8/2 Henry WC. AMPS 255 +1 279 +2 274 +3 326

John & Henry

Member Since 2022
previous: https://felinediabetes.com/FDMB/threads/8-1-henry-wc-amps-400-4-400-9-436-ket-0-5.266594/

Here's Henry with his prized mouse:

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Well, it seems the R eventually did do it's work. His PMPS R dose brought us down to about 137 eventually and kept us out of the red for several hours overnight. He started eating again once his BG wasn't out of control. I waited on the fluids last night, just because I only have a limited amount and would hate to run out when he really needs them. I guess it was a good decision, because I just checked his ketones and they're holding steady at 0.4. Appetite is strong and BG isn't in the red/pink right now, so I'm pretty happy we were able to avoid ketones.

I hope he starts eating again for you soon so you won't have to syringe feed him, I'm sure the more experienced members will be on soon to give you some advice .That's too funny about the mouse and Henry proudly carrying it around.
I just hope you can get out of those red numbers soon
Thanks Diane. I think the R finally got his BG to come down for awhile. He started eating again once the BG came down, so he's looking much better today. His meow is back to full cadence. He wouldn't let me have the mouse. He hid under the porch with it for awhile so I couldn't get it. Opening a can of cat food was the only thing that got him to come out.

Sometimes the job of R is to stop things from getting worse.
Is mouse a novel protein
I would say so, I don't think he's eaten many in his life, but he was definitely going to eat this one. While I was preparing his rabbit pate he was trying really hard to munch it. Well, luckily the R eventually seemed to show some results at PMPS and again this morning.


That's very frustrating. Wendy makes a very good point about the R sometimes keeping things from getting worse. Problem is we don't know what would have happened without the R so we have nothing to compare that to. I know. Sometimes I got a great R response, and sometimes little to none that I could quantify (but again, maybe it was holding things in check). Anyway, I sympathize with your frustrations.

Likewise with fluids. I did not always see a direct correlation with giving fluids and ketones coming down (I hate to even tell people that) -- sometimes I did. So many factors at play here. But I kept giving fluids anyway (most of the time) when his ketones were high. I hoped they were doing other good things (and I know they were, but I like to SEE results that I can measure.)

As for today, I like seeing the ketones at .5 that's good. Unless I had another compelling reason to not give the fluids, my thoughts would be to give them to "keep a good thing going" (hopefully.)

Hopefully this RED streak is going to change color soon.
Yes, it is frustrating. Luckily the second dose of R at PMPS seemed to do the trick. Was able to get his BG down for the majority of the night/early morning and gave some more R at PMPS +10 which brought him down a good amount. I've only had that one experience where the fluids didn't seem to work. most of the time they work very well. I definitely understand wanting to be able to quantify and see results tho.
 

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It’s nice to see him so engaged (even if it is with a dead mouse, lol). His attitude and facial expression looks so much better than in some of the other photos.

How is he doing with with the enzymed food? How is his weight?
 
Give Henry lots of kisses for me, he holds a special place in my heart
Awww. Thank you Diane!:bighug:

It’s nice to see him so engaged (even if it is with a dead mouse, lol). His attitude and facial expression looks so much better than in some of the other photos.

How is he doing with with the enzymed food? How is his weight?
It's hard to say because she's so hungry all the time he'd eat just about anything. Sometimes he doesn't finish it. Sometimes he wants a different flavor. Sometimes he's sick and he just won't eat no matter what I give him.

Ugh, so I just weighed him and he's only 5lbs 3oz! Even with feeding him constantly!:banghead: The Budesonide is 1mg is that a standard dose? Maybe he requires prednisone?
 
Hi John! IBDkitties.net says:

Dosage recommendations for budesonide vary, but the standard is generally 1 mg. per day for cats, regardless of their weight. However, doses may range from .5 mg to 3 mg. per day depending upon the prescribing veterinarian and the cat.

there’s tons of good info on that site. There’s a whose section on steroids that’s very informative.

What is Henry’s dose currently?
 
How is his poop? You said it seemed to vary based on the enzymes and how they’re administered, so just wondering how he’s doing digesting his food.

