8/5 Harley ---PMPS 348

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Harley and Pattie

Member Since 2010
It was a good night I thought. Gave Harley a treat before bed and he did not wake me up until midnight. At +6 he was 199 and now a whopping 414. He is down to 6 units. Does this signal that he should go down to 5.5.

I hate the color red!

Pattie

viewtopic.php?f=9&t=21520
 
Re: 8/5 Harley ---AMPS 414

no dosing advice here .... but I don't blame you for hating reds! I hope harley comes down for you today .... have a great day guys!
 
Re: 8/5 Harley ---AMPS 414

Pattie -

I'm not clear on why you reduced Harley's dose from 6.25 to 6.0u. If numbers don't improve, I'm thinking you need to increase, not decrease, Harley's dose. Let's see what some of the others have to say.
 
Re: 8/5 Harley ---AMPS 414

Pattie,

Here are the guidelines for reducing the dose (in the Tight Regulation Protocols sticky at the top of this forum):

Reducing the dose...
--- If kitty drops below 40 (long term diabetic) or 50 (newly diagnosed diabetic) reduce the dose by 0.25 unit. If kitty has a history of not holding reductions well or if reductions are close together... sneak the dose down by shaving the dose rather than reducing by a full quarter unit. Alternatively, at each newly reduced dose... try to make sure kitty maintains numbers in the normal range for seven days before reducing the dose further.

--- If an attempted reduction fails, go right back up to the last good dose.

--- Try to go from 0.25u to 0.1u before stopping insulin completely.


I actually think Harley needs an *increase*. He's not getting enough insulin to help combat the bounces, and on this dose he has not gotten any numbers low enough to make me hesitate to increase. I would probably take him back up to the 6.25 for a few days to see if that is enough.
 
Re: 8/5 Harley ---AMPS 414 How to decide on advice

Ok, so now I am confused. My vet and several people here on Lantus have suggested a reduction in insulin and now several people here are go back to the 6.5.

What do I do????

Pattie
 
Re: 8/5 Harley ---AMPS 414 How to decide on advice

Here is the link to the day where the reduction was discussed... viewtopic.php?f=9&t=211

He had a low number so you reduced it by .50u for a high dose kitty. He is not holding the reduction, so now, the experienced people reevaluate the situation. It is always a matter of looking at the numbers and seeing if the dose reduction is holding. Know what I mean?
The reduction was days ago...now it's time to increase the dose back up again. Does that make sense?
We all go through this with reductions. Situations change and we have to look at what we should do....if the numbers get high again, we go back up to the last good dose....
 
Re: 8/5 Harley ---AMPS 414 How to decide on advice

Your vet is probably thinking about Somogyi rebound. We usually don’t see that here in LL because we work up to doses gradually so we know we have not passed the right dose. In your case, I suppose it is possible because as far as I can tell, you may not have worked up to your dose according to protocol. However, once glucose toxicity sets in (when the cat gets used to being in high numbers), usually the only way to break through the high numbers is by increasing the dose until a breakthrough is reached. Once the breakthrough happens, the cat may require a number of fast dose reductions. But just sitting on a dose that isn’t working, or reducing the dose, usually won’t cause a breakthrough and will just let the cat get even more used to high numbers. That is how a lot of cats end up on very high doses, then suddenly needing a lot of dose reductions.

Whoever suggested going down to 6 units might have been looking at the 39 he hit on 6.5 units. Sometimes reductions of 0.5 units work in higher dose cats so it was worth a try. He hasn’t gotten back to that range, though, so the reduction hasn’t stuck and he needs to go back up in dose to try to get back to green and get rid of red.

Personally, I also don’t see the logic in letting a ketone-prone cat sit in high numbers, I think you need to be more aggressive than some other people.

Have you thought about getting a Precision Xtra meter? It can check blood ketones and will alert you to potential problems earlier than a urine test (and might be easier than stalking the litterbox).
 
Re: 8/5 Harley ---PM shot soon - dose question

Have have read everything people have said and sent today. Now my question is, the PM shot is soon. Do I shoot 6.25 or 6.5. The 6.5 makes me nervous since Harley had some really low numbers on it. Does 6.25 make more sense?

Pattie
 
Re: 8/5 Harley ---PM shot soon - dose question

I actually think Harley needs an *increase*. He's not getting enough insulin to help combat the bounces, and on this dose he has not gotten any numbers low enough to make me hesitate to increase. I would probably take him back up to the 6.25 for a few days to see if that is enough.


Libby previous suggestion seems good Pattie...
if you're not comfortable with the 6.50u right now, go for 6.25u as she suggested

I think Caryl/Alex uses that meter she mentioned - the Precision Xtra - might make things easier for you.

How is Harley doing?
 
Re: 8/5 Harley ---PM shot soon - dose question

He is doing fine but as always crying for food. He gets his shot about 5:45, so I do not feed him after 4:00. The symptoms of diabetes are back (have been for a week). Drinking, hungry etc., but no ketones.

I feel safer with the 6.25, since I will not be home for 10 hours tomorrow and cannot give him food or test him. That is where I was (6.25) until the vet scolded me in an email saying I should be at 6 units.

Is the meter expensive. The strips for the relion are about $20 for 50 and I am going thru at least 6 a day. Not a lot of extra $$ in the budget until next month.

Pattie
 
Re: 8/5 Harley ---PM shot soon - dose question

Hi Pattie,

Ronnie sent me a message that you needed some info about Precision Xtra meter. I use it ONLY when I need to know if there is a potential ketone problem and I can't catch Alex peeing (I much prefer the urine tests)because Alex throws ketones if you look at him the wrong way. :roll:

The meter isn't expensive...you can get it at Walmart for like 14.99 I think? I got mine on Ebay for a little less. The blood ketone tests strips are expensive however and I only get them on Ebay and I search for good prices all the time. The best low price I usually get is 26.00 for 10 strips and maybe 5.00 shipping which is a lot less than the 59.00 that they sell for :shock: It's worth it because the way that I use them a box will last me for several months. I don't find blood ketones to be as reliable as urine testing but if you can't get urine the blood testing DOES tell you that there are or aren't ketones present...even if you can't figure out exactly how high an amount they are. (There are several charts floating around out there comparing blood and urine ketones but when I've done side by side tests it hasn't ever worked out for me. Maybe Alex has magic urine or something). And ultimately it IS important to know whether there are trace ketones or a high amount of them, so I rely on ketodiastix to tell me that.

Hope this helped and I agree about the 6.25 dose :razz:

Hope you and Harley have a good night.
 
After a deep breath, I gave in 10 minutes early to feed and shoot Harley. He was 348 and I gave 6.25 (maybe a bit more). I don't have syringes that have quarter markings, so I guess and choose half way between the full and 1/2 markings.

Thanks to everyone.

Pattie
 
Harley and Pattie said:
After a deep breath, I gave in 10 minutes early to feed and shoot Harley. He was 348 and I gave 6.25 (maybe a bit more). I don't have syringes that have quarter markings, so I guess and choose half way between the full and 1/2 markings.

Thanks to everyone.

Pattie

That's how we all do a .25 dose..we try to figure out where halfway between the full line and the half unit marking is. There are no syringes with quarter unit markings..I don't think we'd be able to see after trying to look at one of those :lol:

If you shoot anywhere that's within 30 minutes of your scheduled time (before or after) it's really not a problem....

Good job :)
 
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