8/27 Tigger AMPS 378 +2=355 +4=367
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julie & punkin (ga)
Member Since 2011
Re: 8/27 Tigger AMPS 378 +2=355
you can do that - the main thing, just like always, is to monitor him and see how he responds.
i got thinking about Tigger's yesterday condo - in fact it woke me up about 4am! perhaps i was having sympathy with his hunger!
anyway, one of the areas that those of us with acro cats are not in unison about is how low they can safely go. i'm thinking that it might or might not be correct to assume that their pancreases work. no way to know. what we all agree on is that hypoglycemia numbers start in the 30's and go lower, and one could have a problem with a lotta insulin and a cat with a big shed and it can be a problem getting their numbers up. punkin responds to small amount of carbs and his numbers go up. i would suggest that when you get in a lower numbers situation you test out the situation to see what tigger does and how his body reacts so that you know. the first time after his diagnosis that he went lower, i got scared and just gave him a huge amount of high carbs. what goes up will come down.
another thing i didn't mention yesterday is that with bigger doses and bigger sheds it becomes less of a problem when you skip a shot. i have skipped with punkin and seen zero evidence of a missed shot in his numbers. something to just add to your bag of tricks.
that also means that you don't have to feel compelled to shoot if his numbers are lower than you are comfortable with. my cut-off number is about 120. lower than that i stall first to see if he's rising, but if he's flat, i skip or shoot a reduced dose.
so much of this is cat-dependent - so there are some things for you to learn, then test out with tigger to see how he does.
and yes, i think i'd go up by a unit, as long as you are around to monitor, and see how he responds to it. when he gets closer to healthier numbers then reduce the amount you are increasing by.
you can do that - the main thing, just like always, is to monitor him and see how he responds.
i got thinking about Tigger's yesterday condo - in fact it woke me up about 4am! perhaps i was having sympathy with his hunger!
anyway, one of the areas that those of us with acro cats are not in unison about is how low they can safely go. i'm thinking that it might or might not be correct to assume that their pancreases work. no way to know. what we all agree on is that hypoglycemia numbers start in the 30's and go lower, and one could have a problem with a lotta insulin and a cat with a big shed and it can be a problem getting their numbers up. punkin responds to small amount of carbs and his numbers go up. i would suggest that when you get in a lower numbers situation you test out the situation to see what tigger does and how his body reacts so that you know. the first time after his diagnosis that he went lower, i got scared and just gave him a huge amount of high carbs. what goes up will come down.
another thing i didn't mention yesterday is that with bigger doses and bigger sheds it becomes less of a problem when you skip a shot. i have skipped with punkin and seen zero evidence of a missed shot in his numbers. something to just add to your bag of tricks.
that also means that you don't have to feel compelled to shoot if his numbers are lower than you are comfortable with. my cut-off number is about 120. lower than that i stall first to see if he's rising, but if he's flat, i skip or shoot a reduced dose.
so much of this is cat-dependent - so there are some things for you to learn, then test out with tigger to see how he does.
and yes, i think i'd go up by a unit, as long as you are around to monitor, and see how he responds to it. when he gets closer to healthier numbers then reduce the amount you are increasing by.
julie & punkin (ga)
Member Since 2011
Re: 8/27 Tigger AMPS 378 +2=355
don't forget to link your post from one day to the next. it can be super helpful if someone needs to go back and look. in fact, i think if i were you i'd probably bookmark yesterday's condo, just in case you need to look at it again.
http://www.felinediabetes.com/FDMB/viewtopic.php?f=9&t=50855
don't forget to link your post from one day to the next. it can be super helpful if someone needs to go back and look. in fact, i think if i were you i'd probably bookmark yesterday's condo, just in case you need to look at it again.
http://www.felinediabetes.com/FDMB/viewtopic.php?f=9&t=50855
hnkstr
Member Since 2011
Re: 8/27 Tigger AMPS 378 +2=355
Thanks Julie,
Now I have to figure out the rest of the weekend. I have to be up and into work by 4:15am tomorrow (sunday) morning for some maintenance. Probably looking at 8am or later getting home. I have to somehow get back onto a 4:30am-4:30pm schedule Monday.
With Acro/IAA cats, what can I do to get back to my normal dosing times?
Is it as critical with Acro cats to be stictly on the 12 hour dosings? Or can I bump it up a bit to get back on schedule?
Thanks Julie,
Now I have to figure out the rest of the weekend. I have to be up and into work by 4:15am tomorrow (sunday) morning for some maintenance. Probably looking at 8am or later getting home. I have to somehow get back onto a 4:30am-4:30pm schedule Monday.
With Acro/IAA cats, what can I do to get back to my normal dosing times?
