8/2 Gobnait +1 46+5 82+8 130 +14 64

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MJ and Gobnait

Member Since 2011
Hi all. In a flurry of drama last night on the board I suddenly learned that my alphtrak records much higher than what everyone else here is used to seeing. It was suggested I cut by .25. she's now getting 2.25 (this morning frankly even a sliver less)

this cat is green green green

i have to go into the office today but took a number before shooting and fed her then. then shot and read and will do a +1. i think i can get back home 5PST ish but that's the best I can do.

I may just leave her favorite dry food out to snack on today. these numbers now are lower than they have been even taking into consideration the difference between freestyle and alphatrak.

i have to continue on this dosage for three days? i'm now concerned that she's been overdosed for a long time!
 
Re: 8/2 Gobnait -1 79 AMPS 62 now testing w freestyle

all you can do is what you can, mj. probably this would've been a morning to just skip her shot entirely - not sure what +1 will tell you because it will be a food spike. the dry kibbles will raise her and she'll stay up for a while, which in this case is probably good. before you shoot her tonight, why don't you post her pmps number and let us take a look at it.
 
Re: 8/2 Gobnait -1 79 AMPS 62 now testing w freestyle

argh! okay so not shooting is an option. i was following the protocol. am just trying to do what everyone is telling me. i wish it had occurred to me earlier to tell people what meter i was using it never occurred to me that it could matter.


re food spike, i got up and fed her at 6:30 and tested her then. i didn't shoot her till 7:30 and she actually dropped in that hour. i'l take the 8:30 and if it's dropping then i'll freak out. i will def leave food out.
 
Re: 8/2 Gobnait -1 79 AMPS 62 now testing w freestyle

It is recommended that people who are new should not shoot numbers lower than 150, ESPECIALLY if you're not home to monitor. You really need to re-read the stickies at the top of the Lantus forum because you're missing important information.

Below 150 mg/dl (8.3 mmol/L), don't give insulin. Between 150 and 200 (8.3-11.1 mmol/L), you have three options: a.) give nothing; b.) give a token dose (10-25% of the usual dose); c.) feed as usual, test in a couple of hours, and make a decision based on that value. Above 200 (11.1 mmol/L) but below the cat's normal pre-shot value, a reduced dose might be wise.

I hope everything turns out okay.
 
Re: 8/2 Gobnait -1 79 AMPS 62 now testing w freestyle

mj, don't feel bad. i'm sure not trying to criticise you - i know that you don't know til someone tells you. believe me, i've made plenty of mistakes in the whole sugar dance!

here's the sticky on what to do if you have a low pre-shot number.

http://www.felinediabetes.com/FDMB/viewtopic.php?f=9&t=46005

i'm glad you're still on - i thought you might have already gone to work. if i were you, i'd open a can of high carb and give gobnait a nice big ole chunk - like 1/2 can or so - so you don't have to have anxiety about her today. she'll be through the roof but that's safer than too low. then let's regroup tonight.

i'm not an expert but i don't see anyone online who is - so that's what i'd do. if libby or jill or sienne tell you something different, follow them.
 
Re: 8/2 Gobnait -1 79 AMPS 62 now testing w freestyle

what? below 150 now? she's always been below 150 even on the meter that tracked higher.

now she's 46 and i've just given her some dry food.

i'm going to see a vet. i am getting a ton of conflicting info here. if i cant shoot my cat below 150 what can i do? let her die? seriously.

if this cat is just NOT diabetic then that's great.

and I'm naturally a bit stressed now since everyone is telling me my cat is dying and that its my fault but people PLEASE do NOT berate the people who join here and are trying to do the right thing for not doing it perfectly.
 
Re: 8/2 Gobnait -1 79 AMPS 62 now testing w freestyle

MJ:

I'm sorry but you should not have shot this number and it's very clearly in the stickys. Please do not leave your kitty....please stay and monitor her and make sure she eats.

Since you don't have much data from last night, you could have shot a dropping number and if she keeps dropping, you could have a serious hypo situation on your hands. Don't be lulled into the +1 and think she is safe...that is probably just a food spike and she might very well turn around and come back down.

