8/27 Eddie AMPS 470, +1/377, +6/210, PMPS/331, +8/166

[Jen&Eddie]

Yesterday's Condo

Yesterday: AMPS/347, +1/303, +2.5/274, +6.5/189, +7/142, +10.5/122, +11/128, PMPS/127, +1/122, +1.5/98, +2/93, +2.5/89, +3/82, +3.5/64, +4/66, +4.5/66, +5/68, +5.5/79, +6/79, +7/100, +8/124
Today: AMPS/470, +1/377, +2/344, +2.5/333, +6/210, +10.5/224, +11/213, PMPS/331, +1/374, +2/290, +3/276, +4/257, +6/185, +7/176, +8/166

Good morning LL!

DH reminded me that I have Friday off this week, so even though it's only Wednesday today, it's really like Thursday, so that brightened my morning a bit.

I'm still processing the discussion on Eddie's condo last night, and considering what to do in terms of either increasing or trying R, starting this weekend. I hope maybe others reading found the discussion as interesting and helpful as I did. Marje - thank you! I hope you got some sleep. :smile: Thank you also for the visits Deanna, Marilyn, Elise and Wendy!

Eddie actually spent a pretty good stretch in normal (or close) numbers between the end of the AM cycle and the first half of the PM cycle - like 9 or 10 hours, so that's cool. This morning, his body is protesting. I'm not sure whether he's protesting the green numbers themselves, or the drop (although long and stretched out) that happened between AM and PM.

I'm thinking of experimenting the next time Eddie has a cycle like that with backing off on the HC/MC foods some to see if he will surf, like Marje mentioned. In the recent past, he's dropped if I've been too conservative with carbs early in the cycle, but maybe things are different now.

Per Marje's suggestion, I'm going to try eliminating the +6 snack. There may be a mutiny. If I don't post on Eddie's condo again today, I'm probably being held hostage by my cats until the turkey & giblets are handed over. I haven't quite figured out where to "move" that food to, but this AM, I fed extra at +2.5 to make up for what they won't be getting at lunchtime today. Still curious if a later snack might be helpful in situations where Eddie's doing the long slide and is headed lower later in the cycle. Maybe that's kind of a figure it out as you go type of thing.

I do also wonder what, if anything, to do to stop the types of drops that happen when Eddie's jumping off the red cliff. Even DH this AM was like, "OMG, Eddie dropped 100 points at +1." He did add a smidge of leftover 14% to the +1 meal. Not sure whether it makes sense to try to slow the drops from the ugly glucose spike numbers or not.

Have a good day everyone! Vines and hugs to all those who need them today!

 

[tiffmaxee]

Re: 8/27 Eddie AMPS 470, +1/377, +2/344

Hi Jen. Yuck on the bounce. I did stop feeding Max after +4 or +5 if his numbers weren't too low lately and it might be helping so I think that is worth a try. If he complains too much, maybe try a little freeze dried? Max begs the most around 5 a.m. and if I can't stand it that is what he gets.

I too found the discussion about what to do extremely interesting. I bookmarked for the future should I need to try something different as well. I would likely lean toward lev and likely would have switched a few months ago but I can't figure out how I could make my 9:00 a.m. or 5:15 spin classes which vary depending on the day. That is what is helping to keep me sane between Max and my mom. I'll give up sleep but not spin. For you I would think work might make it tough. If you get lucky and the nadir is at the right time and Eddie levels off maybe it would't be so bad. Would you be able to set an alarm to test in the wee hours of the morning and then be able to get back to sleep? That would be a big concern for you I would think. These are just a few of my first thoughts as I ponder what I would do.

 

[Wendy&Neko]

Re: 8/27 Eddie AMPS 470, +1/377, +6/210

Yikes Eddie! No need to drop so fast. Interesting that he did the majority of his drop to +1 and slowed down to +2.

Good luck with "removing" a snack. Neko always had a late afternoon snack and would likely chew my legs off if I didn't produce. Yes, I'm a wimpy momma. :lol: I invested in a bunch of different zero carb snacks and she gets some of those for her late cycle snacks. It isn't much food, but I think it's the idea of the snack, not the size that counts.

 

[Jen&Eddie]

Re: 8/27 Eddie AMPS 470, +1/377, +6/210

Hi Elise,

Feeding at +6 for Eddie was primarily because it was when I happened to be able to stop at home. I'm not sure if that later feeding might or might not help when he's doing the slide, but today, there was no lunch time. The cats were clearly disappointed and tried really hard to make me feel sorry enough for them to give in, but I distributed FD shrimp instead.

