8/2 Taishi AMPS 341, +6 365, PMPS 429

[Taishi_Ci]

My previous thread (Saturday): https://www.felinediabetes.com/FDMB/threads/7-31-taishi-amps-404-5-5-264.250670/

We're back! I apologize for my absence yesterday. I've had a lot going on and needed a mental break from the internet yesterday.

We bumped Taishi up to 2U this morning (the dose originally prescribed by his vet), since we still haven't seen much change in his numbers. I understand the concept of "bouncing", but it seems that since upping the dose he's experiencing major swings (as much as 200 points) instead of his prior consistency. I'm wondering if maybe we should be holding the dose for longer so his body adjusts? What if we are increasing too quickly without giving his body the chance to adapt to the insulin? Wouldn't, ideally, he have somewhat stable numbers instead of dramatic swings before increasing? The 428 number yesterday was a shocker.

My husband seems to think that the kind of wet food we feed Taishi is having an impact. We've been mixing it up between Fancy Feast pates, Fancy Feast naturals, and Friskies (either Ocean Whitefish or Turkey & Giblets). In the beginning, I planned on feeding him exclusively FF naturals (which seemed to be one of the best options on the list... 0 or 1 carbs, 70%+ protein), but we started supplementing with regular FF and Friskies due to cost and ease of access. We are going to try feeding him mostly FF naturals and supplementing with the Friskies Ocean Whitefish (which looked like the best Friskies option, nutrition wise) and see what happens. I personally don't see it having a *huge* impact, but the FF naturals is probably the best for him, even if it doesn't impact his numbers.

Thanks to everyone for having so much patience with me here. I really *do* appreciate the advice and willingness to help/inform. I tend to get easily overwhelmed and will try to get better about that

 

[Marje and Gracie]

My previous thread (Saturday): https://www.felinediabetes.com/FDMB/threads/7-31-taishi-amps-404-5-5-264.250670/

We're back! I apologize for my absence yesterday. I've had a lot going on and needed a mental break from the internet yesterday.

We bumped Taishi up to 2U this morning (the dose originally prescribed by his vet), since we still haven't seen much change in his numbers. I understand the concept of "bouncing", but it seems that since upping the dose he's experiencing major swings (as much as 200 points) instead of his prior consistency. I'm wondering if maybe we should be holding the dose for longer so his body adjusts? What if we are increasing too quickly without giving his body the chance to adapt to the insulin? Wouldn't, ideally, he have somewhat stable numbers instead of dramatic swings before increasing? The 428 number yesterday was a shocker.

My husband seems to think that the kind of wet food we feed Taishi is having an impact. We've been mixing it up between Fancy Feast pates, Fancy Feast naturals, and Friskies (either Ocean Whitefish or Turkey & Giblets). In the beginning, I planned on feeding him exclusively FF naturals (which seemed to be one of the best options on the list... 0 or 1 carbs, 70%+ protein), but we started supplementing with regular FF and Friskies due to cost and ease of access. We are going to try feeding him mostly FF naturals and supplementing with the Friskies Ocean Whitefish (which looked like the best Friskies option, nutrition wise) and see what happens. I personally don't see it having a *huge* impact, but the FF naturals is probably the best for him, even if it doesn't impact his numbers.

Thanks to everyone for having so much patience with me here. I really *do* appreciate the advice and willingness to help/inform. I tend to get easily overwhelmed and will try to get better about that

It was potentially time to increase the dose and I say “potentially” because you aren’t really sure how low the previous dose was taking him and we always want to consider that information before raising the dose. The reason we don’t know how low the 1.75u dose is taking him is we don’t know if he dropped the last few nights. It’s always really smart to get a +2. If the +2 is similar to or lower than the PS, it’s extremely likely the BG is going to come down more. How much more? We don’t know without those tests. But, I’ve been looking at SSs for 11 years and I’d say because he’s not bouncing way back up the next day, he didn’t go that low so the increase was most likely very warranted.

I’m mentioning all that so you know how important the +2 is, that cats frequently drop at night, that he could have gone lower (but not dangerously so) after you quit testing.