You just don't have the data to be shooting that kind of number. You are also shooting a healthy amount of insulin and IF you think your cat is getting too much insulin, you definitely need to stay home and monitor her. Please...for the safety of your cat.

eta: leaving dry food out IS an option but it takes a lot longer for dry food to kick in and then its effects last a very long time. If she's at 46...please give her karo now!
 
Re: 8/2 Gobnait -1 79 AMPS 62 now testing w freestyle

First...we need to address the 46. Please give her HC food and some karo now and retest in 15 mins. If she's not up, do it again...wash, rinse, repeat.
 
Re: 8/2 Gobnait -1 79 AMPS 62 now testing w freestyle

nobody is trying to berate you - really! we see a situation where you need a quick education to protect your cat and we're trying to give that education to you very fast. we've all been there not knowing and trying to figure out the best thing - and we're just trying to help you.

all the new info has just come in since yesterday and we're just trying to help. don't feel badly.
 
Re: 8/2 Gobnait -1 79 AMPS 62 now testing w freestyle

It's only that we're concerned about your kitty!! The fact is, Gobnait could be one of those lucky cats who don't need insulin after being taken off dry food. The protocol is very specific and you can follow it to the letter and no harm will come to your cat. If people give you different information than what is in the protocol, I would ask Sienne, Libby, Jill, or one of the very experienced people we have here on the board for advice and they will steer you in the right direction. Your cat isn't going to die!!! If you end up having to leave for work, just leave out plenty of high carb food and dry food for her to nibble on. Her numbers will probably be high tonight, but that's better than the alternative which is a hypo event when you're not home!
 
Re: 8/2 Gobnait -1 79 AMPS 62 now testing w freestyle

you're hearing different voices, but really, we're all telling you the same thing. marjorie is right, address the 46 now - marjorie do you have time to help her or do you want me to?
 
Re: 8/2 Gobnait -1 79 AMPS 62 now testing w freestyle

Julie....just sent you a PM...I've got to get to work....are you available? We need to help MJ get Gobnait up....

MJ....can you please give us a status for her? Thank you.
 
Re: 8/2 Gobnait -1 79 AMPS 62 now testing w freestyle

i'm here and will stay with you, mj. no other commitments this morning. what's her latest number, mj? you don't need to panic, don't need to be upset, i'll help you pull her up and she'll be fine.
 
Re: 8/2 Gobnait -1 79 AMPS 62 now testing w freestyle

MJ..please respond; we're worried about you and Gobnait. We are not trying to make this difficult....we want to help you bring her up and then help you with a plan to bring her dose down.
 
Re: 8/2 Gobnait -1 79 AMPS 62 now testing w freestyle

Marjorie is right, MJ. Please continue to monitor Gobnait as he could potentially dip into unsafe numbers. Folks here are genuinely just concerned for his safety and the potential danger of the present situation.

The recommendation to not shoot under 150 is not a permanent recommendation, and as others have pointed out, you will see several folks on here that shoot much lower numbers regularly. But, we only did so once we had data to support that action. For Willie, 60 is our lowest shoot number, but that is because I know he almost invariably spikes at +1 and even a little at +2, and because he is on a low dose of insulin (these days varying between 0.1u and 0.5u), so the risk of hypo is reduced.

I would strongly suggest that you print out all of the stickies and put them into a binder or other notebook so that you can refer to them when needed. They contain valuable information regarding the protocol, and I know it can be hard at times to keep track of where everything is. My copy has been highlighted and has tons of notes, underlines, etc. When I first started, I even had the thing tabbed! The information there is important for keeping your cat safe.

I hope all goes well with your vet consult.
 
Re: 8/2 Gobnait -1 79 AMPS 62 now testing w freestyle

Hi MJ,

I know there's a lot of info going on here and your starting to feel a little stressed out, but just take a deep breath and let us know how gobnait is doing, ok? We really do want to help and no one here wants any harm to come to your kitty ..
 
