
 
Lee cuzz said:
Thanks. Blue does look nice on his SS. Definitely not comfortable shooting 11units. I should know this by now. I have read the tight regulation. I know to stall but I though that was for BG numbers under 100. So keep checking his BG today and shoot 11units at PMPS. even if still low??? Thanks
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For new members who do not have enough data on their cats and/or have no experience with shooting low numbers, we ask them to stall and ask for help when they encounter a number below 200. With experience, you can shoot any number over 50 (when following TR) - provided you can monitor.

He will probably bounce from these lows, but if the PMPS is low, stall without feeding and post there.

I will also tag a few members who have experience with Acro/IAA cats
@Suzanne & Darcy
@Lisa & Oberon
@FrostD
 
Bandit's Mom said:
For new members who do not have enough data on their cats and/or have no experience with shooting low numbers, we ask them to stall and ask for help when they encounter a number below 200. With experience, you can shoot any number over 50 (when following TR) - provided you can monitor.

He will probably bounce from these lows, but if the PMPS is low, stall without feeding and post there.

I will also tag a few members who have experience with Acro/IAA cats
@Suzanne & Darcy
@Lisa & Oberon
@FrostD
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Thank you. Thought of posting here at AMPS, didn't want to throw his shoot time off and hour or whenever I got and answer. Guess it would have been ok.
 
Lee cuzz said:
Thank you. Thought of posting here at AMPS, didn't want to throw his shoot time off and hour or whenever I got and answer. Guess it would have been ok.
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If he doesn't start heading up in the second half of the cycle, you may want to get a +11 and post here for advice so you have enough time till PMPS to get eyes on your post. :-)
 
Bandit's Mom said:
He is not used to low numbers! Looks like you can shoot the 11U at PMPS.
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You're the best!!. Appreciate it. Guess when he has one low number, had 280, a couple of months ago, continue the high dose unless it is low for how long? If I need immediate advise, do I use the 911 icon??
 
Lee cuzz said:
You're the best!!. Appreciate it. Guess when he has one low number, had 280, a couple of months ago, continue the high dose unless it is low for how long? If I need immediate advise, do I use the 911 icon??
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Since he saw blue on this dose, you would hold this dose for 10 cycles from tonight. Unless he earns a reduction by dropping below 50.

If you need urgent attention, we use the 911 prefix for low numbers (below 50). If you are stalling and need help with shooting, use the ? prefix and edit your title to say something like "STALLING WITH LOW PRESHOT. PLEASE HELP!". That would enable someone scanning the board to know you need help.
 
Just to give some perspective on insulin resistance... if he's got something like IAA or acro but you aren't able to test to find out what specifically is causing the resistance, pretty much all you can do is follow the numbers. Just keep following the protocol and guidance here, and increase the insulin dose (gradually and safely) until you get to an effective dose. For Oberon (who has IAA but not acro), it took three months of gradually increasing to about 10 U before I saw a real response. Leading up to that point, he had occasional brief dips into lower numbers, starting at about 2.5 U. As the dose increased, those dips increased in frequency and duration, until eventually it was like the pattern flipped and he was staying in lower numbers with occasional spikes into high numbers, and started earning dose reductions. Other insulin resistant cats have needed much higher doses to get to that breakthrough dose- every cat is different. That brief dip into blue suggests to me that you're getting closer to an effective dose but probably aren't quite there yet.
 
