8/14 TASHIE home ***Freak out #2***

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BorisV

BorisV

Member Since 2013
http://www.felinediabetes.com/FDMB/viewtopic.php?f=9&t=102230

Doctor just called me - here's the scoop:

Tashie doing really well. She is eating on her own - they have NOT been giving her the Cyproheptadine (appetite stimulant) and they say she is eating really well. She is eating BOTH the wet & the dry DM.

BG still high - had her on "R" insulin but switched her back to Lantus last night. Prior to hospitalization she was on .5U they started her on 1U last night. He was "tempted" to do 1.5U this morning but kept at the 1U to see how she is mid cycle. May have to up her to 1.5U tomorrow.
*** I am sure that the Dry DM is causing this as she seems to be VERY carb sensitive

Now here is the BIGGEST news - other than she is Ketone free. When she was eating the DRY DM before, she went up to 5 pounds 6 ounces (from 4 pounds 10 ounces) I was elated! Once I transitioned her off the dry and back onto the LC wet, she lost a lot of weight again - last Thursday she was down to 5 pounds, I was so dismayed.

In the few days that she has been in hospital, she is now 5 pounds 3.4 ounces. She OBVIOUSLY needs more calories than the less than 5% carb food gives her.

This is a hard decision. Do I feed her the dry DM AND LC wet? Do I find a medium carb wet and go that way?

If ketones NEED "insulin" AND "food" ........ putting her on a higher dose of insulin AND feeding her a combo of the wet & dry .......will this help guard against the ketones?

Thoughts out there?
 
Re: 9/14 TASHIE Coming home today!!!

YAY! :RAHCAT She will be so happy to be home with her brother! Poor baby girl!

If you really don't want to feed her the dry, then try the higher carb canned foods. When Bob decides he wants to eat the canned food, he really likes the higher carb ones. Maybe they taste better?? Anyway, I don't think the higher carb will keep her BG up for too long tho. The dry will do that more. Maybe just keep here where she is right now (with the canned and dry) and see how her BG does and then decide. She probably just needs a little break for now from "testing".

Glad she's doing well. Hope you have a good day! :-D
 
Re: 9/14 TASHIE Coming home today!!!

Our rule of thumb is that when there is another medical issue besides the diabetes, you shoot around it. So if she needs a slightly higher carb diet to maintain her weight, go ahead and do that and adjust the insulin accordingly. Will she go off the juice? Probably not. Does it matter to you?
 
Re: 9/14 TASHIE Coming home today!!!

BJ: Thanks for your reply. Yes, it would be great for her to go "OTJ" ...... but, more importantly, she needs to be kept safe & as healthy as possible. Seems to *me* that when I get her on a lower dose of insulin, this is when we have problems. Yes, she does respond to .5U and even .25U but it seems like it's "not enough" for her and she becomes ketonic?

If she needs insulin for the rest of her little life, so be it and I will do whatever she needs. I do think letting her go low makes her bounce too hard. And, I'd like to get some "fighting weight" back on her, I'd like to see if I can get her to 6 pounds - might be dreaming but I did get her up to 5 pounds 6 ounces - but once back on the LC, she dropped back down to 5.

It sounds like more insulin and a few more carbs may be what SHE needs - and, somehow stop her from tumbling so low. ECID - and Tashie certainly is. I think I need to try a different form of "TR" for her and I am sure that will have it's challenges as well. And I am hoping that you, and other members, will help me with this "different" TR.

So, in answer to your question
Does it matter to you?
Click to expand...
.......not as much as her LIFE and quality of it matters to me :smile: That is at the top of my priority list!

B

PS: Busy cleaning and prepping the "infirmary" (guest room) for her welcome home party!
 
Re: 9/14 TASHIE Coming home today!!!

Awesome!!! I am sooooo glad to hear Tashie is coming home today and so happy to hear she is eating. I dont have any advice on the food, but Im sure others will give you some opinions. Hope you have a great day!!! Welcome back home Tashie! :-D
 
Re: 9/14 TASHIE Coming home today!!!