Re: 8/2 Gobnait -1 79 AMPS 62 now testing w freestyle

oh god. am in the office and now super upset. i'm going home now. i am seriously going to get fired.
 
Re: 8/2 Gobnait -1 79 AMPS 62 now testing w freestyle

Before jumping up and down about MJ having shot a low number, please remember to look at Gobnait's SS. MJ has a point -- her kitty has rarely seen a yellow and has been in the lower range of blues. She has been shooting low all along. (MJ - at the beginning of this sugar dance, most people have panic attacks when they see green numbers, hence people being cautious.)

That said, let's consider a strategy that's workable based on the data from today.

MJ - what I would suggest is that if you are getting a pre-shot number that's under 100, you stall, don't feed, and re-test in 15 - 20 min. This will not put you off schedule and it will tell you if the numbers are dropping. If the re-test is lower than your initial test by more than 10%, please post so we can collectively think through what the best strategy will be for that shot. (Keep in mind, the strategy may be different on a shot-by-shot basis given the numbers, if you're home to test, etc.) Even better is if you are able to get a +11 and then your pre-shot test. I realize this may not be feasible all the time but it's something to keep in mind.

I want to ask you to read and bookmark or print out these two posts:
Dealing with low pre-shots
Handling low numbers

If there's no one available to lend a hand, these posts will offer you some guidance.

There is a huge volume of information that is very important for you to absorb in order to manage Gobnait's diabetes and to keep him safe. It's an overwhelming amount of information overload. We've all been there and we're all very willing to lend you a hand. Granted, there are any number of times when you just don't know what it is that you don't know -- like with the AlphaTrack vs. human meter. It might help for you to get a better feel of how to work with Gobnait's numbers if you visited a few of our condos and looked at our spreadsheets. For example, you would see that I was testing more frequently this morning when Gabby was giving me green numbers early in the cycle. I would have recommended that you do the same last night.

Take a deep breath -- people are just trying to help. I can't stick around very long. I'm at work. Let us know if you are able to update.
 
Re: 8/2 Gobnait -1 79 AMPS 62 now testing w freestyle

hugs, mj. this will pass. don't overstress about it - good thing you gave her some dry food today - it will keep her numbers up there.

there is so much to learn on here - we've all been there. the great thing is that people here will help you learn it.

seems like gobnait might be ready for a change in dosage with the change to canned food. maybe posting her pmps in the subject line and sienne or one of the other folks who give dose advice could help you find a good dose to shoot tonight.
 
Re: 8/2 Gobnait -1 79 AMPS 62 +1 46 +3 83

thanks. I just came home and test and am at 83. my neighbor was here while I was gone, said she was happy. she was actually outside in the sun when I got home.
so. no more dry food today unless she drops and maybe no dosage tonight? I'll keep testing her. her ears are pretty rough though now. she has tiny thin veins compared to my other cat (who doesn't need them poked) and they're black which makes them hard to see AND she's ornery and has pulled back a few times.
 
Re: 8/2 Gobnait -1 79 AMPS 62 +1 46 +3 83

can't remember if anyone has suggested the neosporin ointment with pain relief to you? that stuff is actually pretty miraculous about how it takes away the pain. you can slather it on at the end of the day, or anytime, really, but you want to wipe off most of it before you test. the ointment is greasy enough that it acts kinda like the vaseline to make the blood bead up.

punkin & anya scratched my foot while they were playing and i couldn't believe how effective it was at making the pain disappear. it really does work.

i think you'll want to shoot something tonight, just to keep her on track. but for now, test every 2 hours unless she drops below 50 and we'll see how she does today.

if she goes below 50, then you'll want to give her a bit of high carb canned gravy, wait 20 minutes and retest until you've pulled her up over 50 and she stays there.

hope you can at least enjoy being home for a bit!
 
