8/21 Shadow 288 +4 206

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Re: 8/21 Shadow +11 80

Hi Kim...so nice to see you. the link works perfectly!!!
I have a little male named Shadow and when I first saw your post I thought I had written a typo with that number!!! Gave me quite a start! LOL.
+11=80 eh?
Please come back right away and post the AMPS before you shoot? Do not feed ...just post, ok?

Then hopefully some experienced people will be here to talk to you about this. You are fortunate to have met Libby and Jill last night...great job!
You are in the BEST place...and if you post everyday, we will all get to know you...it's like a big family here!
Welcome to you and Shadow girl!!! :mrgreen:

It's great that you have your SS up and working and I found out in your Profile that Shadow was dx on 6/7/2010, right?
 
Re: 8/21 Shadow +11 80

Welcome Kim 'n Shadow. I just read your last night's condo. You must be sleep deprived, poor thing.
Depending on the +12 test number, you may be advised to give an even more reduced dose than was planned.
Please post that number before shooting.
This (FDMB) is a great place to be to get help and advise and support. Welcome :-D
 
Re: 8/21 Shadow +11 80, AMPS 53

Good morning Pat and Dyana. How do I edit my subject line?

No food or meds yet, although the monsters think they are dying :roll:

What is my next move? LC or HC?

Pat is Shadow the black kitty in your photo? My Shadow is black as well.
 
Re: 8/21 Shadow +11 80

Yes, that's my boy there...he just passed his first year on insulin...we are still working hard at this dance!
Are you giving Shadow UTI meds or what? What meds did you refer to....
 
Re: 8/21 Shadow +11 80, AMPS 53

I don't think you want to shoot a 53. Hopefully, someone will be along shortly to help you. I think you are going to have to stall. Test again in 15 minutes and post the number.
 
Re: 8/21 Shadow +11 80, AMPS 53

Oh, and don't feed, yet. If you feed, the next test will reflect the food intake in the number.
 
Re: 8/21 Shadow +11 80, AMPS 53, now 51

I don't know what advice to give you. I think you may be skipping this shot, and then feeding. I am not that experienced in giving advise.
I am bumping your condo to the top, hoping for more experienced eyes to see this and help you.
 
Re: 8/21 Shadow +11 80, AMPS 53, now 51

OK, I figured out the editing thing. at +15 minutes she is 51.

Dyana, one of my civvies is a tuxedo cat. Aren't they the craziest little things? I've had a lot of cats over the years, but nobody like Romeo.

So, at 51, she's not in any dire straights, she doesn't even act like she's hungry although the boys are making their opinions known and Pablo wants to get into the drooler's food.
 
Re: 8/21 Shadow +11 80, AMPS 53, now 51

I've been there before. Stalling, and all my cats (two) hungry and looking like they are going to eat me, if I don't hurry up and feed them.
I am going to try to find some help for you. Hold on.
 
Re: 8/21 Shadow +11 80, AMPS 53, now 51

Kim....does stalling the shot affect your schedule a lot? You will shoot again in 12 hours after this morning's shot...so we just need to know if changing the times will be okay for you. You can work back to the original time in daily increments of 15 minutes if necessary.
We have some choices here...you can keep stalling and testing every 15 minutes to see if she is going up without food.
You can choose to shoot a lower dose...and then feed.
You can also shoot the regular dose (but that is a high one for sure!!) but we don't really have a lot of data on what she does at the lower numbers, right?
You can also just skip the shot completely....feed her and start on a schedule tonight...

I am hoping that a more experie4nced person will come along...so just stall and retest if you can, okay?
 
Re: 8/21 Shadow +11 80, AMPS 53, now 51

Stalling is not a problem. The hubz has a dinner thing tonight and we will be out so if she gets on a little bit later schedule it will actually work to my advantage.
 
Re: 8/21 Shadow +11 80, AMPS 53, now 51

good morning, kim!
happy to see you posting. i don't usually recommend skipping a shot, but i think in this case it would be beneficial. skipping this morning's shot will give the shed a chance to drain after all the extra overlap caused by shots being given 5 hours apart yesterday. i would let shadow eat now and then grab some random spot checks today. you want to make sure kitty numbers continue to rise. the numbers may even rise higher than you like to see, but i wouldn't shoot until shadow's next scheduled shot time.

as far as dose for tonight goes... let's see how things go and re-evaluate based on what happens today.
just my thoughts...
 