I think I'm going to have to shelve the Levemir idea for the time being, given DH's reluctance to switch insulins again (for now). I'm leaning towards tweaking with Lantus before throwing in the towel. I'm not sure if it would be possible for me to shoot, and be able to test at onset and nadir and make that work with working full time. I think I'm going to have to literally write out a schedule and line up a "typical" Lev curve and move it around to see if it might be possible. I'm awful at waking up for alarms to test. About 50% of the time, I "dream test" without actually getting a real-life test when I attempt to do that. I have a hard time falling asleep, but once I'm out, I'm out. I'm better off staying up, or assigning DH to deal with the early morning tests as he's an early bird.

Eddie seems to be sliding today, which is definitely preferable to sitting high and flat the whole cycle, or blasting back down. Hopefully, he'll keep sliding to PS tonight.

 

[Jen&Eddie]

Re: 8/27 Eddie AMPS 470, +1/377, +6/210

Yikes Eddie! No need to drop so fast. Interesting that he did the majority of his drop to +1 and slowed down to +2.

Good luck with "removing" a snack. Neko always had a late afternoon snack and would likely chew my legs off if I didn't produce. Yes, I'm a wimpy momma. :lol: I invested in a bunch of different zero carb snacks and she gets some of those for her late cycle snacks. It isn't much food, but I think it's the idea of the snack, not the size that counts.

Hi Wendy!

Thanks for visiting. Yeah, those early drops are a little baffling, and pretty recent. Several weeks ago (7/20 to be exact), I shot a low PMPS and Eddie had a perfect green surf with almost no food intervention, appeared to be on the rise after running green for several hours, but was lower at AMPS. In hindsight, I think that was an actual inverse curve. The following morning, I shot a green PMPS, and had to stay home with him holding up numbers all morning after I caught him in the 30's at +2.5. Ever since then, Eddie's been doing the early cycle drop routine. I suspect it has to do with the timing on when the receptor cells are up-regulating, so they basically open back up and grab the available insulin and glucose and drop the numbers down fast and furious - i.e. bounce clearing. Or something like that.

I'm a wimp, too. Eddie wasn't really whining for lunch today, but the pack of civilians sure were (giving me the "pathetic starving orphan" look), and I feel bad to feed them and leave Eddie out, so they all had to be satisfied with some shrimpies, (and I felt like a horrible mother to not give them what they want). Hopefully, they will forgive me.

 

[carfurby (GA)]

Re: 8/27 Eddie AMPS 470, +1/377, +6/210, +10.5/224

It will be interesting to see if not giving a +6 snack helps with Eddie's bouncing. It is so hard to not feed a begging kitty. I can't blame you for giving them something.

 

[Jen&Eddie]

Re: 8/27 Eddie AMPS 470, +1/377, +6/210, PMPS/331, +4/257

Hi Carla! Thanks for visiting. I was late getting home tonight form work, but DH assured me that the cats did in fact survive without getting a +6 snack.

I thought Eddie might possibly clear down to PMPS, but he popped back up into the 300's at PMPS. Another big drop tonight from +1 to +2, and now slowly sliding down. Hopefully, he'll keep sliding down at a reasonable rate tonight.

I also realized in looking at my work calendar, that I had actually blocked myself out on the Tuesday after Labor Day, so I actually have a 5 day weekend coming up. I will definitely be taking Friday off, but I may go in on Tuesday, as the world may as well have ended if I take more than a day or two off work. :roll: Since I have a stretch of time off, I think I'm going to proceed with an increase tomorrow night (barring a bounce clearing low pre-shot). I think I'll pick up some R to have on hand for future possible use, but I think I want to try an increased dose first to try to address the bouncing, since I'll be able to monitor closely for several consecutive cycles to ensure that it doesn't take Eddie way too low. May as well take advantage of that time to experiment.

 

[Sandy and Black Kitty]

Re: 8/27 Eddie AMPS 470, +1/377, +6/210, PMPS/331, +4/257

Hi there

Thought I'd pop in and being that I have used R, add my $0.02.

Personally (my opinion) I don't recommend using R unless there is a crisis, namely the presence of ketones, a high dose condition (like IAA and Acro) or both.