Re: 8/2 Gobnait -1 79 AMPS 62 +1 46 +3 83

and sorry for venting at everyone. I've found everyone here very helpful. it's just not helpful to hear that things are somehow "clearly outlined" or that there is some obvious protocol when there are some in direct conflict with each other (no shooting at all under 150 vs lowering dosage bu .25 if under 50?).

there is a similar forum for equestrians. the breeding forum told me to ignore my vet and get my horse driven to a clinic STAT when he was 8 months old on new year's eve from South of San Francisco to UC Davis. It saved his life.

I know expertise sometimes trumps a degree and that's why I'm here.

I still want to double test with my alphatrak when those strips arrive. I'm just curious now if she has ALWAYS been this low or if this is just happening now, simultaneous to a change in measurement tools. bad timing. or maybe she dropped over the weekend and my cat sitter's "negligently" leaving out dry food was in fact a life saver.

maybe this cat can come off insulin altogether. that would be excellent. i really would like this neuropathy to reverse though.

can LOW blood sugar also exacerbate neuropathy? I understood it was only high.

because Gobanit is an in and out kitty, I never even notice frequent urination UNTIL she had the neuropathic symptoms and by then I knew she had diabetes and she was forced to use the liter box because she felt uneasy going down the back stairs.
 
Re: 8/2 Gobnait -1 79 AMPS 62 +1 46 +3 83 +4 76

Thanks Sienna and Gabby! am just seeing your post now. I don't think she's going to get over 100 now that I've stopped using the alpha trak.

juile yes! i picked up the neosporin yesterday went i went to buy the new meter. in fact that might have messed up one reading a bit, that was when i tested both ears because the blood shmeared all over the neosporin and it was a bit of a messy test but yes, i've been using the neo pain relief.

i wish she had just_one_more_ear....

I also just got confirmation from my neighbor that he gave her some honey when he came up. that's what got her back up to 83. especially now that I know that i'll keep an eye on her.

i gave her carbs today too. i think this cat is just really responding to the catkins. i have her on the newman's own which she seems t like but not as much as the fancy feast which, frankly, she and Desmond both like a little too much.

again, thanks to everyone for their help even if it made me panic.

Sienna and Gabby, you may recall that just two or three weeks ago (Gobnait has only been on insulin for 4 weeks and in the forum for 3) that I was VERY afraid of the green numbers!

now we know that she was MUCH more green than that because of the alphatrak misunderstanding... yowsa.
 
Re: 8/2 Gobnait -1 79 AMPS 62 +1 46 +3 83 +4 76

i'd call it baptism by fire - that's how i've picked up info. i would read it on the sticky, but it never really got clear to me til i needed a particular bit of info for that particular moment's situation and someone would post the quote of the essential part for me.

just think what an expert you'll be in another 4 weeks! :lol: :lol:

we're just gonna assume that gobnait hasn't hit the nadir yet - +4 is probably a little early, so slather on the neosporin, wipe it off when you're ready to test, and as long as you're home check her in another hour and repost. easy enough with these kitties to get back on track, isn't it!?
 
Re: 8/2 Gobnait -1 79 AMPS 62 +1 46 +3 83 +4 76

MJ,
I am glad you are home with your kitty and I am sorry if I scared you. I was sharing what my own endocrinologist has shared with me about diabetes and the dangers of too much insulin. Cats are no exception to the dangers and it is important for you to know. Please know that everyone here is just trying to help you and support you, making sure your beloved kitty stays safe. I think you have now been given a crash education on insulin, a potent hormone that was once used to shock the brains of the mentally ill. TMI I am sure.

When Morgaine was first diagnosed, I immediately put her on FF classics and she didn't get any insulin because her numbers were always under 150 after a week of the new diet. She started creeping up to 200 this past spring but there are many kitties who are diet controlled. It would be wonderful if your cat is one of them so maybe this is all going to work in your favor.

Meanwhile, I think you have the info you need now and the help is here. This is a wonderful place and I hope you know that it is concern for you and your kitty that brings out the advice, even if it seems a little hard to take at times. I am relatively new to this too when it comes to cats so reading your condo has helped me too. That is one reason we all post and read.
 
