8/25 Leo AMPS 192, +9 88 +11 86 +12 75 Need shoot help now!

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Re: 8/25 Leo AMPS 192, +6 76 +9 88 +11 86 +12 75 ShootingAdv

Stalling...
You wait 15-20 minutes, without feeding, to see if the number comes up some. Right now, you can't tell, but it looks like it is falling rather than rising, although the numbers are pretty close together.

I don't have any experience with Lantus, so I can't advise on shooting or not shooting...

Carl
 
Re: 8/25 Leo AMPS 192, +6 76 +9 88 +11 86 +12 75 ShootingAdv

I do know you have three options -

Skip the shot.

Shoot a "BCS" dose (big chicken s**t) :smile:

Stall until you see a rising number for sure, then shoot (I think) a reduced dose or the "normal" dose.

Please wait though for someone with lots of experience before shooting?

Carl
 
Re: 8/25 Leo AMPS 192, +6 76 +9 88 +11 86 +12 75 ShootingAdv

I'm waiting ... nervous, don't know what to do. Don't want to skip a dose since we've been all over with different doses, and he's LOW which is wonderful. Don't want a roller coaster. I am able to test all night if needed. I don't want to screw this up.
Thanks
 
Re: 8/25 Leo AMPS 192, +9 88 +11 86 +12 75 Need shoot help n

I read the pre-shooting low numbers and it seems I keep testing with no food, and then shoot as soon as the values start to go up. But what value do I shoot (we decided to lower him to 2.0u) and how long can I wait before I'd have to skip I shot? I imagine I can't keep testing for hours and finally give the shot.
 
Re: 8/25 Leo AMPS 192, +9 88 +11 86 +12 75 Need shoot help n

He's going to make this tough!! I think you should stall a bit longer. Re-test in 20 min. I'd like to see Leo's numbers coming up a bit before you shoot.
 
Re: 8/25 Leo AMPS 192, +9 88 +11 86 +12 75 Need shoot help n

Yes, I agree. I don't want to shoot now. I don't understand his numbers are going back down, but I'm a newbie. I will test in 20 minutes.
 
Re: 8/25 Leo AMPS 192, +9 88 +11 86 +12 75 Need shoot help n

I wonder if he's just coming down now, because you fed at about +9, and his pancreas is helping him to come down now.
 
Re: 8/25 Leo AMPS 192, +9 88 +11 86 +12 75 Need shoot help n

+40 min 75

He's hungry. I'm a mental mess and he's wandering around mellow batting bugs off the screen door.
 
Re: 8/25 Leo AMPS 192, +9 88 +11 86 +12 75 Need shoot help n

At +9 he ate about 1/8 a can of FF. After each test, he gets a couple little pieces of the freeze dried salmon 100% protein snax. Other than that, he hasn't had food since this morning.
 
Re: 8/25 Leo AMPS 192, +9 88 +11 86 +12 75 Need shoot help n

Hi Lisa. I need to go to log off now as I have to work tomorrow. Sienne and others will be here to help you tonight.
I'll check in with you in the morning. You are in good hands.
 
Re: 8/25 Leo AMPS 192, +9 88 +11 86 +12 75 Need shoot help n

OK Lisa, You have your meter & strips? low carb,med carb & high carb food,? Karo syrup or honey, or maple syrup? Then You are in control!
You have all you need to help Leo control his BG drops...I Know the fear & the upset in the beginning, and understand how you feel, but You will be able to know how to work these events as time goes on..
You are doing a good job, testing is so important, & all will come to you soon--Do read the stickys--They help!
Hugs & Love from us!
 
Re: 8/25 Leo AMPS 192, +9 88 +11 86 +12 75 Need shoot help n

Those first strings of green can be both exciting and unnerving. How about a test at +13? Let's see if Leo decides to be on the rise by then.
 
Re: 8/25 Leo AMPS 192, +9 88 +11 86 +12 75 Need shoot help n

I have everything except the medium carb.... I have lc, hc and karo. I know I should be able to mix stuff to get mc.

I see the stickies. I will test again at +13 and post it. I am not shooting yet ( just confirming!)
 
Re: 8/25 Leo AMPS 192, +9 88 +11 86 +12 75 Need shoot help n

Roni and Moonie said:
Right now he is surfing :mrgreen: and has nice green numbers!!
Click to expand...

