8/18 Josie (AMPS 394) (+6 330) (PMPS 235) AT

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eccentricfuzzyme

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My cat Josie was diagnosed last month and put on 3 units of lantus twice a day. She was raised to 4 units 2 weeks ago or so.
I got an Alpha Trak meter in order to do home curves.
Yesterday was the first one I ever did.
After posting the numbers here people suggested I did not give her her PM shot, so I did not.
Right now it is 2 hours before I would normally give her her AM shot for the day and her number is 414.
Should I give her her normal 4 units?
 
Re: 8/18 Josie 414 AlphaTrak

Welcome to Lantus Land, Angela!

Here's the link to your post on the Health board.

As I mentioned last night, given that the 4.0u dose was putting Josie into a range where it wasn't feasible for you to shoot, I'd suggest dropping the dose back to 3.0u. In addition, your vet raised Josie's dose from 3.0 to 4.0u. There's no way to know if there was a better dose somewhere in between. We change doses in 0.25u increments.

I'd suggest you look over the starred, sticky notes at the top of the Topics section of the board. It will help you to get oriented to this board.

Please ask questions. The people here are very generous with their information and are happy to lend a hand.
 
Re: 8/18 Josie 414 AlphaTrak

Good Morning Angela & Josie,

It's good to see you here in Lantus Land. Do try to read as many of the "informational" Stickies at the top of the Lantus Forum and ask as many questions as you need. It's good that you are taking Josie's dose back down, as Sienne suggested. All of us who were following your posts yesterday thought that 4 units were too much insulin. Fingers and paws crossed for a less anxious day for you today!

Ella & Rusty
 
Re: 8/18 Josie 414 AlphaTrak

Hi Angela,

You are in good hands. Trust the dosing advisors. They use the data you gather with your testing and the protocol - they have reasons for recommending what they do. It's overwhelming right now but after a week or so, and following along you will get more comfortable and your feet will be on the ground.

I know you are very busy, but printing out and reading the stickies in this lantus forum helps a lot. They may not make sense the first time you read them, but if you go back and re-read them through the next week they will make more sense.
 
Re: 8/18 Josie 414 AlphaTrak

Good morning Angela!!! Glad you found Lantus Land- Hope you and Josie have a great day!
 
Re: 8/18 Josie AMPS 394

I have read all the stickies, most of it is a bunch of jibber jabber to me.

I just did her AMPS reading, it is 394 and I will be giving her 3 units once she has eaten.
 
Re: 8/18 Josie AMPS 394

FWIW, Lantus doesn't take effect immediately. If Josie doesn't reliably eat, waiting to shoot until after she eats is fine. I give Gabby her shot while her face is in her food bowl. Test - feed - shoot in my house all occurs within the span of a few minutes.

Please let us know if you have questions about what you're reading. A good way to get a feel for what those notes mean is to read our condos and look at our spreadsheets (SS).
 
Re: 8/18 Josie AMPS 394

Angela!!!

We're so happy to have you in Lantus Land!!! You know...I understand this number may seem horribly high to you as did the 414, but it's ok.....it really isn't that bad for having skipped a shot. Getting Josie on the right dose, hometesting her, trying (if at all possible) to get her over to a canned diet....you will be amazed at the difference in how she feels.

I know cost is a concern so I would try to get a Relion meter.....lots of people use them and the strips are so much cheaper than the Alpha Trak. Your vet is not correct about human meters being unprecise. Every meter has a variance. The AT meters are expensive and so are the strips (very much so) and if you run out on a weekend....well, you're in big trouble. If you've paid for the AT, then use it as a backup remembering that the difference between the AT and a human meter is roughly 30 mg/dl.

Speaking of the AT, whenever you get a chance, could you please edit your subject line to put AT in it so everyone knows that's what you are using now. That makes a big difference when folks are looking quickly at numbers. For instance, if you posted "80" in your subject line, that's a great number for a human meter but that isn't what you're using--on an AT, it's the same as a "50" (roughly) and then people are going to want to check in and make sure everything is ok.

On food....I know cost is a concern. There are LOTS of people in the group that feed Fancy Feast....there are many low carb varieties. I won't belabor the issue....Sienne put a great post on your condo in Health yesterday with all the good info on feeding. The best thing is Josie will probably require less insulin on canned food AND we have seen many cats go off insulin after being converted to canned. There is no guarantee but less insulin is still less money.

We're here to help you....between the East Coast folks and the "West Coast Girls" :lol: :lol: :lol:, there's usually someone around. I know the Stickys are confusing so read through, make notes, and ask questions. That's why we're here.

