8/28 Stu PMPS 222, +4.5 173

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Ella & Rusty & Stu(GA)

Ella & Rusty & Stu(GA)

Member Since 2010
yesterday: viewtopic.php?p=234139#p234139

Good Caturday Morning, Everyone,

Today is the day we learn how to do fluids. We leave for the vet in 1/2 hour. Nervous!!

Stu slept on the bed all night and didn't even get up for his +9 snack. It was cold (in the 40s this morning). So far this morning he has eaten breakfast in 3 installments (the last one after taking the hated Clavamox). He refused to take his Methimazole pill, even in butter, even in the pill pockets (refused the allergy one and the regular one). Refused to open his mouth at all. We gave up in exasperation and took him outside to check on the chipmunk. When we came in he walked over to the little dish where the pill--in its pill pocket--was sitting and ate it as if it was no big deal!!! All Ps are accounted for (if you consider watching for the chipmunk "play"). My new metal litter scoop works great. Good AMPS this morning and we hope bg will not take a deep sea dive.
More later when we get back from the SQ fluids lesson. Thanks to everyone for all the help and support you gave us yesterday.

Ella & Stu
 
Re: 8/28 Stu AMPS 231

Good luck at SQ Fluids school! I am sure you will do fine. :-D

Nice start for Stu today - lots of yellow kitties today.

Don't you just love it when they refuse all our good intentions? STU! These things are good for you - come on big guy. Too funny on coming in later and eating his med like it was no big deal. I am still struggling with Mannie and the dental rinse - he just does not want to open his mouth - they can be so stubborn!

Hey Stu! What's up dude? My bean says you will be getting extra stuff, like fluids or something... so you will feel even better! Nice dude, I hope you will be good for your bean - sometimes we have to help them out ya know, cuz they get all nervous and stuff. silly beans. how was it? Did they learn it well? later - maybe we can hang out some... ~~ Mannie
 
Re: 8/28 Stu AMPS 231, +2.5 95

Hi Ella,
I know I am too late for uou to see this before you leave. You can use it for future reference...squids will often times LOWER bg's, depending on how much you are giving. Its good to try and give them after nadir if possible. I only gave 50mls or so each day while Latte was diabetic. For us I didnt feel it dropped her, but could give a little extra momentum. With her tendency to drop fast like stu, I had to sometimes move them to a later time. Others have seen definite drops from fluids (usually if giving 100ml+).

Latte and I did fluids daily for 3.5yrs. I beat my head against the wall trying to hold her the way I was shown. After some expirimentation, we found a way that worked best for us as a team (on my lap...in later years on her throne). So dont get toop worried if stu reacts differently at home, and you need to adjust things a little. Ask folks for ideas and watch those video links you have been given.

Also, you will be able to get fluids/lines/needles much cheaper online than from your vet. If you go in to a walmart , or something similar with the ndc number (should be on bag vet gave you, but any of us can give it to you from our bags) you will have more success with getting them to order you a case. You will find a case of fluids to cost an average of 25 bucks. If its via internet, dbl it for shipping. Lines will be a few bucks each, and needles under 10 for 100 (you want terumo, btw). Getting 1 bag, line, and 10 needles alone will often cost around 25 bucks from the vet. So big savings to go elsewhere. You will need a prescription for all of the items.

I hope it goes well today. Stu is such a good boy w/ amazingling, loving beans.

carolyn

(ps- keep meaning to say...plz dont be alarmed if stu gets an upset tummy btwn day 7 and 10 on clavamox. Its not until the middle to end that you see any reactions, if any).
 
Re: 8/28 Stu AMPS 231, +2.5 95, +4.25 115 back from vet

Hi Everyone, Thanks, Carolyn for the great info. Stu may go lower now, since we did the "demo" this morning.

We learned how to give fluids with syringes. 3 35ml syringes in succession (100 ml) twice a week. We are using "butterfly" 22 gauge needles in Stu--3 different locations: top of both hips and behind the scruff of the neck. I learned to draw air into the syringe, attach a 20 gauge needle to the syringe, insert the needle into the port on the fluids bag, inject the air into the bag, and then draw out the fluid. Then one of the butterfly needles gets fixed into position on Stu and I insert the needle on the syringe into the gasket at the end of the little hose that leads to the butterfly needle. And I push on the syringe and the fluid goes through the hose, into the butterfly needle and into Stu. Then I repeat the procedure with the other two syringes. Sorry for the detail, but I wanted to write it down so that I would remember it. (I hope I've remembered it correctly!!)
We tested Stu when we got home and got the 115. Am going to test him again right now (+6). Be right back. 60 at +6. Fed him some Wellness Turkey lunch. +6 is his usual nadir.
Off now to make lunch for DH and myself.
Please tell me if I am doing anything wrong!!!!!