Thank you Jamie & Jupe! I know you have your hands full - hang in there, you are doing a GREAT job! Tashie thanks you for welcoming her home! :-D :-D :-D
 
Re: 9/14 TASHIE Coming home today!!!

Tashie will be so happy to be home again. Sounds like Tashie's dance card has a few more difficult steps... like the Tango.
 
Re: 9/14 TASHIE Coming home today!!!

Yea! Congratulations! I don't have any advice on the food issue either, but

BJM says
Our rule of thumb is that when there is another medical issue besides the diabetes, you shoot around it. So if she needs a slightly higher carb diet to maintain her weight, go ahead and do that and adjust the insulin accordingly.
Click to expand...

That makes perfect sense to me.

I hope you & Tashi have a great day today getting caught up on snuggles!
 
Re: 9/14 TASHIE Coming home today!!!

You might try a modest increase in carb level to the 10-15% calories from carbohydrates range.

And remember that dietary fat can get broken down ito carbs if needed, so check the fat content too. Kitten foods may be an option as they are intended for growth and development and may help put some weight on.
 
Re: 9/14 TASHIE Coming home today!!!

Thanks Suzanne (and Tigger too!) Boris is catching up on his sleep as he'll probably be watching over her very carefully when she comes home, and that's a full time job! If only I could teach him to test her.....
I can tell he misses her, sad.

Have a great day! We hope to around here!
 
Re: 9/14 TASHIE Coming home today!!!

BJ:
You might try a modest increase in carb level to the 10-15% calories from carbohydrates range.

And remember that dietary fat can get broken down into carbs if needed, so check the fat content too. Kitten foods may be an option as they are intended for growth and development and may help put some weight on.
Click to expand...

......the only problem with kitten food is that doesn't some have MILK in it? I am going to delve intensively into the we food options - and even "Max Cat" by Iams? ...... Gees, don't want to bulk Boris up too much but I have noticed that he isn't eating as much as usual either - think he's a carb man! The other reason to find WET and not dry is that he really shouldn't be eating it either as he had feline idiopathic cystitis and has had a perineal urethrostomy ..........yes, I have "million dollar cats"
 
Re: 9/14 TASHIE Coming home today!!!

Bern

So glad Tashie is coming home. Did you realize it's only August...not yet September (subject line) :lol: :lol:

Carbs are different than calories! Tashie needs more CALORIES not necessarily more CARBS. She "might" need more carbs to manage her insulin but she needs more CALORIES to put on weight. She should be getting a minimum of 30 calories per pound per day. Many cats do fine with 20 calories per lb per day but I'd go higher with her. So you have a couple choices: feed her normal wet food but calculate how much food she should get to give her 30 calories/lb/day. If you even want to shoot for 6 lbs so she'd get 180 cal/day, that's fine because that's where you probably want her. OR you can find a more calorie dense food to give her so she doesn't have to actually EAT so much. But you still need to go with somewhere in the 5-8% carb range and low phosphorus.

Please focus on calories for weight gain; carbs for diabetes control; low phosphorus foods for CKD. :-D :-D

Iams Max Cat is calorie dense, yes. And it is low carb. But I don't have the phosphorus on it and for some reason I was thinking I read that CKD cats shouldn't have it because it's higher in P but I could be so wrong on that.
 
Re: 8/14 TASHIE Coming home today!!!

Did you realize it's only August...not yet September (subject line0
Click to expand...
..........wishful thinking maybe? Or, maybe because we are having some lovely cooler temps? Or, just a blonde thing :-D

Yes, I do realize carbs are different than calories and that calories are what will make her a nice, fluffy FAT cat ;-)

I have found a few sites with EXTENSIVE food lists that also have web sites (example) http://www.felinecrf.org/canned_food_usa.htm#canned_usa and plan on spending a few hours trolling through - wish companies HAD to list carbs - makes it challenging!