Weight can vary a bit based on recent meal or urination/defecation, fluid intake, and so forth. But he was around this weight not too long ago, wasn’t he? It might be a win to just to “stem the tide” (stop or slow the rapid weight loss) and then hope for a bit of weight gain as all the variables (EPI, BG, IBD, etc) start to respond to treatment.

Importantly: what is the “whole cat report? How are the 5 P’s — purring, pooping, peeing, playing, preening?
 
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1 mg is a good starting dose, that's what Neko was on. Then we reduced down to 0.75 units. I had it compounded into a liquid, so easy enough to change the dose. But she had presumed SCL, not IBD.

It can be helpful to put the dose in the Remarks section when you first start it. And then later if you change it. Remarks is a good section to document anything that might have an influence on the BG's. He's only on day 3 of budesonide, have patience.
 
previous: https://felinediabetes.com/FDMB/threads/8-1-henry-wc-amps-400-4-400-9-436-ket-0-5.266594/

Here's Henry with his prized mouse:


Well, it seems the R eventually did do it's work. His PMPS R dose brought us down to about 137 eventually and kept us out of the red for several hours overnight. He started eating again once his BG wasn't out of control. I waited on the fluids last night, just because I only have a limited amount and would hate to run out when he really needs them. I guess it was a good decision, because I just checked his ketones and they're holding steady at 0.4. Appetite is strong and BG isn't in the red/pink right now, so I'm pretty happy we were able to avoid ketones.


Thanks Diane. I think the R finally got his BG to come down for awhile. He started eating again once the BG came down, so he's looking much better today. His meow is back to full cadence. He wouldn't let me have the mouse. He hid under the porch with it for awhile so I couldn't get it. Opening a can of cat food was the only thing that got him to come out.


I would say so, I don't think he's eaten many in his life, but he was definitely going to eat this one. While I was preparing his rabbit pate he was trying really hard to munch it. Well, luckily the R eventually seemed to show some results at PMPS and again this morning.



Yes, it is frustrating. Luckily the second dose of R at PMPS seemed to do the trick. Was able to get his BG down for the majority of the night/early morning and gave some more R at PMPS +10 which brought him down a good amount. I've only had that one experience where the fluids didn't seem to work. most of the time they work very well. I definitely understand wanting to be able to quantify and see results tho.
He’s adorable with the mouse, even though it’s sad for the mouse (although you said the mouse must have been dying). He does look better in his face. Such a sweet boy!
 
This really is a marathon with Henry. Everything is in a state of flux: appetite good/ appetite bad; ketones up/ketones down; enzymes being eaten/enzymes not being eaten…. And more. You are a wonderful, persevering dad to Henry.
 
Thank you everyone for your replies. It's 4am on Thursday here and I'm exhausted, so I'm just going to post this reply and make a new thread tomorrow. The SS is up to date.

Dosage recommendations for budesonide vary, but the standard is generally 1 mg. per day for cats, regardless of their weight. However, doses may range from .5 mg to 3 mg. per day depending upon the prescribing veterinarian and the cat.

there’s tons of good info on that site. There’s a whose section on steroids that’s very informative.

What is Henry’s dose currently?
I've read quite a bit of that site, but I need to go more in depth and make sure I hit up all the pages and make sure I haven't missed anything. Thanks for that dosage info. I'll be talking with the vet tomorrow so I'm interested to see what she'll have to say. Henry's currently on 1mg.

How is his poop? You said it seemed to vary based on the enzymes and how they’re administered, so just wondering how he’s doing digesting his food.

Weight can vary a bit based on recent meal or urination/defecation, fluid intake, and so forth. But he was around this weight not too long ago, wasn’t he? It might be a win to just to “stem the tide” (stop or slow the rapid weight loss) and then hope for a bit of weight gain as all the variables (EPI, BG, IBD, etc) start to respond to treatment.

