8/6 Mama PMPS 144, skip dose, +13 119

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Ellen & Mama

Ellen & Mama

Member Since 2011
Can anyone look at Mama's SS and give feedback, I have posted in Feline Health but no luck, and the SS is a little confusing because I just changed from 12:30 pm to 11:30 am dose so the PMPS dose that I skipped was for 1130 am today, last dose was 11:30 pm last night (normally 1230 pm).

Not sure how to fix that without making spread sheet more confusing.

Any feedback appreciated.

History before SS:
8/1
3:00pm …..BG=450 …..1 unit Lantus
8:00pm …..BG=189
8/2
12:00am …..BG=62 …..2.55 dextrose (throughout the night in fluids, plus they gave her some into the IV directly)
2:00 pm …..BG=400+
2:30pm …..BG=450 ……1/2 unit Lantus
8/3
12:00am …..BG=155
4:00am …..BG=273
9:00 am …..ate and vomited (while still at vet)
9:00am …..BG= ??? …..1/2 unit Lantus
(I don't know the order of this because I wasn't there and don't have the records yet, but it seems like she threw up and got the insulin around the same time and didn't really eat until I got her home later)
11:30 am went home from vet
1:00 pm …..BG=50/34 retest …..1/2cc Karo plus a little more in 1/2 hour

Rest on SS

Ellen & Mama
 
Welcome to Lantus Land!

I'm not exactly sure what you'd like feedback on! So far, you've been doing a great job and for not having given a shot, Mama's numbers look wonderful!

A couple of questions....
How did you discover that Mama had diabetes? It sounded like she had a UTI at around the same time you discovered the FD. If I had to guess, she started to respond to the Zenequin and her BG levels started to come down. It may have been the UTI that drove her numbers up.

What were you feeding her and/or what are you feeding now? You mentioned the FF appetizers and some other foods. Not all canned food is created equal when it comes to carbs. If you've switched over to low carb food, that will also effect Mama's BG levels.

Just so you know, you could have adjusted your shot time either in 15 min. increments at each shot or by 30 min. once a day. Obviously, skipping a shot allows you to make a time change all at once, but it's not your only option.

Please take a look at the starred, sticky notes at the top of the Board. There's a huge amount of information contained in them. Below is an outline of what's there:
  • Tight Regulation Protocol: This sticky contains the dosing protocol that we use here. There are also links to the more formal versions -- the Tilly Protocol developed by the counterpart of this group in Germany and the Queensland/Rand protocol developed by Jacqui Rand, DVM and published in one of the top vet journals.
  • New to the Group: Everything you wanted to know about this forum and more. Info on our slang, FAQs, links to sites on feline nutrition and to food charts containing carb counts, how to do a curve and the components to look for, important aspects of diabetes such as ketones, DKA, and neuropathy, and most important, info on hypoglycemia.
  • Handling Lantus: how to get the maximum use from your insulin and what to not do with it!
  • Lantus depot/shed: This is an important concept for understanding how Lantus works.
  • Becoming Data Ready: What data you need in order to be able to work toward remission or tight regulation.
Please let us know if you have questions. We're happy to help.
 
A couple of questions....
How did you discover that Mama had diabetes? It sounded like she had a UTI at around the same time you discovered the FD. If I had to guess, she started to respond to the Zenequin and her BG levels started to come down. It may have been the UTI that drove her numbers up.

A: She had glucose in her urine and BG of 455 at the vet. Vet did say the UTI might be affecting diabetes.

What were you feeding her and/or what are you feeding now? You mentioned the FF appetizers and some other foods. Not all canned food is created equal when it comes to carbs. If you've switched over to low carb food, that will also effect Mama's BG levels.

A: Wet food is all she wants to eat now, and I am having a hard time getting her to eat more than a few bites of anything. Mostly it's Fancy Feast - I know the classic is better with no grain, but sometimes I do the non-classic. She's 19 and only 5 or so lbs so whatever she'll eat.