Re: 8/2 Gobnait -1 79 AMPS 62 +1 46 +3 83 +4 76

thanks Morgaine.

If you look at her SS and consider that those numbers are all taken with a glucometerr that registers up to 30 higher... maybe I should have stopped shooting her WEEKS ago?!
 
Re: 8/2 Gobnait +11 79 AMPS 62 +1 46 +3 83 +4 76 +6 83

We don't know whether you should have stopped shooting. While Gobnait's numbers are very, very good, they are not all within a normal range -- although they are pretty darn close. I do suspect the diet change has made a huge difference. We've seen some kitties' numbers drop very low and quickly go into remission once on a low carb, canned food diet.

I want to get a few more experienced sets of eyes to look at your SS. Usually, we don't encourage back-to-back reductions but this may be an exception.
 
Re: 8/2 Gobnait -1 79 AMPS 62 +1 46 +3 83 +4 76

sienne/gabby did an awesome job of putting things in perspective. thank you, sienne!

mj, let's talk a little bit about what's going on...

remember yesterday i mentioned a reduction of 0.25u may not be enough of a reduction, but the only way to know was to test, test, test.

most of us start at a lower dose and systematically work our kitty up the dosing scale in increments of 0.25u or 0.5 unit. your vet started gobnait at a higher dose which brought gobnait's numbers down quickly... which is one way to approach controlling a diabetic cat. initially, slightly over dosing a cat will often push them into remission quickly. however, this method does carry an increased risk of hypoglycemia and more often than not will result in kitty racing down the dosing scale rapidly.

a given --- lantus is a depot insulin, meaning one dose builds upon the next... the action is cumulative. the effects of a single dose can affect what happens over the next 3 days.

another given --- a change in diet from high carb dry food to a high protein - low carb diet *can* result in a decreased need for insulin. i say *can* because a diet change may or may not a kitty's numbers. every cat is different (ECID).

and yet another given --- the difference between using a human meter versus a meter calibrated for feline use may be approximately 30 points in the lower range. a personal note: i've been using freestyle meters for the last 5 years. i've found the difference between freestyle meters and the alphatrak meter to be less than the 30 points in the low range that Dr. Rand has suggested in her tight regulation protocol.


because the effects of lantus are cumulative, the drop to 46 @ +1 *could be* the result of the residual effects of the insulin depot/shed (leftover action of the insulin) OR it could be an indication the dose remains too high. we don't know which it is.

there's also the *possibility* the higher doses of insulin you've been giving gobnait combined with the recent diet change has greatly diminished his need for insulin.

so, what to do?

you have a few options and your decision may be based on your availability to monitor.

  • you can drop the dose to 1u bid to essentially "start over". pros: starting over could give you some peace of mind when you're not available to monitor. working up the dosing scale is easier and less scary than racing down the dosing scale. cons: you *may* lose some of the progress you've made.
  • you could continue with 2.25u bid and monitor like crazy. pros: you won't lose any progress made to date. cons: close monitoring will be required to keep gobnait safe.
  • you could take another reduction by dropping the dose to 2u bid. pros: offering a lesser dose could help to keep gobnait from diving again. cons: you *could* have to take the dose up again.


as far as what dose to shoot tonight...
if i were in your shoes, i'd see how the rest of the cycle goes before making any decisions. with the exception of that dive at +1 requiring the need for a higher carb food to bump the numbers up, so far the cycle is looking good (that may change as the cycle goes on). remember, the effects of the higher dose (2.5u) are still in play today. as the insulin depot/shed empties, it's possible the 2.25u dose will be fine. again, frequent testing is the only way to know for sure.

another option is to skip the shot tonight in order to drain the insulin depot/shed even faster. skipping the shot tonight and getting some spot checks would allow you (and us) to reassess gobnait's dose.

frequent monitoring is the key in keeping gobnait safe. since you're working outside the home you may be a whole lot better off dropping the dose, but it's your decision to make. safety is always the number one priority.

hope this helps...
 
