? 8/4 - Milo AMPS 263, +2 218, +4 180, +6 108, +7 84, +8 109, +11 109 - Using AT Meter

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Critter Mom said:
OK. To recap, you're going to do Milo's preshot test at 19:15 CST.

You need to make sure he doesn't eat after 17:15 (so that PM preshot test - PMPS - is not influenced by food. (NB - if Milo shows any signs of distress as described in the How to Treat Hypos guide, follow that instead. Unlikely, but for safety I always like to cover the bases.)


What is your local time right now?

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It is 1:50pm my time right now.
 
To make it ALL worse and now I am sitting her just crying, I just learned that the vet gave me the WRONG syringes and I have been giving him 2 units twice daily instead of what I thought was one unit twice daily.
 
OK folks....We've just discovered that she's been using the wrong syringes.....the ones she has are for 100 units and each line is actually 2U so when she thought she was giving 2 units, she was actually giving 4 and instead of 1 unit, she's been giving 2
 
You are NOT killing him and are NOT failing him!! It's NOT your fault!! I strongly believe it was probably the pharmacist and your vet not making the script for syringes clear enough

NOW that we know, we can move forward with the correct information and help you learn to help Milo!
 
Nope. You are on a steep learning curve, trying as fast as you can to learn all you can. Now that you know, you can get him on the right dose. And then see how things stand. It's possible that too much insulin gave him higher numbers and that a lower dose will drop him down. Lots of people have their cats put to sleep when they get the diagnosis. They failed their cat. You have not.

And our theory here is that higher numbers are always safer than lower ones.

You have a lot of people here holding your hand. You aren't alone. We'll help you figure it out.
 
I have corrected the spreadsheet to show the actual dosage

It's no wonder Milo dropped so much on 7/31!! Your "gut instinct" that told you not to shoot that 134 probably saved Milo's life (or a big vet bill) so your gut instincts are right on!!
 
Learning all the diabetes info is definitely a struggle at first. You should be proud of yourself for working at it. There are many people who would not even try, and would just euthanize the cat.
 
We've all been there..done this..i overdosed gizmo constantly for months before i did a curve..and put the pieces of the puzzle together. He was dropping in the 40's and bouncing up into the 400s... Milo was playing the other day..he knows you're trying to help him. You're in it together..as partners. I know its very frustarting...you have to take it an hour at a time, one test at a time or you'll get overwelmed. You're doing great! you were already home testing by the time you came here, which is wonderful!
 
Danielle,

You will be able to do this. You love Milo and that's why you hunted out this forum. The supportive, knowledgeable, experienced people here will help get you over this hump. Your vet made the mistake, not you. (I know it probably doesn't feel like that right now, but it's the truth. You did not screw up. Your gut instinct prompted you to find help and you have. This is a good thing.)

Again I say it is overwhelming at first, but it really will get easier - and more quickly than you realise right now.

Hang in there. There is an awful lot to take on board in the early days, but this is do-able. And as others have commented above, you are head and shoulders above a significant majority of people whose cats receive a diabetes diagnosis and choose not to treat it. You are saving Milo.

:bighug::bighug:
 
So on 7/31 this is what he got:

PS BG: 509 - Gave 2 units of insulin (But was really 4 units)
BG: 360 at 11:15am
BG: 266 at 7:22pm - Gave 1 unit of insulin (But was really 2 units) - My vet recommended 2 units twice a day and that would have been me giving him a total of 8 units total in a 12 hour period
BG: 177 at 10:13pm

The next morning his BG PS was 134 and this is when I decided to give him NO insulin!
 
Hi Danielle, I'm still a newbie at this too, my kitty was diagnosed a little over a month ago. We still go through some weird numbers that I don't understand the cause of, and I still spend a lot of my waking hours worried about Squaallie's BG going too low, or wondering why it's gone up so high. The second week after he was diagnosed he spent almost every day vomiting up his food, because his system was trying to adjust to a more normal BG. I know so well that feeling of "I just can't do this!"but trust me, you CAN. Milo is depending on you, and you can do this! It's daunting and frustrating, and things still happen that I don't always understand, but all the people here at FDMB are so incredibly knowledgeable and supportive. Listen to their advice and encouragement, and they will help you more than you can imagine. So take a deep breath and hold on, it's going to be a bumpy ride, but so very worth it in the end! Hugs to you and Milo!
 