Just so you know, you could have adjusted your shot time either in 15 min. increments at each shot or by 30 min. once a day. Obviously, skipping a shot allows you to make a time change all at once, but it's not your only option.

A: Thanks for the info - I am trying to read all the Lantus stuff, before I was reading that 1995 article which has different info, and was trying to keep #s between 100-200 most of the 12 hours per the vet, but now am reading about overlapping when dose lasts more than 12 hours.

I guess my question is, do I give her a shot now that BG is rising (thus setting up a crappy 3pm/3am schedule) or wait? From reading the Lantus info it sounds like consistent dosing is most important, and #s should be more between 50 and 100 for well regulated cat, so I don't know. I will keep reading.
 
Hi Ellen.
It looks like Mama is doing real well even with the skipped shots. You have skipped two in a row, now (last night PMPS and this morning AMPS)?

Your spreadsheet is getting confusing. We can help you with that.

I was wondering, you do know that since you skipped a shot, that you can reset your shooting schedule now to whatever works best for you. What shooting times would work best for you?

Also, I was wondering if you think the +1 on the spreadsheet means 1:00am? For instance, if you shoot AMPS like I do at 6:00am, then +1 on my spreadsheet is 7:00am, and the +2 on my spreadsheet is 8:00, the +3 is 9:00am, and so on.
 
I only skipped one shot today, but the spreadsheet is so confusing because the days overlap, because I was doing 1:30 pm or 12 am next day.

I think that's why the +1 ends up being 1 am but I understand it's one hour after the shot, regardless of time, it's just on mine it ended up being around 1 am or 1pm.

I don't know how to fix the spreadsheet should I just start over?

So I skipped today's shot which maybe I shouldn't have, but now BG is rising and is 196 at +3, but I don't want to do 3am/3pm schedule because it's insane, so what do I do to keep consistent dosing, just wait until tonight and for BG to go back up, and give next shot around when I want the schedule to be?
 
Ellen & Mama said:
So I skipped today's shot which maybe I shouldn't have, but now BG is rising and is 196 at +3, but I don't want to do 3am/3pm schedule because it's insane, so what do I do to keep consistent dosing, just wait until tonight and for BG to go back up, and give next shot around when I want the schedule to be?
Click to expand...
That's what I would do. Don't worry about the rising number, you'll get back on track.
What time do you want your shot schedule to be?

We'll try to help you with the spreadsheet. If no one can help you with it tonight, I'll help you in the morning. My brain is just brighter in the morning.
 
Thank you! I think I will do 9am/9pm dosing so will give next shot around then.

I will try to figure out why the spreadsheet is messed up, it seems like I started the pm in the am or something but it's confusing because it was close to the change from 11:30 pm to 12am, and my brain is too fried to figure it out.

Plus I feel like I'm spending so much time trying to figure out/interpret #s that I am ignoring Mama herself!!

Thanks for the help.
Ellen & Mama.
 
Good. So now we have a plan.

For now:
Since you last shot at 11:30pm last night, then 9:00pm tonight will be 21.5 hours after that.
If you want, take a look at my spreadsheet and the AMPS and PMPS boxes for today. I had to adjust my schedule, today.
For your 08/06/11 row, you could put in the AMPS box "SKIP" and in the PMPS box the BG # and then "at+21.5", it all fits in the box, the box will just get bigger.
 
It does get confusing if you think about the times as AM or PM on the clock. Just think about it as your morning or evening shot. That may help!! I agree -- just shoot at 9:00 or whatever time works for you this evening and go from there.

One thing that I've seen come up with our older kitties is that insulin metabolism may not follow the rules. This is true for people, too. The older we get, the more sensitive we are to the effects of medication.
 
Hi good to see you over here. 9:00 does sound like a more reasonable shooting time.

I think Dyana is right, once you get on a regular schedule that extra column in there is just going to be distracting. Just put it in the box w/ the PS number. An alternative is to add an extra row above the days where you have a time shift. Take a look at Tess's SS, row 161 is good example. You will also see that I have a header row with the time I am shooting as well as the + numbers. These rows are always showing so others can see what time you are shooting.
 
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