Yeah - I wish this were permanent and I could just throw everything out! But seriously, I read the stickies on shooting low and low values. It doesn't talk about how long you wait. I'll keep testing, but at some point do we just skip a dose? Or shoot a lower dose? I just don't have the experience ... but I sure am getting it :shock:

BTW - thanks for coming over and helping out. Nice to meet you!
 
Re: 8/25 Leo AMPS 192, +9 88 +11 86 +12 75 Need shoot help n

Surfing!

Here's my thinking. The probablility is that if you shoot, it's going to take a couple of hours for Lantus onset plus you will have fed Leo. During that time, numbers should be coming up.

Also, a late shot acts like a dose reduction.

The question is, what dose are you comfortable shooting?
 
Re: 8/25 Leo AMPS 192, +9 88 +11 86 +12 75 Need shoot help n

I need to catch up a little for this afternoon. But generally on a low preshot like this we stall without feeding and look for a surf or a rising number on it's own. If not going up after 2 hours we skip the shot. If you stall you should not do a BCS (Big chicken sh** shot)

So, options are:
-- Stall and wait for the BG to rise (without feeding), then give full dose, if you stall your next shot will be 12 hours from the time you actually gave the shot. This could cause schedule problems later.
-- Give a BCS on time (because a late shot acts like a reduced dose so don't do both stall and BCS)
-- Skip the shot
 
Re: 8/25 Leo AMPS 192, +9 88 +11 86 +12 75 Need shoot help n

Okay, I've tried to work it out ... what does a BCS mean? I know, Big Chicken S**T!)

Is that the normal dose amount?

And to Sienne - I don't know WHAT I'm comfortable shooting. I've apparently been shooting too high the last couple times, so I'm afraid and would like to be conservative. I don't have a feel for how high he will go with the food, etc. No experience.

A late dose is like a dose reduction .. why? I understand the effect is less in the beginning, but it would just stretch out the effect and go over into the next cycle, right?
 
Re: 8/25 Leo AMPS 192, +9 88 +11 86 +12 75 Need shoot help n

Lisa & Leo said:
A late dose is like a dose reduction .. why? I understand the effect is less in the beginning, but it would just stretch out the effect and go over into the next cycle, right?
Click to expand...

Oh wait, I think I understand ... it's a reduction because you delay the shot afterwards, right? If I shot now, then I have to wait 12 hours from now, rather than from when he was supposed to be shot. And overall, that would be less insulin over that longer period of time.
 
Re: 8/25 Leo AMPS 192, +9 88 +11 86 +12 75 Need shoot help n

When you push the shot time later, there's less overlap between the previous dose and the current dose. Thus, the late shot acts like a dose reduction. Conversely, if you shoot early, there's more overlap and the early shot acts like a dose increase.

If you were to give your current dose, it would be 2.0u. To be honest, with Marje sick, I don't know if I'll be able to stay up with you if you shoot the 2.0u and Leo's numbers drop. (I'm a little hypothyroid and my energy sometimes runs out unexpectedly.) We won't leave you to fend for yourself with low numbers. I'd suggest a reduced (i.e., BCS) dose. What wold you think about 1.75u? (And all things being equal, you'd go back to 2.0u at AMPS -- which will be 12 hours from whenever you shoot tonight.)
 
Re: 8/25 Leo AMPS 192, +9 88 +11 86 +12 75 Need shoot help n

You got it and also in the meantime the shed has been draining. What's the latest you can shoot? You can move back 15 minutes every cycle (or 1/2 hour per day) w/out too much effect. Any more and it acts like an increase because there isn't enough overlap.

An yes, a BCS shot is a temporary reduction for saftey.
 
Re: 8/25 Leo AMPS 192, +9 88 +11 86 +12 75 Need shoot help n

So, +13 and 40 minutes ... 72. He's not going up.

If I shot now, it would be 2 hours past his normal time. I suppose we could work his dose back 15 minutes at a time, but that will take 4 days. I don't know if my husband can do that exactly. Can you BCS for a couple days to get back on schedule faster?

Can I shoot a *little* BCS and work him back to his regular time a little faster?