Re: 8/2 Gobnait +11 79 AMPS 62 +1 46 +3 83 +4 76 +6 83 +7 11

wow. great explanation thanks!

so she was just up to 115 at +7. still "normal" I believe and certainly less scary than that low number this morning. I am supposed to be at a function tonight and would be gone from about 6:30 - 10:30. if her levels stay in this normal range until then is it best for me to skip what would be an early shot and make the call when I get home later? I can stay home tomorrow morning until about mid day I believe. If she starts dropping again, I won't go tonight.

Does her neuropathy play into the decision about what to do? I feel myself inclined to lower it or to drop it due to my schedule but want to take the effect of a high level on her neuropathy into consideration.
 
Re: 8/2 Gobnait +11 79 AMPS 62 +1 46 +3 83 +4 76 +6 83 +7 11

Cats typically don't get neuropathy without having much higher blood glucose levels. I'm not saying Gobnait doesn't have neuropathy, but cats usually have to have numbers that stay at least in the 300's over a sustained length of time. The reason I mention this is because I thought Champ had neuropathy until he was diagnosed with arthritis which can present with the same symptoms. At Gobnait's age, arthritis is a consideration. I put Champ on Xobaline (Sienne mentioned this methyl B12 supplement to you in one of your previous condos) which is a great supplement for neuropathy. Even though Champ was diagnosed with arthritis, I'm keeping him on the Xobaline because it seems to be helping his muscle weakness. If Gobnait ends up not having neuropathy, Xobaline won't hurt her and it might even help. If she does have neuropathy, it will almost definitely help. It's easily ordered through Amazon and is relatively inexpensive.
 
Re: 8/2 Gobnait AMPS 62 +1 46+3 83+4 76+5 82+6 83 +7 115+8

Thanks Patty!

She actually does have neuropathy. her levels were very high when I first brought her to the vet. In fact it was the neuropathy that was the first symptom I saw! i don't know how long her levels were that high. She's an indoor/outdoor cat (during the day anyway - my kitties have curfew) and neither of my cats like to use the litter box. she only started AFTER she felt less secure going down the stairs into the yard to her bathroom. I also always free fed and watered them so I didn't notice that either. i DID notice the terrible shedding but assumed that was age mixed with Spring.

Her coat is SO much better now. She seems to be urinating normally (from what I can tell, again she's never really used the litter box much in the past) and she does seem generally happy except for not being able to get around very well on her gams. she has it front AND back.

She's also always been a lazy kitty which makes lethargy hard to see and especially now with the trouble motoring, she does seem to want to spend more time in her favorite chair.

This is what is happening at the foot of my bed right now by the way

https://picasaweb.google.com/1132596768 ... 4827030578

and they both snore....
 
Re: 8/2 Gobnait AMPS 62 +1 46+3 83+4 76+5 82+6 83 +7 115+8

darn - i got all excited about seeing the pics but the photo album says it's private.

when you say you're gone from 6:30-10:30pm tonight, what are the + numbers that would be?

eta: wait, and when you say it would be an early shot, how much early would it be?
 
Re: 8/2 Gobnait AMPS 62 +1 46+3 83+4 76+5 82+6 83 +7 115+8

Oh and Gobnait is on Xobaline. Desmond has arthritis and also had ACL surgery about 3 years ago so he is on adequan. When I brought Gobnait in for the neuropathy, the vet x-rayed her to rule out any spinal injury and saw a little hip displasia so now SHE gets adequan too but this cat has some classic textbook neuropathy. down on the hocks behind, splay footed, dropped in front a bit too, not up on her toes. it also very very bilateral and when it improves it's on all four.. then drops back down a bit.

Like I said, I don't know how long she was sick before I saw it. If I had to guess from JUST the terrible coat as the only symptom, I'd say 6 months. It couldn't be longer than 10 because she does get regular annual exams and nothing turned up then in her blood test. She had the neuropathy about at least 4 days before she started treatment. I saw it on Sunday and actually thought her paw hair had grown too long behind and was causing her to slide around on the hardwood and tile so I trimmed it and called the matter closed. I saw it Wednesday on a rug, looked it up online and brought her right in. I researched and ordered Xobaline and had it overnighted that night. She went back into the vet for more monitoring the next day and came home to me in the evening with syringes and the alpha trak and some DM food. My SS shows her levels from the next day when I was just spot testing her and the vet had me lower the dosage twice.