Keep in mind when looking at BKs ss -
BK went 2 rounds with DKA and we needed to fight hard to keep the evil rip tide of ketones from pulling him back into DKA. With guidance, we started using R.
This was way before we discovered he was IAA.

So the reasons for the (massive amounts of) R - he was a very sick kitty who we later found out had a high dose condition, IAA.
And he was the first kitty at the FDMB to receive an IAA dx and there was not much to guide us; even the TR protocol was just coming on the scene back then.
Basically we were flying by the seat of our pants (as you can see by his ss).
He had a lot going on but he was not a bouncer or a diver

Ater the IAA started beaking and insulin sensitivity returned it was a new game. On a couple occasions I used R to attempt shooting down a high number but saw that BKs reaction to R had become extreme. I rarely used it after that. I just waited out any high numbers since overall he was clearly heading down the dosing ladder and there were not ketones present.

There are experienced folks like Dyana and Marje who use R solely to put a ceiling on a bounce and can offer their experience and guidance. I just can't speak to that based on my experiences.

I will add that over the years I have seen well intentioned CGs try to use R to help their kitties and get caught in a vicious loop of deep diving followed by high bouncing as a result. The only way out - to stop the R and wait out the resulting (temporary) ugliness while focusing on getting the appropriate Lantus dose. No fun.

one important thing I'll add -

Eddie actually spent a pretty good stretch in normal (or close) numbers between the end of the AM cycle and the first half of the PM cycle - like 9 or 10 hours, so that's cool. This morning, his body is protesting. I'm not sure whether he's protesting the green numbers themselves, or the drop (although long and stretched out) that happened between AM and PM.

Along with unfamiliar lower numbers and steep drops, some kitties bodies will protest the length of time spent in unfamiliar low numbers

We tend to think on a 12/12 cycle to cycle basis however there are sometimes larger patterns that ebb and flow.

 

[Jen&Eddie]

Re: 8/27 Eddie AMPS 470, +1/377, +6/210, PMPS/331, +6/185

Hi Sandy!

Thanks for offering your input! Thankfully we've never had to deal with DKA or ketones, so frankly, trying to find a strategy for dealing with Eddie's bounces is less about treating a sick kitty versus trying to manage his "creative" response to Lantus. ;-)

Since Eddie's had good results in the past to a higher dose to settle the bouncing down, I think that's the strategy that makes the most sense to me at the moment to proceed with. Hopefully, if the bouncing is not as extreme, the bounce-clearing and diving will also be less extreme. The very last thing we need is steeper drops, which will almost certainly result in worsening bouncing, so I think it would be a pretty rare situation where R might even be an option to use with Eddie. Given his propensity for dropping after pre-shot and onsetting early as of late, I think it only might be an option to try if we can catch him really launching into a bounce at least 4 hours or so before the next shot. That assumes that we're actually home to catch him on the rise (which pretty much only happens on the weekend), so it might take the stars aligning for him to give us a chance to even try out R. So, for now, not something I'm going to jump into. :smile:

one important thing I'll add -

Jen&Eddie wrote:Eddie actually spent a pretty good stretch in normal (or close) numbers between the end of the AM cycle and the first half of the PM cycle - like 9 or 10 hours, so that's cool. This morning, his body is protesting. I'm not sure whether he's protesting the green numbers themselves, or the drop (although long and stretched out) that happened between AM and PM.

Along with unfamiliar lower numbers and steep drops, some kitties bodies will protest the length of time spent in unfamiliar low numbers

Definitely! :smile: Eddie seems to forget rather quickly what normal numbers feels like when he starts the bounce/dive/bounce pattern, and has to go back to remedial liver training class. That last stretch in normal numbers lasted longer than the one previously, so that's some progress. The bouncing and diving almost always seems to happen after Eddie flattens out for several cycles, starts really looking good and spending a lot of time in normal numbers, and then starts going too low, necessitating a reduction. Then, the bouncing starts up again. Been through that pattern twice now. ohmygod_smile

We tend to think on a 12/12 cycle to cycle basis however there are sometimes larger patterns that ebb and flow.

This is so true too! It took me months and lots of hindsight to realize that. Even on ProZinc which is theoretically in-and-out, I can now see patterns that covered several cycles that I didn't see at the time. Eddie's "cycles" tend to sort of cover 2-3 12-hour Lantus cycles.

Fingers crossed that a little more juice will settle down the rollercoaster.