Is it as critical with Acro cats to be stictly on the 12 hour dosings? Or can I bump it up a bit to get back on schedule?
julie & punkin (ga)
Member Since 2011
Re: 8/27 Tigger AMPS 378 +2=355
mmm, in general, lantus has a 12 hour cycle and you want to stick as close to it as you can. then when you can't, you just let it go.
i'm thinking - i see you didn't increase him this morning - so i would think that tonight you could shoot back on time. how far off are you today from your schedule? the concern is that an early shot is like a dose increase. but tigger needs a dose increase. so . . .
so think about how the nadir works - what you don't want is to mess too much with the timing so that you've got a convergence of nadirs - does that make sense?
anyway, if he were mine and you're talking about just a couple of hours early - i'd do it tonight so you're back on track for tomorrow. then tomorrow, since you're going to be gone all day (is that right?) then i'd just go up the .5u. save the bigger 1u increase for when you're available to monitor.
mmm, in general, lantus has a 12 hour cycle and you want to stick as close to it as you can. then when you can't, you just let it go.
i'm thinking - i see you didn't increase him this morning - so i would think that tonight you could shoot back on time. how far off are you today from your schedule? the concern is that an early shot is like a dose increase. but tigger needs a dose increase. so . . .
so think about how the nadir works - what you don't want is to mess too much with the timing so that you've got a convergence of nadirs - does that make sense?
anyway, if he were mine and you're talking about just a couple of hours early - i'd do it tonight so you're back on track for tomorrow. then tomorrow, since you're going to be gone all day (is that right?) then i'd just go up the .5u. save the bigger 1u increase for when you're available to monitor.
hnkstr
Member Since 2011
Re: 8/27 Tigger AMPS 378 +2=355
Well, i'm already off schedule due to getting home late and dosing at 6pm last night instead of 4:30pm.
I dosed at 6am this morning and this evening I think I can do whenever, but tomorrow morning is going to be around 8am. Tomorrow is going to be the day that messes everything up.
So, lets say 8am tomorrow would make 8pm tomorrow night. But I am out the door by 5:45am Monday morning.
I need to eventually get back onto 4:30am - 4:30pm
Again, today i'm flexible, but thinking of keeping it at 12 hour and doing 6 or 6:30pm tonight. I either dose at 3:45am tomorrow or around 8am.
Well, i'm already off schedule due to getting home late and dosing at 6pm last night instead of 4:30pm.
I dosed at 6am this morning and this evening I think I can do whenever, but tomorrow morning is going to be around 8am. Tomorrow is going to be the day that messes everything up.
So, lets say 8am tomorrow would make 8pm tomorrow night. But I am out the door by 5:45am Monday morning.
I need to eventually get back onto 4:30am - 4:30pm
Again, today i'm flexible, but thinking of keeping it at 12 hour and doing 6 or 6:30pm tonight. I either dose at 3:45am tomorrow or around 8am.
julie & punkin (ga)
Member Since 2011
Re: 8/27 Tigger AMPS 378 +2=355
i'm confused about your schedule tomorrow. are you working 4am-8am? i guess what i'm uncertain about is in the evening - can you shoot before 8pm or is that when you get home?
i'm confused about your schedule tomorrow. are you working 4am-8am? i guess what i'm uncertain about is in the evening - can you shoot before 8pm or is that when you get home?
hnkstr
Member Since 2011
Re: 8/27 Tigger AMPS 378 +2=355
Today i think i'm home all day.
Tomorrow morning I have to get up at 3am and be into work at 4:15am and will be there until our Network maintenance is complete. Earliest I will be home tomorrow morning is 7:30am. I am available the rest of the day Sunday, but not sure when to dose the PM as I need to get back onto a Monday morning dose schedule of 5:30am or earlier.
Tomorrow night isn't a problem, I'll be home. Just thinking ahead to Monday morning when I have to be back onto a much earlier schedule.
Today i think i'm home all day.
Tomorrow morning I have to get up at 3am and be into work at 4:15am and will be there until our Network maintenance is complete. Earliest I will be home tomorrow morning is 7:30am. I am available the rest of the day Sunday, but not sure when to dose the PM as I need to get back onto a Monday morning dose schedule of 5:30am or earlier.
Tomorrow night isn't a problem, I'll be home. Just thinking ahead to Monday morning when I have to be back onto a much earlier schedule.
julie & punkin (ga)
Member Since 2011
Re: 8/27 Tigger AMPS 378 +2=355
ok i thought that might be the case but wasn't sure. if i were you, i think i'd go to the early shot this afternoon. tigger's been high, we know he needs more insulin.
you shot him at 6am today - if you shoot him at 4pm today, that's 2 hours early. i think i would either hold his dose what it is, or go up just a tiny because you're giving it early. then tomorrow give it before you go to work, say at 3:45am, then that gets you back on track doesn't it? i've given punkin his shot 1-2 hours early when he was clearly high and i felt confident he wouldn't have a problem from it.
you really do need to increase his dose, though. no other way to see this except that he really needs to have more insulin and get out of those 300's.
eta: the general recommendation is to adjust by 30 minutes a day without problem - or 15 minutes a dose.
ok i thought that might be the case but wasn't sure. if i were you, i think i'd go to the early shot this afternoon. tigger's been high, we know he needs more insulin.
you shot him at 6am today - if you shoot him at 4pm today, that's 2 hours early. i think i would either hold his dose what it is, or go up just a tiny because you're giving it early. then tomorrow give it before you go to work, say at 3:45am, then that gets you back on track doesn't it? i've given punkin his shot 1-2 hours early when he was clearly high and i felt confident he wouldn't have a problem from it.
you really do need to increase his dose, though. no other way to see this except that he really needs to have more insulin and get out of those 300's.
eta: the general recommendation is to adjust by 30 minutes a day without problem - or 15 minutes a dose.
hnkstr
Member Since 2011
Re: 8/27 Tigger AMPS 378 +2=355
Well, was thinking that option through myself, but kind of got my hand slapped for early dosings. ;-)
That's why I ask with Acro and IAA does the situation change?