Please focus on calories for weight gain; carbs for diabetes control; phosphorus for CKD.
Click to expand...

Yes, this was my plan. ;-) ;-)

Thanks! ! ! ! ! ! ! !
Super duper excited to bring her home but will TRY to not spend the whole time "watching her blink" ....... we will have a much longer drive than she is used to - there are 3 different ways to come home and I am plotting out which one she might like the best!
 
Re: 8/14 TASHIE Coming home today!!!

Welcome home Tashie. You'll figure out a food regimen for her Bern. Izzy has CKD too and we simply do the best we can to keep them as happy and safe as possible.
 
Re: 8/14 TASHIE Coming home today!!!

Thanks Janet ( and Izzy too!) ........ guess were are BOTH in the "Million Dollar Club" :-D Actually, :-x

Would you mind sharing what foods do you feed Izzy?

Thanks!
 
Re: 9/14 TASHIE Coming home today!!!

BorisV said:
BJ:
...the only problem with kitten food is that doesn't some have MILK in it? ...
Click to expand...

Not always - Evo Cat and Kitten - no milk listed

From Dr Pierson's table:
Turkey/Chicken Cat/Kitten calories from
protein 33%, fat 64%, carbohydrate 3%
and fat may be broken down for carbs as needed.
 
Re: 8/14 TASHIE Coming home today!!!

Sure. I feed her wet food only now. I was previously allowing her access to Now grain free kibble because it was lower in Phosphorus than some of the other holistic lines.

She is allergic to corn, wheat, and soy and gets hot spots.

So I am currently feeding Fancy Feast Pate': tender beef, gourmet chicken, turkey and giblets, savory salmon, ocean whitefish and Tuna, chopped grill (or something like that), cod,sole and shrimp.

She gets all flavors of sheba (though I don't think anyone knows the carb/phosphorus in it). I used the sheba gravy for low glucose level boosts.

She gets Friskies pate which ever flavor she's likes in the moment.

I will toss in cans of the old merrick bg and soulistic (which is the same as weuva) but she prefers junk food over holistic food.

I have started adding aluminum hydroxide gel powder to them since her last blood work showed her calcium +phosphorus = 7.

She also gets fancy feast appetizers (1/2 am and pm) or boiled chicken which I mix her Miralax in (am) and her jarrows b and Zobaline in (pm).
 
Re: 8/14 TASHIE Coming home today!!!

Oh yes! You must be so excited that Tashie gets to come home today. Get that infirmary ready for her and Ibet Boris will be twining around ankles and giving kisses to Tashie.

Quality over quantity. You want Tashie to have a good, healthy life. So feed her the best you can, to keep her weight up, CKD under control and diabetes numbers within reason.
 
Re: 8/14 TASHIE Coming home today!!!

So happy Tashie is coming home! Best wishes for whatever method you decide for her. I know you will figure something out. You are such a good mommabean.

Enjoy your day together.
P.S. Such a nice picture of your son the other day. What a cutie!
 
Re: 8/14 TASHIE Coming home today!!!

Happy she is coming home!!!

About those carbs....

Marje pointed out that what she needs is more calories, not more carbs. I could not possibly agree more. No kitty, diabetic or not, requires a single carbohydrate in their diet. Their bodies are not meant to eat carbs. Unlike humans, or most animals, cats are "special"...
http://maxshouse.com/feline_nutrition.htm
All animals have a metabolic requirement for glucose. Carnivores, such as the cat, convert glucogenic amino acids and glycerol to glucose for the maintenance of blood glucose, and therefore, have no established dietary requirement for carbohydrates.

Because cats have adapted to diets high in protein and low in carbohydrate, continuous activity of amino acid catabolic enzymes provides a continuous source of carbon skeletons for glucose or energy production and nitrogen for synthesis of dispensable amino acids and other nitrogenous compounds. This continuous metabolic state causes the cat to catabolize a substantial amount of protein after each meal, regardless of its protein content. The cat does not have the capability to conserve nitrogen from the body's general nitrogen pool leading to an obligate nitrogen loss and a higher dietary protein requiremerit than omnivores.
Click to expand...