Re: 8/21 Shadow +11 80, AMPS 53, now 51

Hi there I was asked to stop by, but I don't know how much help I will be :razz: I'm not familiar with this SHADOW but I take it she is a high dose kitty what are we dealing with acro or antibodies? It makes a difference! Looking at your SS you have been on higher doses and have shot some low numbers...but I wouldn't feel comfortable telling you to go ahead with 7U on a 53 that seems to be surfing (dropping). The best alternative is to keep waiting (no food) and once you see the number starting to rise (and often when it does it rises fast) then if you are able to monitor today go ahead and shoot. If you can't monitor or delaying to long will really F-up the schedule then you need to decide to either skip the shot (not the best) or give a reduced dose to try and keep the BG from going through the roof later but still keep her safe and keep a somewhat reasonable schedule.

Just saw what Jill wrote, yup if you really shot in 5 hour intervals then the shed is FULL and will carry her through a good part of the 12 hours (or less if you need to shoot earlier to get on a schedule) in that case I would skip this morning do some checks, and when you get towards evening you decide when and what to shoot.
 
Re: 8/21 Shadow +11 80, AMPS 53, now 51

Kim...keep checking her during the day and post her numbers. Everyone will look at the data you have from today and figure out what to do for tonight. That is the best...so glad Jill and Monique came by!! Good job Kim! :razz:
 
Re: 8/21 Shadow +11 80, AMPS 53, now 51, +30 min 48

Hey I have a black kitty too! Sometimes he is my little shadow, but I call him SPOOKY @-) I'm a fan of black cats (and broomsticks ;-) )
 
Re: 8/21 Shadow +11 80, AMPS 53, now 51, +30 min 48

the numbers are not rising. i strongly recommend skipping this morning's shot.
go ahead and feed and continue to test to make sure the numbers are rising.
we're dealing with extra overlap and a shed which is too full...
 
Re: 8/21 Shadow +11 80, AMPS 53, now 51, +30 min 48

OK, I fed before I saw Monique's post. She got a couple tsp. LC FF with her B12. I'll hold her dose and keep testing and see what y'all think as the day goes forward.

I really appreciate everyone's help. We are so new to this and it seems like her insulin is only now starting to really work on her.

She has not been tested for acromegaly/antibodies. In my acrokitty reading, it seems they could be writing about her except for the big head/jaw.
 
Re: 8/21 Shadow +11 80, AMPS 53, now 51, +30 min 48

Be sure to retest her and make sure she is going UP Kim, okay? If she is not going up with the LC, maybe a little MC or some HC gravy would be good....but see how she is rising, okay? Can you post the next reading you get.... :mrgreen:
 
Re: 8/21 Shadow +11 80, AMPS 53, now 51, +30 min 48

yes, let shadow eat normally now. keep testing. make sure her numbers are going up from here, k?
keep her ss updated as the day goes on. several of us will be watching and will check back with you later today. try to post at least an hour before shot time to give time to figure out a safe dose for tonight.
 
Re: 8/21 Shadow +11 80, AMPS 53, now 51, +30 min 48

thanks, Jill. I've just tested her +1 48. I'll be so interested to see what happens to her numbers today as she's not any consistent greens to date and I won't be mucking things up with my untrained attempts at managing her.

This board is a very comforting place.
 
Re: 8/21 Shadow +11 80, AMPS 53, now 51, +30 min 48

That's ok that she ate, you are skipping the shot so she is allowed to eat on her normal schedule. The reason we don't feed directly before we shoot (when we are waiting to make sure the number is high enough) is because the food will raise the number after a short time and will give the idea that the old insulin is wearing off (which is what we are looking for before we give more) however if there is old insulin left it will gather up the glucose from the food she ate and lower the BG again, if you were to give new insulin because you saw the rising number which was only rising because of the recently ingested food then you have the old insulin and the new insulin working and it could be too much.