Lisa & Oberon said:
Just to give some perspective on insulin resistance... if he's got something like IAA or acro but you aren't able to test to find out what specifically is causing the resistance, pretty much all you can do is follow the numbers. Just keep following the protocol and guidance here, and increase the insulin dose (gradually and safely) until you get to an effective dose. For Oberon (who has IAA but not acro), it took three months of gradually increasing to about 10 U before I saw a real response. Leading up to that point, he had occasional brief dips into lower numbers, starting at about 2.5 U. As the dose increased, those dips increased in frequency and duration, until eventually it was like the pattern flipped and he was staying in lower numbers with occasional spikes into high numbers, and started earning dose reductions. Other insulin resistant cats have needed much higher doses to get to that breakthrough dose- every cat is different. That brief dip into blue suggests to me that you're getting closer to an effective dose but probably aren't quite there yet.
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Yes, I'm hoping he stays low after 7.5 months. I have received a lot of education from FDMB, as well as people like yourself. You care and that is very comforting.....!!!
 
With the appearance of the blue it might be helpful to start getting more night tests, at least one at +2. If you have been able to break through the insulin resistance, and we all hope for you that that is the case, he might start dropping when you least expect it as can be seen with Oberon. We're cheering for Raymond James!
 
Hi! My kitty was an Acrocat. Has Raymond James been tested/diagnosed with Acromegaly or as having IAA? I was just looking at your signature for that info.
 
Lee cuzz said:
Thanks. Blue does look nice on his SS. Definitely not comfortable shooting 11units. I should know this by now. I have read the tight regulation. I know to stall but I though that was for BG numbers under 100. So keep checking his BG today and shoot 11units at PMPS. even if still low??? Thanks. To go from BG600 to 170 in six days, WOW
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I know how scary/exciting that first blue preshot is. As long as you are able to test/feed etc. you could have shot the full dose. I get how scary it is though. Wait until your first green preshot!
 
Lee cuzz said:
You're the best!!. Appreciate it. Guess when he has one low number, had 280, a couple of months ago, continue the high dose unless it is low for how long? If I need immediate advise, do I use the 911 icon??
Click to expand...
I definitely agree with Katherine that with blues it would be a good idea to get more tests in the p.m. cycle. Also, just be aware that reductions with acro cats will often be larger than with other cats, i.e. in larger increments.
 
Bhooma gave you the reduction criteria in post number 2.

Congrats on finally seeing a blue! :cool: Raymond James just emphasized what we’ve said before. Night time tests are very important, many, probably most cats, go lower at night. We dose by those lows, so you have to test then.

Next time you see a blue preshot, say above 150, and you are home to monitor, I think you would be OK shooting full dose. Post here and we can help you decide when to test next after that. Below 150, post for help. Stalling is just one option, but it’s situation dependent.
 
PerfumedCatMom said:
With the appearance of the blue it might be helpful to start getting more night tests, at least one at +2. If you have been able to break through the insulin resistance, and we all hope for you that that is the case, he might start dropping when you least expect it as can be seen with Oberon. We're cheering for Raymond James!
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Thanks
 
Wendy&Neko said:
Bhooma gave you the reduction criteria in post number 2.

Congrats on finally seeing a blue! :cool: Raymond James just emphasized what we’ve said before. Night time tests are very important, many, probably most cats, go lower at night. We dose by those lows, so you have to test then.

Next time you see a blue preshot, say above 150, and you are home to monitor, I think you would be OK shooting full dose. Post here and we can help you decide when to test next after that. Below 150, post for help. Stalling is just one option, but it’s situation dependent.
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Thanks. Scary, never that low, I tested him twice. Now back to high again and constant loose stool.
 
Lee cuzz said:
He has not been tested
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Have you considered getting the testing done? Cats at 6 units or above we suggest getting both the tests done for IAA and acromegaly. My girl had both, some have one or the other. Odds are at 11 units, one of those is in play. The answer could tweak our dosing suggestions to you, and there might be some treatments possible for acromegaly if that's there.
 
Wendy&Neko said:
Have you considered getting the testing done? Cats at 6 units or above we suggest getting both the tests done for IAA and acromegaly. My girl had both, some have one or the other. Odds are at 11 units, one of those is in play. The answer could tweak our dosing suggestions to you, and there might be some treatments possible for acromegaly if that's there.
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I don't have the money, unfortunately. thanks
 
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