You did great yesterday!!!!
 
Re: 8/18 Josie AMPS 394

good morning Angela & Josie!

hope you got some peaceful rest after the day you had yesterday!

glad to see you here in the Lantus Forum...

and you are one quick learner! took me awhile to learn the spread sheet...the condo...
and the Lantus Lingo dictionary...you did all that stuff while answering a barrage of posts questions :-D

looking forward to a good day for you...

celi & binks

tumblr_lh14w11YQH1qa6z3eo1_500.jpg
 
Re: 8/18 Josie AMPS 394

Good morning, Angela!! So glad you've decided to join us over in Lantus Land!! You'll find the folks here are like a family and the collective knowledge is a godsend in helping folks manage diabetes treatment for their furkids without needing to over-rely on vets. I think the most amazing thing about this forum is that it truly equips you with all the information you need to be the best possible advocate for Josie's care... sessions that you do have with the vet can become conversations rather than mere "we know everything, you must do what we tell you to do" sessions. On top of that, until you feel knowledgeable (and even after!), you'll have an almost 24 hour support network to help you make the best decisions for Josie in terms of her insulin needs.

I know several of us have mentioned the Relion meter. It sounds like cost is a major issue for you, and other than the vet bills, the test strips are, at this point, your major expense. You mentioned that you prefer not to shop online, so the Relion strips are going to be the best bang for your buck, and the meter is only $9. What is the vet charging you for test strips now? I'm guessing it comes out to somewhere between $1.00 and $1.20 per strip. The Relion strips are $20 for a 50 pack, or you can also get a 20 or 25 pack (don't remember which) for $12, which, for the 50 pack comes out to $0.40/strip.

I know how much of a difference that can make, because 8 months ago, I was in your shoes with a vet telling me that the AT was the only option for testing Willie. She was wrong, and your vet is too. To put it in perspective, for each Relion strip that you use instead of an Alphatrak one, you could buy a large 14 oz can of Special Kitty wet food, which would almost feed all of your cats for a day! Plus, if you are hometesting every day and you learn how to follow the protocol here, you'll be drastically cutting back your veterinary costs as well. You've already found the Lantus pens and the Walmart syringes as an option (and without having to plunk down huge sums for AT strips and vet visits, you can get the big box!). I'm assuming you got the box of 5 pens already... when you are ready to refill later this year, you should call around to both Costco and the outpatient pharmacies at your local hospitals... many of us have been able to purchase lantus pens one at a time, which doesn't save money but does allow us to spread the cost of the lantus out over several months.

I recommend printing out all of the stickies and putting them in a folder or binder. There is so much important information there, but as you've learned, it is a LOT to absorb. I found it was easier to have print outs so I could take my own notes on them, highlight, etc... when I needed a particular piece of information (like, "How to Shoot Low Numbers"), I didn't have to try to figure out which sticky I had seen the information in... it was right in front of me in my book. On the cover, I put the phone number and address of the closest emergency vet, so that if I ever had an an emergency, I wouldn't have to dig.

You should also create a kit for times when you have to deal with low numbers (and we all have been there!). Put in your box a bottle of light corn syrup or honey, some small cans of high carb wet food with gravy in it and some extra test strips. The dry food will raise numbers, but slowly... the corn syrup will work very fast, but will wear off just as quickly, whereas the high carb food will raise the numbers, but will generally be more effective at keeping them up.

Please continue to ask questions... you'll be amazed at how quickly you become a pro at all of this!!
 
Re: 8/18 Josie AMPS 394

Morning to you and Josie and a big welcome to LL from Do Lou and I you have found the perfect place for guidance :mrgreen: :mrgreen:
 
Re: 8/18 Josie (AMPS 394) (+6 330)

I just took a reading again and it was 330 (at almost +6). That is much higher than yesterdays midday readings, but last night I didnt inject at all, and this morning gave only 3 units instead of 4.


Also, I went and bought some EVO food. It is only a little cheaper than the vet stuff (32 instead of 38 for a 3kg bag) but it has less carbs and more protein. I am going to start mixing the two together to switch them over. Will this effect her numbers or dosage?
 
Re: 8/18 Josie (AMPS 394) (+6 330)

I'm glad that you found the Evo- while it wasn't much cheaper by weight, you don't feed as much (as it is so high calorie) so it will last longer. I imagine that feeding a lower carb food will affect Josie's numbers a bit. But, you are on a reduced dose so that's a good thing.

