8/26 Tootoo - Need a little encouragement

[Tooloo]

Tootoo saw vet today - stayed there most of day because I wasn't able to be home. She doesn't seem to think there's been much change. She did give him a B12 injection at my request. His first B12. He's eating a little. Vet thinks that the change to Fancy Feast might be causing the pancreatitis and wants him to eat DM until he improves. I know DM is not the best thing to give, but she might have a point about the Fancy Feast - not so much that it is bad - but the change might have been too much. She didn't give him insulin today. The last insulin he had was two days ago. He shot up to 220 at the vet - highest in a long time, but came down to 143 before he left and is now down to 139. She still believes he's in remission, although it seems his numbers should be a little lower if he's actually in remission. He has been on higher carbs the last few days just because I'm trying to get him to eat.

She took him off pain meds because she didn't think he needed them.

I would like to know how long it usually takes for a cat with pancreatitis to recover. Would like encouragement from those of you who have experienced it. Also, what do you think about her taking him off pain meds. He doesn't seem to be in much pain. He's mostly just grumpy and not eating as much as I'd like to see.

Debbie

 

[donaleen and Ozy]

Here is how I judge pain in Ozy: If he looks bunched up, if he withdraws info himself and is not engaged with the world, if he acts hungry but won't eat much, if he is really grouchy... those are signs of pain from his chronic pancreatitis. If he is licking his lips and moving his mouth in odd ways, that usually means nausea. Lately I have seen less of those symptoms and I credit the B12 injections.

When he has an acute attack, he throws up and has diarrhea, sometimes for a few days.

Is that what you were looking for? Maybe your cat is different.

 

[Tooloo]

Yes. Thanks Donaleen. I think TooToo is doing better. Do you think the B12 is helping already? He really doesn't seem to be in pain or even nauseous. And he ate so so. He'a mostly annoyed because he has to wear the cone hat until they take catheter out tomorrow.

What do you feed Ozy?

Debbie

 

[Deanie and Boo (GA) and Scout]

You could try a little experiment and give a moderate carb food. There have been several cats here with pancreatitis who could not handle the fat content of the low carb food. My Boo would get sick with anything over 35% fat. He ate the grilled Fancy Feast flavors and did better on that food than any of the low carb varieties because it didn't cause the inflammation of his pancreas.

We also used steroids from time to time if he got really sick. My vet figured he was already diabetic and he was being monitored at home so we would try it to see if it helped. He generally turned around within half a day of a dexamethasone shot. We also had a lot of luck with injectable Pepcid over oral. My vet just sold me a bottle of it and let me decide when he needed it.

 

[donaleen and Ozy]

I think he could have come past the acute attack, but that is just based on my experience with Ozy. I am no big expert.

I do not know how fast B12 works. I think it took more than one shot for Ozy. Maybe thee weeks or so (three shots) before the daily pain meds were necessary.

What is Tootoo's spec fPL reading? Ozy's was 19.5 and his glucose started out in the mid 300's. They told me his pancreatitis is much worse than his diabetes, for what that is worth.

Oh, yes, and I forgot another symptom of pancreatitis pain for Ozy... he gets in the bathtub or on cool tile to cool his belly. He hasn't done that at all in a while.

Ozy is also on Zobaline, which is another form of B12 and that is for his neuropathy (weakness in his back legs). It is my understanding that one form works for neuropathy and another form for pancreatitis, so he is taking both. It is also my understanding that B12 is water soluble and hard to overdose.

 

[Tooloo]

Well, I think he's over this attack. He seems fine now. Phew! I don't know what his specific numbers were on the pancreatitis. I need to update his spreadsheet on the blood sugar, but I still haven't given him insulin in a few days now. He was at 123 tonight.

Might do moderate carb food as suggested. Right now he's eating the Purina DM dry. Didn't think I'd ever give dry again. But I do think it was the Fancy Feast that started the pancreatitis issues.

 

[nepenthe]

Well, I think he's over this attack. He seems fine now. Phew! I don't know what his specific numbers were on the pancreatitis. I need to update his spreadsheet on the blood sugar, but I still haven't given him insulin in a few days now. He was at 123 tonight.

Might do moderate carb food as suggested. Right now he's eating the Purina DM dry. Didn't think I'd ever give dry again. But I do think it was the Fancy Feast that started the pancreatitis issues.