Oh this little poor kitty.
 
Re: 8/25 Leo AMPS 192, +9 88 +11 86 +12 75 Need shoot help n

Give me a minute or three to catch up on what's been happening
 
Re: 8/25 Leo AMPS 192, +9 88 +11 86 +12 75 Need shoot help n

Nope. It doesn't work that way. You can either shoot early by 15 min. at each shot or 30 min. once a day without it having a big effect on the numbers. If there's a bounce, you can shoot early. Alternatively, if you skip a shot, you can get back on schedule in the morning.
 
Re: 8/25 Leo AMPS 192, +9 88 +11 86 +12 75 Need shoot help n

I need to run out and do some shopping but I will be back in 1 - 1 1/2 hours and can stay on board with Lisa after that throughout the cycle

ETA - that is if you think you can get back on track after shooting this late Lisa :smile:
 
Re: 8/25 Leo AMPS 192, +9 88 +11 86 +12 75 Need shoot help n

So it sounds like we are burning his shed and if I skip the shot we've lost several days getting him back with some shed in him and high numbers back down. Or, I shoot tonight whenever his values go up, and I deal with the -15 for several days until he's back on track, but his shed and values may be better. However, it's now 2 hours past his normal shot time. It seems like (if I can't do a little BCS) that I should be skipping a dose. Which I am disappointed to do, but I'm nervous about doing at this point - he's never had a string of good constant numbers like this before and I have no idea if he'd tank with a dose.
 
Re: 8/25 Leo AMPS 192, +9 88 +11 86 +12 75 Need shoot help n

Well, his numbers may drop but you've had some experience steering the numbers with food. Serryn, Vyktor's bean will be back. Marje will be on the Board in a little while and Carl sent me a PM saying he'll be able to look in, as well. If Leo's numbers drop, there are people here to back you up. It doesn't have to be tonight, but at some point, you're going to need to shoot lower numbers. You saw today that even with a quick drop, Leo's numbers flattened out.

The bottom line is that there's no way to predict if Leo will continue to surf, if his numbers will drop, or if he'll bounce this cycle. You need to be comfortable with whatever decision you make.
 
Re: 8/25 Leo AMPS 192, +9 88 +11 86 +12 75 Need shoot help n

Exactly right, Lisa. You do what you feel comfortable with, but know you'll have plenty of spectators if you decide to shoot.

Carl
 
Re: 8/25 Leo AMPS 192, +9 88 +11 86 +12 75 Need shoot help n

I'm going to do the dash to the shops now to get it over with as fast as possible will check in immediately I get back (no longer than 1 1/2 hours) to see if you've shot and stay with you if you have :smile:
 
Re: 8/25 Leo AMPS 192, +9 88 +11 86 +12 75 Need shoot help n

Ok, I'm going to skip the dose. It's going on 11pm here and I'm getting pretty tired after the last couple days of roller coasters. On Monday, I'll be out of town and he'll only be monitored before shots and 1 nadir, so having him on the high side would be safer, than having him bouncing around low. Tomorrow I'll get up in the morning and shoot him 15 minutes with 2.0u before his normal shoot time to get insulin in as quickly as I can. Actually, we were reducing the dose from 2.25 to 2.0u. So actually I'll shoot one more 2.25u in the morning, knowing that he's burned some shed, unless his numbers look good. I'll shoot 2.25u if they are above 400ish.

He hasn't eaten. I'll give him some food now and get up once in the night to spread it out. I'll probably give him less than I would otherwise to slow down a spike.

Does that sound like a reasonable plan?
 
Re: 8/25 Leo AMPS 192, +9 88 +11 86 +12 75 Need shoot help n

You can shoot at whatever time you'd like tomorrow. Skipping allow you to get back on schedule. If you're going to be traveling the early part of the week, I'd lean toward shooting the 2.0u in the morning. Remember, dose is not based on your pre-shot number. It's based on nadir.

I would list the tests you got this even in their respective +time on your SS (e.g., the +13 would be your +1, etc.) but either put a 0 or a dash mark in the dose column so we'll know that you skipped.
 