Lantus is a slow acting insulin so it takes a few days to really know what a dose will do. After a few days on 3u you'll have a better idea of how Josie is reacting to 3u- particularly with the lower carb food.
 
Re: 8/18 Josie (AMPS 394) (+6 330) AT

I have been reading the stickies. I dont have a printer, but i copy and pasted the info then edited down and emailed it to myself. still dont get it all, and it is confusing to me big time. maybe it will be easier once i switch to a different meter. i will do so when it is time to buy new strips.
 
Her PMPS is 235, it came down, so I guess that is good.
I am going to go ahead and give her the 3 units once she eats unless someone tells me not to again. Her numbers arent as low as they were last night so I assume it is safe.
 
This looks good to go. I would suggest that you get a test at +2. A typical Lantus curve should look like this:

+0 - PreShot number.
+1 - Usually higher than PreShot number because of the last shot wearing off. May see a food spike in this number.
+2 - Often similar to the PreShot number.
+3 - Lower than the PreShot number, onset has started.
+4 - Lower.
+5 - Lower.
+6 - Nadir/Peak (the lowest number of cycle).
+7 - Surf (hang around the nadir number).
+8 - Slight rise.
+9 - Slight rise.
+10 - Rising.
+11 - Rising (may dip around +10 or +11).
+12 - PreShot number

So, getting a +2 can give you a clue about how the curve may go. If the +2 is a lot lower than your pre-shot, most likely it will be an active cycle.
 
her shot is at 11 pm before i go to bed. +2 would be 1 in the morning!
I dream of a day when she can get down to one shot a day instead of two, schedualing my life around 2 shots is hell!
 
Angela: welllllll......we never shoot lantus just once a day. It's always done twice a day. The dose just gets lower but you have to give it twice a day. Sorry to be the bearer of bad tidings. ;-) ;-)

We're really glad you're here. I hope you get some rest tonight.
 
Damnit, I did not know that. That sucks big time. It means I can never sleep over anywhere, never go to the cottage even just for a day. Being chained to her is making it very hard for me to enjoy her company and not resent her.
Do other insulins go to once a day? Do people(cats) ever switch insulins once they get "better". I cannot imagine doing this for the rest of her life, my entire life has been altered for the worse and all my plans put on hold. I thought it was temporary.
 
sometimes it is!

binks started lantus 09/10...and went into remission after 6 months, in April 2011.

we're back on the last cpl weeks...but it may be temporary, or it may not.
lots of cats have been in remission for years...
some never go into remission.

lots of folks have very good strategies for getting away while their cat is on insulin...
my thought is take it one day at a time until you get less overwhelmed and more familiar...
it's not as bad as it must seem to you now.

hard to tell...but there's always hope!

celi
 
Sorry to come off harshly as I know you are emotional and overwhelmed, but I would give anything to get Maverick back. Anything. Sure it was inconvenient, but he's gone and I can attend all the social events I want. I'd rather have him back. Josie is a gift and you have the ability to return the unconditional love she gives you. She is a gift and every day you have with her is a gift.

Josie right now is unregulated. Most likely if you listen to the boards advice she will become regulated. You will know what she does after her injections and how to manage it so you will be able to have a life. When you get Josie switched to low carb wet food, she may not even need insulin and may go into remission and be diet managed. But in order for that to happen she has to earn her reductions and she does that by going into the low numbers so you have to monitor closely for the first month or two as she earns these reductions. The whole goal of the protocol that this board follows is to get cats into remission and OTJ - off the juice. Its a proven protocol. It takes commitment to get there.

Take some time to breath. It's not the end of the world. Its just something you have to do. And you will in the end say it was worth it. You aren't alone in this. This group is like a close family. It's okay to vent, we have all felt discouraged. Just wanted to give you some perspective.
 
Angela:

When we started this journey (a year ago today), we thought Gracie would be off the juice quickly. She isn't. If you have time, please read our condo today.....I hope it might give you some perspective. As hard as it is, it has taught us so many things. We have our whole lives to do whatever we want whenever we want. We only have Gracie for a short time within that long life.

Please don't resent your Josie. The sad thing is....it is often something we have done that causes them to get FD. I let Gracie have steroids....and now she is a steroid induced diabetic. Maybe you fed Josie dry food her whole life. I'm not pointing fingers or blaming but the way I see it, I OWE Gracie.

Like Karrie said, breathe....look at some of the other condos. We have a good time and share a lot of laughter and also tears.

Lantus is a great insulin. Just give it time.
 
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