Let's say I had a AMPS of 80 and I wasn't sure, so I waited 15 minutes and tested but got a 76 (surfing)
Now I feed and test in 30 minutes and get 125
I assume it's ok (rising) and shoot the full dose

...but after 1 hour I test again and it's 48!!! The insulin I just injected hasn't started working yet (Lantus takes a few hours before it begins to take effect) so the 125 was brought down to 48 by insulin that was remaining from my last shot, if I'm lucky that was the last of the old insulin and the numbers will rise some in the next hour or two before the new insulin starts to do it's work. If I'm not lucky then the numbers will stay low and at +3 I'm going to have possible low BG and will spend several hours stuffing in high carb to keep the numbers up.

Generally I would want to test AMPS 80-ok not sure
wait 15-30 min NO FOOD and test if I get a 95 then I go ahead and shoot (old insulin is gone and before +3 the BG will probably be close to 200+) so it's safe
If it doesn't rise then I repeat testing every 15-30 minutes until it does rise. If it doesn't rise and I don't have time to wait I choose to feed and skip the shot (especially if I give a high dose=big shed) I can then perhaps give my next shot a little earlier, or I can give the reduced dose which is like putting a little fuel in the reserve tank so I don't have to walk so far when I run out of gas on the way to the station.
 
Re: 8/21 Shadow +11 80, AMPS 53, now 51, +30 min 48

ok, here's how you would record the numbers:

+11 80
+12 53
+12.25 51
+12.5 48
+13 48
and so on...

the clock doesn't start over until the next shot.

today's results will not be indicative of much of anything because of the shots which were 5 hours apart yesterday. the effects of lantus are cumulative. all we're seeing today is too much overlap... in other words, a shed which is too full. skipping this morning's shot will empty the shed and give you a better starting place tonight. there are rare occasions when you'd want to shoot at +10 or +11, but for the most part shots should be given 12 hours apart.

i would get a +13.5 here...
 
Re: 8/21 Shadow +11 80, AMPS 53, now 51, +30 min 48

Kim...will she eat more now? That 48 was not much of a rise...please feed and retest ...you don't want her dipping any further....so you will need to keep an eye on her. If necessary, you might have to add HC but see if the LC will bring her up, okay?
 
Re: 8/21 Shadow AMPS 53, +1.5 50

take a deep breath. no reason to panic, k?

if you have some high carb WET food, squeeze the gravy out and let her lick the gravy. that should give the numbers a little bump.
retest in 30 minutes...

if you don't have any wet hc, let us know.
there's always a Plan B! :mrgreen:
 
Re: 8/21 Shadow AMPS 53, +13.5 50

we'll be watching for you.

remember, we're 13.5 hours out from the last shot. shadow is surfing. we'd just like to have her surf in a little higher range and not drop any lower. that's the only reason for the hc at this point. you're doing fine and so is she. there are lots of kitties who like to do this low surf...
 
Re: 8/21 Shadow AMPS 53, +13.5 50

You are doing a fine job Kim! :-D This is a pretty strange 24 hours for you, but I will venture a guess that things will get a little better once you are on consistent doses twice a day....fingers and paws crossed for you both. I hope that you will be able to test her during the day. (you had no plans at all, right? LOL )
So glad Jill is here and watching out for you and Shadow.
We will be around so please post your updates when you get them.....I am good for cheerleading at least....LOL.. :RAHCAT
 
Re: 8/21 Shadow AMPS 53, +13.5 50. +14.75 90

Shot time?

Monique, that is very helpful. I appreciate it.

Can you explain the difference in "overlap" and "storage shed"?

The part about "a little later" and "a little less insulin" has been my undoing recently - those might be in what sort of range?
not trying to pin you down, just speaking in general numbers?

Shadow has not been very perky today, but maybe I'm hovering...

Pat- thank you. We can use the cheerleading. confused_cat
 
Re: 8/21 Shadow AMPS 53, +13.5 50, +14.75 90. shot?

Since you didn't shoot this morning, you can choose a time that would suit you both for the AM/PM shots.
Any idea what time would be good for you?

Please keep updating and when it is about an hour before your shot time, post and ask about the dose...put a question in your header to read "Dose for tonight" and I am sure Jill will look over the numbers you have recorded for the day and give you some idea of a good dose for Shadow.