Ella
 
Re: 8/28 Stu AMPS 231, +2.5 95, +4.25 115 back from vet

Not sure about the fluids...but you explained it so everyone can give you feedback on that...
Figures that the fluids will make a kitty go lower...Stu is the ONE kitty who ne4ver needed any assistance in THAT area! :lol:
Glad you checked him right away at +6.
Take it easy with the numbers today Stu!
I know that IMHO you are not doing anything else wrong Ella...you are dealing with all of this with intelligence and grace. You will get this fluid thing down in no time at all! A+ for everything else!!
I know what it was like to get up-to-speed with all the reading in the beginning of FD dx...and now, you are reading so much about so many other issues!! You are doing such a wonderful job .... all the changes you are making for your boy. He is such a lucky boy to have you as his Mama Ella! o:-)
I am so glad that your metal litter scooper is giving you so much pleasure...it was worth twice the price for that happiness in your tone!
:lol: Hope you and DH had a nice lunch...
 
Re: 8/28 Stu AMPS 231, +2.5 95, +4.25 115 back from vet

Wow, that's interesting Ella. I learned to give the fluids with a line from the bag to a needle that gets inserted under the skin. I'm guessing the videos show that way as well. I'm all for whatever works to get it in them, so if Stu's not annoyed with being stuck three times, then go for it. But, if you run into trouble that way you might want to consider using the line and a needle. Here's where I get my stuff, in case it's helpful: I buy my lines from http://www.jorvet.com. If you search J400 you'll find them on there. I've bought them a few times without any prescription. They're $1.40 each, plus a flat rate shipping fee. I get my needles from Direct Medical. If you google Direct Medical CRF you'll find them. I don't believe you need a prescription there either, but I'm not positive on that one. I ordered a bunch the last time and haven't needed to get any for a while. I buy my fluids at CVS. I recently bought a case of 12 bags for $26.24.
 
Re: 8/28 Stu AMPS 231, +2.5 95, +4.25 115 back from vet

I certainly wont be of much help with the way you are doing the fluids. I dont know too many people who do it with syringes, but Im sure there are some folks out there. I think Helen, who runs the yahoo crf group did it that way for her cat. she had some detailed explanations on it. If I can find it, I will post the link.

I think most people just put an iv line in bag port, pop a needle on and poke their cat once because there are a lot less steps and juggling. As one person giving fluids, I could never handle that much going on! If it works for you guys, go for it. Sounds like it went well for all of you - which is good. A good confidence booster! :mrgreen:

When Latte started getting sick, it was often one thing at a time. You have been hit with a lot of stuff at once. I hope you are taking some good breaks for yourself to rejuvinate your body, soul, and mind.
 
Re: 8/28 Stu AMPS 231, +2.5 95, +4.25 115 back from vet

Here ya go! :mrgreen:
General link on sub q fluids/administration and tips:
http://www.felinecrf.org/giving_sub-qs_giving_set.htm

and the syringe method (with photos!):
http://www.felinecrf.org/giving_sub-qs_syringe.htm

Im curious about drawing air into the syringe and then pushing the air into the bag? Is there anyone out there who uses the syringe method and could explain? Ella, did your vet explain? Im just rethinking what you wrote and wondering if that wouldnt contaminate the fluids? Like I said, I have no knowledge of the syringe method.
 
Re: 8/28 Stu AMPS 231, +2.5 95, +4.25 115 back from vet

Hi Ella, you sound so much better now. I know you were worrying a lot about this. I've not heard of doing it that way but if it works great. As Kristen said I think most peeps use the lines, we did, but it has been a while. There is a lot more support available now, we always had to but ours from the vet $$$!
Stu, You're getting stuck MORE!!! :o Sheesh! Does it never end! Want to get away and surf? I uh... came down to green too! -- Tess
 
Re: 8/28 Stu AMPS 231, +2.5 95, +4.25 115 back from vet

Ella, you are awesome!!! So much to deal with at one time, and have such a good attitude. :smile:
Ya know, on the days you want to come here, and whine and complain, we'll understand.. :YMHUG:
 
Re: 8/28 Stu AMPS 231, +2.5 95, +4.25 115 back from vet

Hi again,
Thanks for the tips, Carolyn and Kristen. I think I must have misunderstood the vet about the air thing and also about how to attach the syringe to the tube on the butterfly needle. I think he said to pull air into the syringe and then stick it into the bag of fluid (which is upsidedown) and expel the air, but the procedure on the web page Carolyn sent says to hold the bag right side up and doesn't mention putting air into the syringe. I'll have to get this straightened out on Monday. All these things the vet gave me to take home don't look right! (and DH is no help since he can't see and is afraid of needles: he almost passed out in the vet's office).
I guess I failed the first lesson of Fluid Training School!!
Off now to mow the lawn. Something I'm good at!

Ella
 
Re: 8/28 Stu AMPS 231, +2.5 95, +4.25 115 back from vet

Hi Ella,
We used the syringe method with our CRF cat, Ginger, several years ago. It is a much faster way to get the fluids in, but I don't think it's as comfortable for the cat as the IV line is. We use the IV method with Blackie and he is very patient.