Cats don't convert fats (or proteins for that matter) into "carbs" like BJ said. They convert them into "glucose". Tashie needs to gain weight, and the only way to do that is to increase her caloric intake per day. "Fat" is probably going to add more calories per gram than proteins will. But "carbs" are not going to do the trick, and will cause more harm than good. She's diabetic. No carbs needed. Or wanted.

In general, an absence of dietary carbohydrate in the feline diet will not affect blood glucose levels or cause an energy deficiency; this is because the body can use protein and the glycerol portion of fat for glucose production, and fat and protein for energy.
Click to expand...
The "opposite" of that would be that the presence of dietary carbohydrates in the feline diet will affect blood glucose levels. They won't cause an energy "surplus". They'll just stay in her bloodstream, spill over into her urine, and cause the need for larger doses of insulin. That might be acceptable, and you could up the dose to compensate. But any time I see someone mention upping the dose to counteract the higher levels of carbs in the diet, the only thing I can think is "OK, what happens when kitty barfs, or refuses to eat, and nobody is home to notice?" Once the insulin is "in", it ain't coming back out. It's going to push down the BG numbers just like it's supposed to do. The "counter" to that is food. If the food isn't there to counter the insulin, the BG is dropping. Most likely lower than you want it to drop. The "best case" scenario there is low numbers and a nice fat bounce to follow. That's the "best case"...

I'm not a big fan of increasing carbs and using higher doses as an "offset" to that.

The page I linked to and quoted from is my favorite "feline nutrition" page. It contains a lot of what Dr. Lisa's site contains, plus a whole lot more. Like it explains another good reason why dry food isn't a good choice. Lots of people think it helps their teeth somehow. But actually, cat's teeth are not made to eat crunchy food. Nor are the muscles of their jaw suited to "chewing" like people's are. Their mouths are designed to rip apart raw flesh, not to "grind up food".

Anyway, if you have time to kill, that link will keep you busy for a few hours.
 
Re: 8/14 TASHIE Coming home today!!!

BorisV said:
Did you realize it's only August...not yet September (subject line0
Click to expand...
..........wishful thinking maybe? Or, maybe because we are having some lovely cooler temps? Or, just a blonde thing :-D

Yes, I do realize carbs are different than calories and that calories are what will make her a nice, fluffy FAT cat ;-)

I have found a few sites with EXTENSIVE food lists that also have web sites (example) http://www.felinecrf.org/canned_food_usa.htm#canned_usa and plan on spending a few hours trolling through - wish companies HAD to list carbs - makes it challenging!

Please focus on calories for weight gain; carbs for diabetes control; phosphorus for CKD.
Click to expand...

Yes, this was my plan. ;-) ;-)

Thanks! ! ! ! ! ! ! !
Super duper excited to bring her home but will TRY to not spend the whole time "watching her blink" ....... we will have a much longer drive than she is used to - there are 3 different ways to come home and I am plotting out which one she might like the best!
Click to expand...

You can use this chart from Dr. Lisa's site, which shows you carbs but is sorted by "phosphorus content" from lowest to highest.
http://www.catinfo.org/docs/FoodChartPhosphorus9-22-12.pdf
 
Re: 8/14 TASHIE Coming home today!!!

In vet circles:

1 gram of protein is 3.5 calories
1 gram of carbohydrate is 3.5 calories
1 gram of fat is 8.5 calories.

If you're looking for weight gain, adding fat sources she likes/tolerates should help unless there is some form of malabsorption happening. How do her feces look? If firm little tootsie roll shapes, she's probably digesting fine. If stinky, puddin' poo, talk with the vet.




um ... glucose is a form of simple carbohydrate
 
Re: 8/14 TASHIE Coming home today!!!

um ... glucose is a form of simple carbohydrate
Click to expand...