Insofar as foods, most diabetic cats do better with a food that is in the range of 6-10% calories from carbs. All new members start out wanting to feed in the 0-3% range but that can help cause swings because it’s just not enough carbs to work appropriately with the insulin dose. Does that make sense? I am not familiar with any of the canned foods anymore as I feed balanced, homemade raw, and would have to look those up that you mentioned. But I’d shoot for something LC but more in the range of 5/6-8/10%.

Good luck with the dose increase.

 

[Our Dolly Girl (GA)]

Hi Jessie, so glad to see you back on the forum. I feed Dolly the Fancy Feast Chunky Chicken and Friskies Chicken and Liver pate and a few others that she doesn’t like as much. She is a fussy one so my goal is for her to eat and keep her pancreas doing it’s job.

It will take a day or two before Taishi’s increase will affect his numbers. Just want you to know we all understand the stress you are under and of constantly feeling overwhelmed. It does get better, I promise. Try to be kind to yourself. This journey, as I mentioned before, is not easy but so rewarding when you start to see the little changes in Taishi. I wish you all the very best and feel free to reach out any time. I am not qualified to give you any dosing advice but I am certainly qualified to talk about worry and stress . If you are in need of immediate help or have an emergency make sure you use the drop down menu on your condo title and click 991. Someone will get back to you as soon as possible. Use the question mark for all other non-emergency questions.

 

[Taishi_Ci]

It was potentially time to increase the dose and I say “potentially” because you aren’t really sure how low the previous dose was taking him and we always want to consider that information before raising the dose. The reason we don’t know how low the 1.75u dose is taking him is we don’t know if he dropped the last few nights. It’s always really smart to get a +2. If the +2 is similar to or lower than the PS, it’s extremely likely the BG is going to come down more. How much more? We don’t know without those tests. But, I’ve been looking at SSs for 11 years and I’d say because he’s not bouncing way back up the next day, he didn’t go that low so the increase was most likely very warranted.

I’m mentioning all that so you know how important the +2 is, that cats frequently drop at night, that he could have gone lower (but not dangerously so) after you quit testing.

Insofar as foods, most diabetic cats do better with a food that is in the range of 6-10% calories from carbs. All new members start out wanting to feed in the 0-3% range but that can help cause swings because it’s just not enough carbs to work appropriately with the insulin dose. Does that make sense? I am not familiar with any of the canned foods anymore as I feed balanced, homemade raw, and would have to look those up that you mentioned. But I’d shoot for something LC but more in the range of 5/6-8/10%.

Good luck with the dose increase.

Lots of good info in your reply! I think I've been disregarding the importance of the +2 at night because his numbers have been consistently so high. My husband and I get discouraged seeing that high number after receiving insulin and we didn't see the big picture. We'll be extremely diligent about this moving forward.

Your comment on food is extremely interesting and not something I've heard yet. I automatically assumed no carbs, high protein = the best. Right now we are doing a mix of Fancy Feast Naturals and the Ocean Whitefish Friskies. Sounds like we may need to start documenting the carb percentage of the individual foods he's eating to see if there is any correlation between that and his numbers.

Thank you so much for you help. These points were both eye openers!

 

[Marje and Gracie]

Lots of good info in your reply! I think I've been disregarding the importance of the +2 at night because his numbers have been consistently so high. My husband and I get discouraged seeing that high number after receiving insulin and we didn't see the big picture. We'll be extremely diligent about this moving forward.

I completely understand and everyone needs to get as much sleep as they can when the BG is high. But good data is good data and even if one of you are up at +3, another test after the+2 before you go to bed is helpful in putting the puzzle together. If there isn’t much change at that point, it’s likely he will just come down slowly unless he’s clearing a bounce.

Your comment on food is extremely interesting and not something I've heard yet. I automatically assumed no carbs, high protein = the best.

Like anyplace, there is a great advantage to institutional knowledge from people who have been around a very, very long time and likely read every Info and Sticky post multiple times over the years as well as many condos. We try to keep these posts resurrected from time to time. Here’s one on the same subject.

One very underutilized source is the Health Index and FD FAQs. It’s extremely comprehensive.

You’re very welcome and I’m glad I could help.