There are "stickies' at the top of the page that contain a lot of good information for you. Read over the starred ones and ask any questions you might have, okay?
 
Re: 8/21 Shadow AMPS 53, +13.5 50, +14.75 90. shot?

Your Shadow is doing great, Kim, and you are doing a good job. You are in excellent hands.
 
Re: 8/21 Shadow AMPS 53, +13.5 50, +14.75 90. shot?

Hi Kim, you are not going to give insulin during this cycle just wait until your evening dose time (it's ok if she goes high) once you get to +24 then someone will help you decide on the correct dose. The trick is to find a dose that you can give every 12 hours consistantly and that eventually keeps her BG in a good range most of that time.

The reduced dose (BCS=Big chicken sh**) is what we do only when we aren't sure we can give our regular dose and we can't wait around to keep testing or if after shooting you need to leave them alone. It's just a thing we have to do sometimes. It happens when you are just starting out (Newbie) once you have been doing it longer and have a regular schedule and dose then it will rarely be nessisary. Once you know how she reacts to the dose you can make better decisions.

The shed and overlap are basically the same thing. It's the amount of time beyond 12 hours that Lantus still has some effect on the BG. Lantus lasts between 12-18 hours in most cats 15 is average but most of it's effects are seen in the first 12 hours (where the nadir is) the remaining "overlap" bridges the time between when the most effect of the last shot is wearing off and the 2-3 hours it takes after injecting until the new shot begins fully working. In the stickys at the top of the forum is one which talks about "the shed".
 
Re: 8/21 Shadow AMPS 53, +13.5 50, +14.75 90. shot?

Hearfelt thanks for everyone's help.

OK. No dose.

This dinner starts at 6 pm. Can I arbitrarily opt for 5 PM for her dose? I suppose that depends on her numbers this afternoon?

I'll see you all at 4, with all my data. Have a good Saturday.

Hey, do y'all think Shadow is having some sort of breakthrough? What a happy, happy day that would be!
 
Re: 8/21 Shadow AMPS 53, +13.5 50, +14.75 90. shot?

One more thing ' how much food and when for this afternoon? HC or LC? if she gets over 100, I'm guessing we can go back to regular food/schedule. Correct?
 
Re: 8/21 Shadow AMPS 53, +13.5 50, +14.75 90. shot?

The concept of overlap and shed are somewhat related. The "shed", or depot, refers to the Lantus that is in storage in your cat's body. There are several different kinds of drugs that are called depot drugs. It allows the Lantus to function as a long acting type of insulin and not cause it to be harsh. In other words, it doesn't have an abrupt onset where numbers drop sharply or spike at the end of the cycle and not give coverage for the full cycle. See this sticky note on the shed.

Overlap is what happens between the end of one cycle and the beginning of the next. The cycle for Lantus runs about 12 hours or maybe a little more. The concern with shooting 5 hours into your cycle is that the cycle of the first shot is reaching it's peak of action at about the same time as the onset of the new shot. The two cycles have too much overlap so rather than allowing for a smooth transition between cycles, the action of the second dose is enhancing the action of the first dose and potentially driving numbers down too low. There are times when you can shoot early to take advantage of overlap but this is typically not more than one or two hours early and only when you are data ready.

Given that you haven't shot, you can reset your shot time today providing all is looking good. Please post at around 4:00 -- but let us know what time zone you're in. We're all over the map -- literally.

Since Shadow is surfing in the 90s, you can use low carb -- but get a test about 30 min. after you switch to make sure numbers are where you want them.
 
Re: 8/21 Shadow AMPS 53, +13.5 50, +14.75 90. shot?

that 90 you're seeing is simply a food spike induced by feeding lc and hc gravy.
you don't want to shoot now, because the food spike will wear off and the insulin could start working on a lower number. kwim?

Can I arbitrarily opt for 5 PM for her dose?
Click to expand...
yes, depending on her numbers. what time zone are you in?