He is a constant high 300 so I do not see an issue with an early dose because he's not even close to the 200's. His NADIR is mid 300's the past couple days.
This morning was the 3rd dose at 10.5 so I guess that's why I didn't increase.
Just checked him again and +4 is raising, he's up to 367 so I have no problem dosing him at 4pm today.
He's also just had his 4th can of FF and I think he's close to being content, for now. :lol:
He isn't laying in the kitchen now, he actually moved to the computer room! That's a sign I think that food isn't on his mind for once.
Well, was thinking that option through myself, but kind of got my hand slapped for early dosings. ;-)
That's why I ask with Acro and IAA does the situation change?
He is a constant high 300 so I do not see an issue with an early dose because he's not even close to the 200's. His NADIR is mid 300's the past couple days.
This morning was the 3rd dose at 10.5 so I guess that's why I didn't increase.
Just checked him again and +4 is raising, he's up to 367 so I have no problem dosing him at 4pm today.
He's also just had his 4th can of FF and I think he's close to being content, for now. :lol:
He isn't laying in the kitchen now, he actually moved to the computer room! That's a sign I think that food isn't on his mind for once.
julie & punkin (ga)
Member Since 2011
i don't think it changes it, really. lantus works the way lantus works - and with cats 12 hr dosing seems to be the best. to me the deciding factor would be how constantly high he is - in an ideal world you'd stay at 12/12 dosing and increase his dose every 4-6 cycles and he would respond perfectly. but it is a real world, and you need to give it off schedule - and as far as i can see that's the best bet. if he were 150's usually, i might be less interested in the early shot option - in general it's better to let it go late than to move it early. but this is tigger and he's more 350 than 150.
look at punkin's ss in early june. i did several rapid increases - 4 cycles and increase. he was diagnosed 6/2 and it was like he read the news and took off! so i felt like i was chasing him dose-wise for the next month, but then he stabilized.
i think i would give tigger the 4 shots at 10.5, including the early one tonight, and then tomorrow i'd go up to 11. not sure what to do about the fact that you're not able to test mid-cycle tomorrow, but given how high he is, if he were mine i'd go ahead any way. if you feel more comfortable you could wait and increase tomorrow night when you'll be able to catch a mid-cycle number. we'll just have to take it one step at a time.
look at punkin's ss in early june. i did several rapid increases - 4 cycles and increase. he was diagnosed 6/2 and it was like he read the news and took off! so i felt like i was chasing him dose-wise for the next month, but then he stabilized.
i think i would give tigger the 4 shots at 10.5, including the early one tonight, and then tomorrow i'd go up to 11. not sure what to do about the fact that you're not able to test mid-cycle tomorrow, but given how high he is, if he were mine i'd go ahead any way. if you feel more comfortable you could wait and increase tomorrow night when you'll be able to catch a mid-cycle number. we'll just have to take it one step at a time.
hnkstr
Member Since 2011
I hear ya.
If I dose at 3:45am and get home around 7:45am I will get the mid cycle checks in so i'm not super concerned about the increase to 11 units.
I'll be home all day tomorrow, after +4 (unless all hell breaks loose at work tomorrow!)
I'm gonna dose at 4pm today, especially if he's 350+.
If I dose at 3:45am and get home around 7:45am I will get the mid cycle checks in so i'm not super concerned about the increase to 11 units.
I'll be home all day tomorrow, after +4 (unless all hell breaks loose at work tomorrow!)
I'm gonna dose at 4pm today, especially if he's 350+.
julie & punkin (ga)
Member Since 2011
sounds like a great plan. i'm off to a wedding but will stop by and see you later!
julie & punkin (ga)
Member Since 2011
:lol: hopefully you're going to be eating more and he's, uh not as much! as he gets regulated (mostly below 200) he'll eat less. we hope. otherwise there are always loans from the bank! ;-)
Just-As-Appy
Member Since 2010
I looked at Tigger's ss, and I'm thinking that you could increase by a whole unit. If you think of it in percentages, it is a smaller increase than when you went from 3 to 4. When you start seeing numbers consistently in the 200s is when I'd suggest the smaller increases. Also, if your schedule changes often, you might want to think about Levemir when you refill his prescription next. It is a little more flexible than Lantus in the timing.
Just-As-Appy
Member Since 2010
I buy Lev in the cartridges and get 15 mls at a time. I don't think that there is a huge price diff between the Ls/ I just don't want to run to the pharm every 5 days!
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