Squalliesmom said:
Hi Danielle, I'm still a newbie at this too, my kitty was diagnosed a little over a month ago. We still go through some weird numbers that I don't understand the cause of, and I still spend a lot of my waking hours worried about Squaallie's BG going too low, or wondering why it's gone up so high. The second week after he was diagnosed he spent almost every day vomiting up his food, because his system was trying to adjust to a more normal BG. I know so well that feeling of "I just can't do this!"but trust me, you CAN. Milo is depending on you, and you can do this! It's daunting and frustrating, and things still happen that I don't always understand, but all the people here at FDMB are so incredibly knowledgeable and supportive. Listen to their advice and encouragement, and they will help you more than you can imagine. So take a deep breath and hold on, it's going to be a bumpy ride, but so very worth it in the end! Hugs to you and Milo!
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Thank you so much for the kind words. Sounds like our kitties were diagnosed about the same time! I hope you are hanging in there too! I just went shopping and got all supplies for Milo and the CORRECT syringes that he should have had in the first place. I feel better knowing I am on the right track and bought everything that I need. I am all set. Now its up to Milo's body! Prayers to your baby too.
 
I am on track!!!!!!!! I went to the store and got the CORRECT syringes this time, got Ketone strips, and more canned food for my baby. I am HAPPY to announce that Milo happily went downstairs with me to give me his first at home ketone reading. He was peeing and I stared at him and he looked at me like I was crazy! LOL I waited till he was done and then stuck the test strip in the pee puddle and tried not to get any litter on it. For the first time since his diagnosis and assuming I did the test right, he was NEGATIVE!!!!!!!!!!!!! When he was first diagnosed he was +1 for 2 days which put him in the hospital. 2 weeks ago he was TRACE at the vet office now he is NEGATIVE! This was a small victory that I needed after a not so good day. I am getting ready to test Milo in about an hour and do his insulin. I am expecting his numbers to be high tonight since I got a fur shot this morning :( I have to get tonight's injection RIGHT! I will update later tonight! Wish me luck!
 
Critter Mom said:
Danielle,

You will be able to do this. You love Milo and that's why you hunted out this forum. The supportive, knowledgeable, experienced people here will help get you over this hump. Your vet made the mistake, not you. (I know it probably doesn't feel like that right now, but it's the truth. You did not screw up. Your gut instinct prompted you to find help and you have. This is a good thing.)

Again I say it is overwhelming at first, but it really will get easier - and more quickly than you realise right now.

Hang in there. There is an awful lot to take on board in the early days, but this is do-able. And as others have commented above, you are head and shoulders above a significant majority of people whose cats receive a diabetes diagnosis and choose not to treat it. You are saving Milo.

:bighug::bighug:
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Thank you so much for this sweet comment! I really needed this! I will do WHATEVER it takes to save my baby and Diabetes will not WIN!
 
That's the spirit Danielle - keep those diabetes boxing gloves on, it will get easier and you will win the fight for regulation :bighug:

As soon as your spreadsheet is up and running I suggest you mover over to posting in the lantus/levemir support group forum. We'll get you guys sorted :)
 
You go, Danielle - really, you are doing really well! TG you noticed about the syringes!! You are a wonderful Mom to Milo and I promise you, newbie to newbie, this does get easier!!!

:bighug::bighug: Big hugs for you and a scritch for Milo. We are all rooting for you!
 