There is a link I posted in my thread related to pancreatitis a few weeks back, where one online vet theorizes that it might be rancid fish oils in canned cat food that is the culprit. To me, this sounds reasonable.

The crazy thing with mine is that whenever I feed him things that others can feed their cats (Wellness Chicken, Nature's Variety Instinct Raw - both less than 4%), my boy's BG goes high. I am beginning to suspect that this isn't because of a glycemic load of the food, but due to some indigestion - maybe the pancreatitis diminished the production of digestive enzymes, which leads to impaired digestion of even the smallest amount of complex carbs (something which doesn't really affect other diabetic cats without p-titis)

 

[nepenthe]

Oh, yes, and I forgot another symptom of pancreatitis pain for Ozy... he gets in the bathtub or on cool tile to cool his belly. He hasn't done that at all in a while.

This. This is exactly what I notice mine doing. Lying on cold tile floors. I put a wrapped ice pack on his belly when he had his flare and went to the vet earlier this month. Doing that for just a few minutes seemed to give him relief.

 

[donaleen and Ozy]

Oh, nepenthe, that is very interesting, both the fish oil and your own observations.

Sienne told me there is a test for pancreatic insufficiency. And then if the cat has that problem, you give them pancreatic enzymes. Ozy has not had the test but I did ask the vet. She is open to the test but then I have to take him in for a blood test again. Not quite ready for that. Besides, he HAS been doing well for him.

It's so hard figuring out what to do. What to feed. What to supplement. How much pain medication to give.

Nepenthe, does your cat have neuropathy? Ozy was doing so much better until this last bounce into the 300's. Back in June he could still jump up on a counter. This morning he could only walk a few steps without stopping.

 

[nepenthe]

Oh, nepenthe, that is very interesting, both the fish oil and your own observations.

Sienne told me there is a test for pancreatic insufficiency. And then if the cat has that problem, you give them pancreatic enzymes. Ozy has not had the test but I did ask the vet. She is open to the test but then I have to take him in for a blood test again. Not quite ready for that. Besides, he HAS been doing well for him.

It's so hard figuring out what to do. What to feed. What to supplement. How much pain medication to give.

Nepenthe, does your cat have neuropathy? Ozy was doing so much better until this last bounce into the 300's. Back in June he could still jump up on a counter. This morning he could only walk a few steps without stopping.

Hi, he doesn't have neuropathy, but just muscle loss from the higher BGs he gets from the ongoing p-titis. With you, it does sound like neuropathy. In my opinion, the best thing to do here is to give him the oral zobaline for neuropathy and injectable B12 for the (hopeful) other benefits.

It seems like every time they get a flare-up, there is more muscle loss, even when the flare only lasts a few weeks.

What I notice is that when I feed him things that, despite being low carb, Wellness Chicken, Nature's Variety Instinct Raw, high BG goes high. After looking these two on that "food chart", I notice that they are both extremely high fat. Wellness Chicken is 2/3 fat, Nature's Variety Instinct Raw is a whopping 75% fat!

So, I am going to give him raw chicken from now on mixed with his canned FF for a while to see if there aren't any complications and then start to grind my own chicken and mix with some of those raw cat mixes sold online. (you have to watch some of them have carb sources - I came across one which had psyllium fibre in it, which would affect BG in a diabetic cat).

One which sounds quite good is Alnutrin

I am convinced that there is something in the commercial canned cat food which is an aggravating, maybe even causal factor in p-titis. And I do think that fat can affect it too.

 

[BJM]

...The crazy thing with mine is that whenever I feed him things that others can feed their cats (Wellness Chicken, Nature's Variety Instinct Raw - both less than 4%), my boy's BG goes high. I am beginning to suspect that this isn't because of a glycemic load of the food, but due to some indigestion - maybe the pancreatitis diminished the production of digestive enzymes, which leads to impaired digestion of even the smallest amount of complex carbs (something which doesn't really affect other diabetic cats without p-titis)

Remember that cats can break down both proteins and fats into carbohydrate chains, which may become glucose. The protein is disassembled into amino acids, then the amino part is removed. The triglyceride has the backbone removed, leaving behind 3 carbohydrate chains.