I'm, hoping it's not too late to reverse the neuropathy. she HAS been going outside more lately but I don;t know if that is because she's more energetic or feels more stable on her feet.
 
Re: 8/2 Gobnait AMPS 62 +1 46+3 83+4 76+5 82+6 83 +7 115+8

Oh let me fix that album! so cute.

I'd be shooting her at 6:30 but then I wouldn't even be able to check her after. i shot her this morning at 7:30.

I have definitely done some late shots with her (7.18 for example)

i think really that aside from her 48 this morning (and I wish I'd tested it twice) that her numbers today weren't far from where they've been all month.
 
Re: 8/2 Gobnait AMPS 62 +1 46+3 83+4 76+5 82+6 83 +7 115+8

although you have to consider that she had dry crunchies (nom nom nom now punkin wants some) and some honey in there that got her to these numbers.

i don't know the answer to your question - i was just asking more questions to get a fuller picture. you might want to change your subject line (first post of the thread) to ask about shooting early and not being around for the first 4 hours to monitor.

what did you think of the options Jill laid out for you?
 
Re: 8/2 Gobnait AMPS 62 +1 46+3 83+4 76+5 82+6 83 +7 115+8

oh yes. good point. dry crunchies and honey.... sofunny, I've always called them crunchies too.

I like Jill's options and love that she took the time to write them out and even laid them out so that I could take my ability to monitor into account.

I'm scared to shoot early. i think I'd rather go late, don't you? I'll post that as a Q though I did once get that advice to always go late instead of early.
 
Re: 8/2 Gobnait AMPS 62 +1 46+3 83+4 76+5 82+6 83 +7 115+8

A question that hasn't been answered for you yet...her neuropathy is not taken into consideration when taking about her dose. Her numbers right now aren't affecting her neuropathy. Any neuropathy she has right now is from before she was diagnosed and will get more than likely get better as time goes on. How much Xobaline are you giving her? I know the recommended dose is 3 mg a day, but some cats benefit from higher doses. I personally give Champ 3 mg twice a day, at his AMPS and PMPS meals, sprinkled in his food. You definitely need Jill or Sienne to direct you when it comes to her dosing tonight. If you shoot an hour early, that's like a dose increase (because she still has an hour left of insulin in her body from her morning shot as it's a 12/12 insulin) and then you'd be left with having to shoot an hour earlier tomorrow morning until you can work your way back to your desired shot time (can be adjusted by 15 minutes each cycle, which is twice a day, or 30 minutes once a day). Since you already need advice on what dose to reduce Gobnait to, you would also then need to know what reduced dose to shoot because you're shooting early. After a day like today, with her low numbers, I wouldn't want to leave her alone for four hours after I shot, but that's me. I'm just exremely cautious. You can always PM Sienne or Jill if you need their advice before they actually come onto the board.
 
Re: 8/2 Gobnait +1 46 +5 82 +8 130 hold off and shoot late?

I just read Jill's post to you again about shooting today. She doesn't give the option of shooting late. Her options were to wait to see how this cycle finishes playing out and then see what dose you should shoot or, alternatively, skipping the shot altogether. Personally, I would skip the shot because then you wouldn't have a thing to worry about while you were out and you could actually enjoy yourself. Think of it as a fur shot and start fresh in the morning. Just get advise based on her number in the morning, as to what dose to shoot.
 
Re: 8/2 Gobnait +1 46 +5 82 +8 130 hold off and shoot late?

Thanks Patty!

i didn't really mean NECESSARILY shoot late. I mean more, go for the NOT shooting option and come home and test and if for some reason her level has skyrocketed then shoot. but there isn;t really enough room in the header for that.

I hear you about early and I don't want to do that, especially since I won't be around to monitor her after.