Danielle & Milo said:
I am on track!!!!!!!! I went to the store and got the CORRECT syringes this time, got Ketone strips, and more canned food for my baby. I am HAPPY to announce that Milo happily went downstairs with me to give me his first at home ketone reading. He was peeing and I stared at him and he looked at me like I was crazy! LOL I waited till he was done and then stuck the test strip in the pee puddle and tried not to get any litter on it. For the first time since his diagnosis and assuming I did the test right, he was NEGATIVE!!!!!!!!!!!!! When he was first diagnosed he was +1 for 2 days which put him in the hospital. 2 weeks ago he was TRACE at the vet office now he is NEGATIVE! This was a small victory that I needed after a not so good day. I am getting ready to test Milo in about an hour and do his insulin. I am expecting his numbers to be high tonight since I got a fur shot this morning :( I have to get tonight's injection RIGHT! I will update later tonight! Wish me luck!
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I follow my kitty around the house hoping to catch him in the litter box to test him for ketones, then when he "assumes the position" I wave the test strip around under his nether parts. He looks over his shoulder at me as if to say, "Lady, have you completely lost your mind?!?", lol! And you'll get tonight's injection right, have faith :-). I gave a fur shot to Squallie this morning, it happens sometimes, just gotta shrug it off and try not to repeat it tonight!
 
***UPDATE*****

I tested Milo PMPS and he was 514 (he came down at least from the prior test) and then tried to get him to eat before shooting and he wouldn't! :( I had no choice but to shoot and then he ate immediately after little booger!

I gave him the insulin and NONE got on the fur this time! YAY!!

Questions for you all:

1.) What happens if your kitty on Lantus will NOT eat before you shoot?
2.) Where do you give your insulin at on the kitty? Scruff, flank, abdomen, etc? Do you tent or roll?
3.) How often do you feed your kitty?

I am getting read to test at +2 to see where he BG is at.

I hope this is a turning point!

THANK YOU ALL for the sweet messages they sure do help me get through my tough days!
 
Hi Danielle - well done on the shot!

I've only just switched to Lantus from Caninsulin and my girl eats no problem so I'm afraid I can't answer your question #1. I believe the insulin needs something to "work with" but I'm not well versed in what to do. I hope someone more experienced can tell you.

#2 - I rotate the shot location and I've added a couple of columns on my spreadsheet to remind me where I last shot. I tent. I'm lucky that if I put a teaspoon of food down, it distracts her while I'm shooting

#3 I feed Genghis right when I test - with Lantus I believe you should feed within 15 minutes of shooting. She has a small snack midday when the pet sitter comes (I'm also getting an automatic feeder for her so I can feed smaller meals throughout the day as many cats on Lantus do well this way). I feed her a token snack (¼ can) when I get home from work so I have at least 2 hours with no food before testing at PM.​

I've been told, especially if I have a number lower than usual at pre-shot and, to take a +1 reading. The BG should be going UP at this point, and it gives me a better idea if I need to steer her with more food (i.e. with an unexpected drop in BG) or feed her a higher carb food (i.e. much bigger drop than I'm used to seeing) and/or stay with her to monitor.

A +2 and a +6 should give you an idea of how Milo is responding to his insulin (except when he's bouncing, this I have no experience with). Spot checking at different times, if you can - I understand you're working from home this week so you could vary the times) will fill in gaps and help you understand how the Lantus is working in his body.

You may be tempted to increase the dose if you get a high pre-shot - don't do it!! I believe Lantus needs consistency. Whatever dose he's on should be held for at least a week (if you are following SLGS, which I am) UNLESS his lowest reading falls below 90, which calls for a .25 reduction. I was terrified to shoot Genghis when she gave me a reading of 170 (and if you don't have enough data, 200 is the cutoff for no-shoot) but I stayed the course and tested like crazy and I have a greater comfort level of how Genghis is reacting - see her spreadsheet for this weekend and today. THIS MAY BE DIFFERENT FOR MILO. When you have your spreadsheet set up it will make more sense - trust me this is an invaluable tool and very important if the more experienced members are going to be able to give you any dosing advice.

There are other considerations for low pre-shot numbers - see the sticky notes in the Lantus/Levemir section. I know it's a lot to digest but I promise it will make sense. Milo's situation is different because of the mixup with syringes and it may take a while for the higher dose to "clear" his system. I really think someone more experienced can help you with that.

Good for you getting through this. Knew you could do it!
 