Re: 8/25 Leo AMPS 192, +9 88 +11 86 +12 75 Need shoot help n

Sienne and Gabby said:
You can shoot at whatever time you'd like tomorrow. Skipping allow you to get back on schedule. If you're going to be traveling the early part of the week, I'd lean toward shooting the 2.0u in the morning. Remember, dose is not based on your pre-shot number. It's based on nadir.

I would list the tests you got this even in their respective +time on your SS (e.g., the +13 would be your +1, etc.) but either put a 0 or a dash mark in the dose column so we'll know that you skipped.
Click to expand...

Yes, you've told me that before, sigh, and I needed it pounded into my head again. Thank you. I will shoot 2.0u and update my SS accordingly.

Thank you to everyone who is here, and who offered to stay with me through this shot. I really appreciate it, and am quite amazed and happy at having found this forum and all of you. Leo just got a little FF, and he is running around like a terror chasing mousies. I'll post updates tomorrow and we'll see how bad his values get :0
Lisa and Leo
 
Re: 8/25 Leo AMPS 192, +9 88 +11 86 +12 75 Need shoot help n

Lisa,
You are doing great!
You may see some higher numbers again but Leo will come back down in a good way.
Try to be patient and step back and look at the big picture.

It's all good for Leo and you are in good hands.
The learning curve here is very steep.
 
Re: 8/25 Leo AMPS 192, +9 88 +11 86 +12 75 Need shoot help n

Rhiannon said:
Try to be patient and step back and look at the big picture.
Click to expand...

Excellent advice, Lisa. Here's some stuff you said:
He does come running for the tests, though, it's quite funny. I yell "time for a treat!" and open the microwave, and there he is!
Click to expand...
I'm a mental mess and he's wandering around mellow batting bugs off the screen door.
Click to expand...
Leo just got a little FF, and he is running around like a terror chasing mousies.
Click to expand...

Lisa, all of that? That's "big picture" stuff.

Tonight you decided to skip the shot. When I read your reasoning, I couldn't agree with you more:
Ok, I'm going to skip the dose. It's going on 11pm here and I'm getting pretty tired after the last couple days of roller coasters. On Monday, I'll be out of town and he'll only be monitored before shots and 1 nadir, so having him on the high side would be safer, than having him bouncing around low.
Click to expand...

Skipping the shot isn't going to set you back to square one by any means. And realizing that you are pretty much at the end of your rope, well, that's probably the best reason to skip you could have.

I just read the whole two pages of posts in this condo again. I can't recall how many times you make a remark like "I learned something" in the past twelve hours. It was a long day for you and for Leo, but look at all you've learned in just one day! Overall, I would say this was a great day for you and for Leo.

Don't be surprised if his numbers are a big bit high in the morning. That can come from a bounce from these lower numbers, and from skipping the shot. Or, you might be pleasantly surprised and see a number at AMPS that isn't really that high.

So, get a good night's sleep, and tomorrow is a whole new day. :smile:

Carl
 
Re: 8/25 Leo AMPS 192, +9 88 +11 86 +12 75 Need shoot help n

Hi Lisa!

I hope you see this in the morning. A belated welcome to our LL family. You've been getting some great advice and help and you've done a wonderful job. Leo's SS is looking great!

You might be surprised how quickly Leo gets back on track. Skipping a shot is not something any of us do lightly but sometimes it is the best thing to do for safety reasons. We all seem to focus primarily on our kitties but it is also important to know when you've reached your exhaustion limit.

You will probably see me around more in the evenings as I am on west coast time so can stay up later to help out members.

We're glad you found us. Keep those great questions coming...you will have many and we will help you :-D
 
Re: 8/25 Leo AMPS 192, +9 88 +11 86 +12 75 Need shoot help n

Marjorie, Serryn, Carl, Jane, Sienne, Dyana, Rhiannon, (and anyone I missed)

Thank you all so much for your encouragement after my decision. It was such a hard decision, and I realize I just didn't have the data to shoot. Your encouragement in my decision, especially after I made it and saw his horrible values in the night, help me not cry so much.

Lisa and Leo
 
Re: 8/25 Leo AMPS 192, +9 88 +11 86 +12 75 Need shoot help n

Don't be too upset or hard on yourself, Lisa! You did GREAT!!

Hugs to you! Let me know if you have any questions relating to the PM or any follow-up thoughts on this condo, ok?

Jane
 
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