Re xobaline, at first i was giving her the half tab at AMPS and PMPS and now I give her a whole one twice a day. I just put it right into her little gob.

I really can't believe how good she's being about all of it. I tried to pill her about two years ago and she ninja poked EACH of my thumb pads, one right after the other, effectively crippling me for nearly a week. It was flat-out strategic.

Now she does protest but doesn't move really, except with the poking and the jerking away has led to some less than happy ouchie ear outcomes. God I wish I could just give those ears a break for a week.
 
Re: 8/2 Gobnait +1 46+5 82+8 130 hold off+shoot late if need

I hate to be the bearer of bad news, but you can't shoot late like that, not unless you want her next shot to be 12 hours from that one. If her numbers are high, they're high. It won't hurt her for one evening. We have some kitties (especially Gus who's an acro cat) who used to be off the meter high, where it only registered HI on the meter, all the time. He's perfectly healthy. Lantus is a very strict 12/12 insulin with very little leeway. I won't be offended if you feel you need to ask others about this.
 
Re: 8/2 Gobnait +1 46+5 82+8 130 hold off+shoot late if need

Oh I see. yes and that's why i also added that I could be home till late morning tomorrow but I will try just NOT shooting her and just test her tonight. and again early am and get feedback re dosage.

I hear you too about not going anywhere but i guess I can't help but think in terms of relativity. Is she more or actually LESS likely to drop this evening given that she was low this morning?

Is she more likely to have an episode when I'm out because she HASN'T for a while? Or because she just has?

Not that I want to play craps with my cat's health, I'm just something of a statistician and pragmatist by nature. Maybe there's a a study somewhere i can refer to but it seems that the one thing everyone agrees on is that lows create highs and vice versa.
 
Re: 8/2 Gobnait +1 46+5 82+8 130 hold off shooting tonight?

Stats/probabilty works great for many things. I'm not sure cats want to be governed by the laws of probability. They tend to prefer the role of outlier.
 
Re: 8/2 Gobnait +1 46+5 82+8 130 hold off shooting tonight?

Very good, Sienne!!!

As soon as you think you have your cat figured out, they change once again. I do believe they do it on purpose, just to keep us on our toes. And, of course, to make us pay for the pokies!!!
 
Re: 8/2 Gobnait +1 46+5 82+8 130 hold off shooting tonight?

Ha yes! of course if they are all outliers... they/re normal and we surely don't want that.

My orange outlier just coughed up a hairball as I was reading that, as if to make a point.

The black one is still snoring away happily seemingly unaware of the poke she gets in 10 minutes....
 
Re: 8/2 Gobnait +1 46+5 82+8 130 hold off shooting tonight?

what's an outlier? never heard that term!

cats appear to exist to throw curves into plans. that's my current philosophy on their reason for being.

"serve me. bend your life to suit me. you think you have a plan? you think you have a life? hahahahaha"

that's what punkin whispers at night when he's all alone. :lol:
 
Re: 8/2 Gobnait +1 46+5 82+8 130 hold off shooting tonight?

i can see punkin saying that.

mine have been REALLY easy for TEN years. they barely use the litter box, they love each other, they are charming, they smell good, i've had the same cat sitter now for about 5 years and she stays with them when i go away and they love her.... i just leave food out... they come in at night, are diurnal and sleep with me.... no one has gone missing in ages...

after ten years though I guess all that starts to change. they've taken good care of me though through grad school, a divorce. now it's my turn.
 
Re: 8/2 Gobnait +1 46+5 82+8 130 hold off shooting tonight?

hi, guys!!!

great job here today!!!

celi & binks
 
came home, tested and have never had her fight me so hard! has anyone's cat ever had watery eyes after a poke? do cats cry? seriously. she was 64. very glad didn't shoot earlier. let her have dry food, numbed her ears and will test again in the am.
 
so are you skipping tonight's shot?

punkin fought me tons for about the first month. we started burritoing him and he gave up. now he comes to the test spot and cries for us to test him so he can have food.
 
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