Danielle & Milo said:
I will do WHATEVER it takes to save my baby and Diabetes will not WIN!
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Danielle - It is SO obvious how very much you love your Milo, how thoroughly committed you are to learning everything you possibly can, and how absolutely determined you are to heal him & beat back diabetes that it really touches the hearts of all of us here! You & Milo WILL get there!!!
:bighug::bighug::bighug:
 
when you wake up tomorrow, can you do me a favor and get a couple tests in the first couple hours from the shot..like +1-+3? I'd like to see exactly how fast he's dropping. As the spreadsheet fills in the puzzle pieces, we'll start to see it come together.
 
Jamie N Gizmo said:
when you wake up tomorrow, can you do me a favor and get a couple tests in the first couple hours from the shot..like +1-+3? I'd like to see exactly how fast he's dropping. As the spreadsheet fills in the puzzle pieces, we'll start to see it come together.
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Yes! I will do a +1 and +3

I am home all week so if anyone else wants to help me and ask me when to test I can do that!
 
HELP!!!

Someone said on my Lantus forum that I SHOULD be using the U100 syringes and not the U30 ones? See their comment below:

Danielle & Milo said: ↑
He was on the U100 instead of the U30 but I bought the right ones tonight. I shot a fur shot this morning so his numbers have been high today and tonight we start his 6 cycle over with 2 units twice a day for the next 3 days (6 cycles).

Person from other forum for Lantus:

"Would you clarify this for us? You should be using u-100 syringes. Those go with Lantus & Levemir, both U-100 insulins. This is really important."
 
You ARE using U100 syringes!! The difference is that these syringes will only hold a MAXIMUM of 30 units...the other ones would hold 100 units

U100 insulin just means there are 100 "pieces" of insulin in a mL....the "U" means a different type of "Unit"
 
Chris & China said:
You ARE using U100 syringes!! The difference is that these syringes will only hold a MAXIMUM of 30 units...the other ones would hold 100 units

U100 insulin just means there are 100 "pieces" of insulin in a mL....the "U" means a different type of "Unit"
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Sorry :( I'm bad at this can't you tell?
 
Danielle & Milo said:
Sorry :( I'm bad at this can't you tell?
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Don't fret, Danielle - it's all very confounding at first. Lantus is an insulin first developed for human use; you use U100 syringes with it. (These syringes can hold a maximum of 30 units of U100-type insulin.) I'm just trying to understand what actually happened earlier; if the vet gave you U100 syringes to use with Lantus, these are the correct syringes.
(Were you confused by the unit markings down the side of the syringe?)
 
@Robin&BB ..U100 syringes also come in different sizes...some ONLY hold 30 units...some hold as much as 100 units....the syringes her vet/pharmacist gave her were U100 syringes that would hold 100 Units of insulin, which are fine for humans that are using 30-40 units at a time, but no good for sugarcats.

Each "line" on the syringe was 2Units....there were 50 "lines" on the side of the syringe

The ones she is using now hold a maximum of 30 units and have half unit markings
 
Chris & China said:
@Robin&BB ..U100 syringes also come in different sizes...some ONLY hold 30 units...some hold as much as 100 units....the syringes her vet/pharmacist gave her were U100 syringes that would hold 100 Units of insulin, which are fine for humans that are using 30-40 units at a time, but no good for sugarcats.Each "line" on the syringe was 2Units....there were 50 "lines" on the side of the syringe. The ones she is using now hold a maximum of 30 units and have half unit markings
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@Chris & China - Thanks for clearing that one up for me, Chris! (Perhaps the vet had the large-capacity syringes for treating diabetic horses??? o_O Good grief!)
 
@Chris & China Ok ... I got lost when (in an earlier post) Danielle referred to "U30 syringes" ... so I thought at first she'd meant U40-type that are used for ProZinc, Vetsulin, etc. - and that perhaps she had simply mistyped in that post, hitting the "4" on her keyboard instead of the "3." Anyway, NOW I get it: The vet wrote a (kinda sloppy) Rx & the pharmacist filled, it not realizing it was for a small animal.
 
Milo's AMPS was 253 and now he is eating!

DO I SHOOT???? HELP!!!!!!!!!!!!