One more thing ' how much food and when for this afternoon? HC or LC? if she gets over 100, I'm guessing we can go back to regular food/schedule. Correct?
Click to expand...
let her numbers be your guide. the purpose in feeding is to make sure her numbers don't drop. at the moment, it looks like you can return to lc...


EDITED TO ADD: if at any point you're unsure, post your questions/concerns. someone is always around...
 
Re: 8/21 Shadow AMPS 53, +13.5 50, +14.75 90. shot?

Do the LC now for her meals...what time do you usually give her food? I feed at +8 which gives them 4 hours between the last food and the preshot number. Some people do the +9 and leave 3 hours...at any rate, no food definitely from 2 hours before preshot....


And are you okay with shooting in the AM at 5 am?? :o 12 hours apart for the dosing....so, what do you think?
 
Re: 8/21 Shadow AMPS 53, +13.5 50, +14.75 90. shot?

I see Shadow is at it again! Wow, it will be interesting to see where he ends up tonight.

Pick a shot time that will be good for you most mornings and evenings. You want to shoot at the same time each day, as much as possible, so if 5:00 is a good time for you most days, then do it. What you don't want is to get stuck with a schedule that is hard to manage on work days. If you're leaving at 6 today, when will you be back?

Food today - low carb *should* be ok, but if he does drop low again later on, you can give a dab of HC. Usually it's not necessary to HC this late in the cycle. Otherwise just feed as you normally do.
 
Re: 8/21 Shadow AMPS 53, +13.5 50, +14.75 90. shot?

Kim 'n Shadow said:
Hearfelt thanks for everyone's help.

OK. No dose.

This dinner starts at 6 pm. Can I arbitrarily opt for 5 PM for her dose? I suppose that depends on her numbers this afternoon?
Click to expand...
If you choose 5:00pm, would you like to have your new schedule be 5:00am and 5:00pm everyday?
 
Re: 8/21 Shadow AMPS 53, +13.5 50, +14.75 90. shot?

Good luck tonite Kim! I won't be around then, I'm on the other side of the map :lol: It's already evening for me and I'll be in bed sleeping at your evening time.

A breakthrough would be nice, I think your seeing the working of a lot of insulin and a big overlap, but it's possible that once you get a regular schedule and the right dose you will be seeing much more of these surfing (blues and greens).
 
Re: 8/21 Shadow AMPS 53, +13.5 50, +14.75 90. shot?

Central TIme Zone.

The 10A - 10P was perfect timing for us and my work schedule. We should get home tonight between 10-11. Can I wait that late and get back on our regular time? That would be great!
 
Re: 8/21 Shadow AMPS 53, +13.5 50, +14.75 90. shot?

that sounds perfect, if you shoot when you get home then you can be on your ideal schedule. Do test a few more times today to be sure Shadow isn't dropping again. This is exciting!
 
Re: 8/21 Shadow AMPS 53, +13.5 50, +14.75 90. shot?

Jill, you're so cute.

just walked in the door - took enough time to get Shadow's BG - +24 288. where do we go from here? I was expecting her to go much higher.
 
Re: 8/21 Shadow AMPS 53, +13.5 50, +14.75 90. shot?

There you are!

you're about 2.5 hours later than the time you want to be your shot time, right?
 
Re: 8/21 Shadow AMPS 53, +13.5 50, +14.75 90. shot?

this is probably not what you want to hear, but after looking at shadow's ss very carefully and reading back about how the dose was increased... i'm not at all convinced shadow is a high dose kitty. she might be, but it's really hard to tell.
if i were in your shoes, i would drop the dose to 3u bid in order to establish a baseline. we can always fast track her up the dosing scale (according to protocol) if necessary. the catch is you'd need to post every day so we could stay on top of her numbers.
what do you think? willing to give it a try?

edited to add: don't shoot anything yet. we have to figure out your schedule first.
 
Re: 8/21 Shadow AMPS 53, +13.5 50, +14.75 90. shot?

I agree with Jill. I have a high dose kitty, and Shadow's spreadsheet doesn't look very much like Jazzy's at all. Of course each cat is different, and she could be high dose, but I would feel better starting a little lower and working up to the dose. It's up to you, we can work with this dose too, whatever you decide.

So, about your schedule, when would you have to be back to 10/10? Monday?
 
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