I never injected air into the bag when we used the syringes. And it took me and DH to do it because I would hold the needle in place and he would push the fluids through the syringe. We would fill all 3 syringes with warmed fluids (lactated ringers) and then just change out the syringes in the butterfly needle. I did have a petsitter that was able to do it alone, so it is possible. Also, we would use the syringes several times and then take them back to the vet and they would autoclave them (sterilize) and return them to us. Maybe your DH can help by pushing the syringe while you hold the needle. He doesn't have to look at the needle or put it in Stu. Or maybe DH can hold Stu for you. At first I think it will help if you are both there.

Blackie is gettin 100ml daily, but because it was causng a drop in his bgs and because he became uncomfortable after 75 mls, I now give him 50ml bid. He gets them about an hour after his shot, but Blackie isn't a diver either.

It is intimidating at first, so don't worry if you are not successful at first. Even though we were experienced and Blackie is easy, we still had to make several adjustments in how we did it before we found what works for us. Feel free to ask lots of questions - that's what we're here for.
 
Re: 8/28 Stu AMPS 231, +2.5 95, +4.25 115 back from vet

Thanks, Ele! That is a big help. I think I see what I misunderstood this morning. So you left the butterfly needle in one place and just shot all of the syringes there? This morning the vet said to do it in 3 different places because it would be more comfortable afterwards if all of the fluid was better distributed. But your way sounds much less stressful for Stu. I don't have to do it again until next Thursday, so I have lots of time to fret about it!!!

Stu's bp was 60 at +6 and 93 at +8, and he's enjoyed some great outdoor time, so I guess he's surfing!

Ella
 
Re: 8/28 Stu AMPS 231, +2.5 95, +4.25 115, +6 60, +8 93

Sounds complicated to a person who has never done that before....that'd be me...
happy_205.gif


Glad you are doing it Ella...I am impressed. Sounds like it take some getting used to....

Has Stu ever been on Clavamox before? I know he had it weeks ago... If he hasn't been on it in the past, I thought I would add a little to what Carolyn said earlier...so you won't be concerned if he vomits. Shadow lasted 5 days on it before he vomited. I was told by my vet to stop it for 24 hours and then resume with dosing. That worked for him and he was fine for the remainder of the time on it.
Raja just went the full 2 weeks on it and never got sick once. I fed her then gave it to her twice each day. Fortiflora 4 hours later. I guess ECID. Sorry if you knew all this already, but I just thought I would tell you if you haven't heard this before. If he gets sick on it after awhile, it is not unusual. k?
I am not sure what your vet will tell you to do if he does vomit, but mine said to resume the full course of it after the 12 hours rest. Just like with us, the full course of time for the ABS should be finished to the end.
 
Re: 8/28 Stu AMPS 231, +2.5 95, +4.25 115, +6 60, +8 93

Another day and I have learned even more by reading your posts. I find the syringe method very interesting. When I did this decades ago we just had the line option. I wish you much luck, but am sure that you will be able to handle it all. patience!, it will be awkward at first, but you'll get a system down in no time. AN d no you did not fail your first lesson at fluid training school. We are all here to help.


And nice numbers for Stu! Mannie said he was coming to visit Stu - I hope he made it. :-D He was hopin' for some more lagoon surfin' and some grillin' after wards.
 
Re: 8/28 Stu PMPS 222

Hi again,
Thanks, Pat, for the info. on Clavamox dosing. I did it wrong again, I'm afraid. I gave Clavamox this morning at +2, 2 hours after breakfast (so there would be food in his stomach). I had planned to give the Fortiflora at lunch time (+6), but forgot about it because of the trauma of the aftermath of the "Fluids Lesson". So I gave a little Fortiflora with dinner (PMPS). I gave Clavamox at PMPS +2, but I do not plan to give any more Fortiflora today. There is just too much stuff to give him, or to do to him. It is not fun at all. By the way, how much of a Fortiflora packet do you give at a time?? Stu hates the Clavamox, but it is easier to give than the a/b pill the vet originally prescribed. The Clavamox is only a precaution. Stu doesn't have an infection and only had his teeth cleaned, no extractions. We are only supposed to give it for a week (through Tuesday) and I'm counting the days! Wow, it feels like a hospital around here!

Now, to watch a movie on TV. I'm sorry I didn't get to any condos (except our own) today, but it was a day of stress (and such beautiful weather!) I may get to some condos late tonight. Hope you all had a good day.

Thanks again to everyone,

Ella & Stu
 
Re: 8/28 Stu PMPS 222

ah a movie on TV! Yes - that's the ticket - I think I shall do the same... Have a good night Ella, curl up on the sofa with your guys, and just relax. This will all work out in the end, and you guys will be just fine. Cheers!, now have a nice glass of wine with that movie. uh Stu? -none for you.
 
Re: 8/28 Stu PMPS 222

It's "Anatomy of a Murder" (1959) . We started it last night (had taped it). Very interesting film and great music (the film score is by Duke Ellington).
 
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