He gets 2 units twice daily and I only have 10 minutes to make a decision and have someone help me!
 
No dosing advice from me, but I think you should probably change your topic heading- GA is for those kitties who have crossed the Rainbow Bridge.
 
Danielle & Milo said:
Milo's AMPS was 253 and now he is eating!
DO I SHOOT???? HELP!!!!!!!!!!!! He gets 2 units twice daily and I only have 10 minutes to make a decision and have someone help me!
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Hi, Danielle - I see on SS that you shot him - good! (General rule = no shot under 200.) You'll want to test around +3 to where he's heading. Did he eat his full ration for you this morning?
 
Robin&BB said:
Hi, Danielle - I see on SS that you shot him - good! (General rule = no shot under 200.) You'll want to test around +3 to where he's heading. Did he eat his full ration for you this morning?
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Hi Robin! Yes I shot 2 units this morning only 20 minutes past his normal shot time. I am testing him at +2 to see where he is at. He ate 3/4 of a can of FF before his shot and then a little more after his shot so he is covered on food! He did really good on eating!!!! I always give him a chicken treat after his shot
 
Excellent! You might want to approach today in mini-curve fashion, as you're looking for his nadir. (That was a very good pre-shot # he popped this morning, btw.) Usually (and I emphasize "usually" because every cat's different) the drop on Lantus is a bit softer than on, say, ProZinc - but that said, we don't know what Milo does after a 263 AMPS. The important thing for you to remember is that hypo-zone is less than 50; he has lots of margin left here so far. You're doing fine: Just don't panic when he starts dropping (i.e., unless he's suddenly dropped to around 60 or less, I wouldn't feed him because you're trying to see - by testing more frequently today - how his pancreas is processing the insulin). Will be interesting to see his # on the next test! Does that make sense? :)
 
****UPDATE****

YAY!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Milo was 218 at +2! I am so glad that I shot this morning! I will test him again at +6.

Today is a GOOD day!!!!!!!!!!
 
Robin&BB said:
Excellent! You might want to approach today in mini-curve fashion, as you're looking for his nadir. (That was a very good pre-shot # he popped this morning, btw.) Usually (and I emphasize "usually" because every cat's different) the drop on Lantus is a bit softer than on, say, ProZinc - but that said, we don't know what Milo does after a 263 AMPS. The important thing for you to remember is that hypo-zone is less than 50; he has lots of margin left here so far. You're doing fine: Just don't panic when he starts dropping (i.e., unless he's suddenly dropped to around 60 or less, I wouldn't feed him because you're trying to see - by testing more frequently today - how his pancreas is processing the insulin). Will be interesting to see his # on the next test! Does that make sense? :)
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This makes TOTAL sense! I just posted his 2nd BG test below. at +2 he was 218! I gave him a small treat. I will not feed him again until 7:00pm tonight just before I shot him for his second dose of insulin. My ACT NOW number will be 68 and I know I have some wiggle room at that number before he would drop to 50 and below. I already have a hypo kit prepared for today in case it happens!

I will be testing him again at +6 unless you think I need an earlier test?
 
Danielle & Milo said:
This makes TOTAL sense! I just posted his 2nd BG test below. at +2 he was 218! I gave him a small treat. I will not feed him again until 7:00pm tonight just before I shot him for his second dose of insulin. My ACT NOW number will be 68 and I know I have some wiggle room at that number before he would drop to 50 and below. I already have a hypo kit prepared for today in case it happens!

I will be testing him again at +6 unless you think I need an earlier test?
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I would test @ +4, too. (You might consider a little cuddle or scritch under the chin as reward after test instead of a treat. Really, even a dinky treat can muddy the BG waters when you're trying to locate nadirs. Just sayin' ...) :p:bighug:
 
Robin&BB said:
I would test @ +4, too. (You might consider a little cuddle or scritch under the chin as reward after test instead of a treat. Really, even a dinky treat can muddy the BG waters when you're trying to locate nadirs. Just sayin' ...) :p:bighug:
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I just decided I will do +4, +6, PMPS, then +6 :)

Ok I will resort to a kiss on his nose instead of treats for today!
 
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