Importantly: what is the “whole cat report? How are the 5 P’s — purring, pooping, peeing, playing, preening?
Poop is looking good. It's gotten a bit softer than usual, but the color is pretty good. No more light/clay color, so I do think the enzymes are working. He's been getting 95%+ of the enzymes mixed with the food and only pills very rarely. Yes, he actually pooped a TON yesterday and the day before. He's insides don't feel nearly as bloated as they have in the past. I'm wondering with the soft stool if maybe a "log jam" finally broke and that is responsible for the sudden weight loss. I'll hope anyway. I thought I could feel that he seemed like a little bit of meat had been growing between his ribs, but I'm not really feeling that anymore unfortunately. He eats less when he's not getting the FF, but he still eats at least 3 times what a normal cat would. Yes, I'm really hoping he isn't actually loosing and it's just all the different variables that make it seem that he's losing weight.

About the WCR: He's doing fine in the pooping and peeing department. He hasn't preened in a long time unfortunately. I take a wet paper towel to him everyday and wipe him down, making sure to clean really well around his nose and mouth since they get a lot of food stuck on them. He wasn't too happy about me doing this at first, but he's came around to the idea. I always start by doing his coat first and I think that kind of relaxes him, so that he'll like me do his mouth and nose. Haven't seen much for playing since that wrapper about 2 weeks ago, and the mouse a couple days ago. Purring has been sporadic, but infrequent. He used to be a purr machine and I couldn't pick him up or get close to him without his motor running non-stop, now I'm lucky to get a couple purrs maybe 1 every day or two usually when he's begging for food, and it just doesn't sound the same unfortunately. It's like he's trying really hard, but having a difficult time getting it out, but he does make little coos and other noises that are hard to explain unless you've ever had a Siamese.

1 mg is a good starting dose, that's what Neko was on. Then we reduced down to 0.75 units. I had it compounded into a liquid, so easy enough to change the dose. But she had presumed SCL, not IBD.

It can be helpful to put the dose in the Remarks section when you first start it. And then later if you change it. Remarks is a good section to document anything that might have an influence on the BG's. He's only on day 3 of budesonide, have patience.
Well, we're not sure if it's IBD or SCL either, but since the treatment is essentially the same, I guess it probably doesn't matter much. I added the Budesonide info to the remarks section, I'll try to be more consistent with adding any additional info I have too. He had his first Budesonide dose on Saturday and today (well, yesterday now) was Wednesday so he's had 5 doses. Come to think of it, I'm now really wondering if the Budesonide may be responsible for the large amount of stools and his bloating going down significantly hence the weight loss. Paws crossed it's doing its work.

He’s adorable with the mouse, even though it’s sad for the mouse (although you said the mouse must have been dying). He does look better in his face. Such a sweet boy!
Yeah, the mouse was probably dead before he even got to it, but it's hard to know for sure since he headed directly under the porch so I couldn't take it from him. It didn't move as far as I could see, but it also didn't look like it had been dead long either, so I'm really not sure. He was super proud of that thing and sprung right to life when he spotted it.

This really is a marathon with Henry. Everything is in a state of flux: appetite good/ appetite bad; ketones up/ketones down; enzymes being eaten/enzymes not being eaten…. And more. You are a wonderful, persevering dad to Henry.
Aww, thank you. It certainly feels like a constant battle. Some days you feel like you're winning and other days not so much. I'm glad the ketones seem to be staying low despite some high BG numbers lately. I think fighting them with the R has helped keep the ketones down, along with the frequent feeding.
 
Well, we're not sure if it's IBD or SCL either, but since the treatment is essentially the same, I guess it probably doesn't matter much.
The treatment is NOT the same, hence the need to know what you are dealing with. One part of the treatment can be a steroid for both, but whether it's used at all or for how long can vary between the two. Also, there are additional parts to the treatment which vary between the two conditions.

Budesonide isn't going to reduce the inflammation all at once, it's a gradual process. But you should see gradual improvements.
 
The treatment is NOT the same, hence the need to know what you are dealing with. One part of the treatment can be a steroid for both, but whether it's used at all or for how long can vary between the two. Also, there are additional parts to the treatment which vary between the two conditions.

Budesonide isn't going to reduce the inflammation all at once, it's a gradual process. But you should see gradual improvements.
Budesonide can take a few weeks to start to work.
 
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