Understood. But you don't add "CARBS" to a diabetic cat's diet in order to make it gain weight. You add calories (fats and/or proteins). Let the cat turn those calories into energy on its own, the way its body is designed to do by Mother Nature. Adding "carbs" is sort of like pouring gas on a fire to try to put it out. No cats, diabetic or not, require carbohydrates in their food. There is a risk involved with increasing carb levels AND increasing insulin to compensate that people should realize exists. Increasing carb levels is counterintuitive to treating the disease.
 
Re: 8/14 TASHIE Coming home today!!!

There is a backbone on a triglyceride fat molecule that has 3 legs going off of it.
Each of these legs is actually a carbohydrate molecule.
When needed, the cat's metabolism can snip off that backbone, and snip apart those carbohydrate molecules to make glucose.
Pretty cool, actually.
Our metabolism can do that, too.

At least, it can when it is working properly.
 
Re: 8/14 TASHIE Coming home today!!!

So I picked up Tashie and I'm leaving her to rest - not easy but I'm trying. All of a sudden I am feeling so sad and overwhelmed. They loaded me up with bags of fluids & needles ...... have to start giving SubQ's .....yeah, yeah, I know, there is a site that shows you how - what I'm going to do is go down on Friday and then every M, W & F for two weeks and physically SEE and then try myself. I am just sort of weepy eyed and shaky at the thought of trying to manage the diabetes AND CRF. I don't want this! Having a mini melt down...........

Are they telling me to let her have the dry DM as a "quality of life" issue? Meaning - let her eat what the hell she wants because she doesn't have long? I kept ASKING about a HIGH CALORIE low phosphorus food that is also a med / low carb and they kept insisting that I give her the damn DRY DM. Okay, but I just read that cat's in CRF should NEVER have dry food!

Then I just called my regular (STUPID) vet to see if she got the ER info ...... and she was kind of stand offish and cold to me and said that I should listen to Dr. Watshisname as he knows what he's doing and, yes, I can bring her down for Sub Q's but I should go to him for the other stuff.......she would NOT talk food with me - deferred to "HIM" (being at the ER)

Carl, I printed out the first 8 pages of the food list as it was pointless to print all - just printed out up to 259 phos. level. The only ones I see so far that "fit the need" are:

Wellness Core Beef, Venison & Lamb / Pinnacle Chicken & Ocean Fish/ Friskies Special Turkey & Giblets Dinner (?) /Wellness Turkey ..........after that it goes above 200 phos.

SO, let me go have a cry and come back. Just feeling really down. The reason I got Bo & Tash was because I lost my white Persian, Abbey to CRF and it all happened so fast and it's like reliving it over again. Today wasn't SUPPOSED to be like this!
 
Re: 8/14 TASHIE Coming home today!!!

I agree, after the first few pages, that sorted list becomes pointles to anyone looking for low phosphorus numbers.

Bern,
Sub-q's are not the end of the world. Watch Marje's video of Gus getting fluids. He gets them everyday, and it doesn't look like he cares at all. I completely understand your reaction when you saw the 18g "harpoons". Bob got 35-40 harpoons while he was on insulin and getting fluids. I had no problems at all poking his ears a few times a day. I had no problems at all jabbing the insulin syringe into his leg muscles twice a day (long story, but he got IM shots, not sub-q shots). But the very first time I had to hold him down and poke him with that 18g needle, I almost lost it. When you can "hear" the needle break through the skin......shuddering two years later as I type this. But he and I "got past that". We had to. Like I said, I did it 35-40 times. And he was a trooper. I wish I'd known that you could get 21 or 22 gauge thin-walled needles back then, but I didn't. But the truth is, the sub-q thing bothered me a hell of a lot more than it bothered Bob. After he got the fluids, it was like he was a different cat. The improvement was remarkable, and almost instantaneous. And I got to have fun calling him a "humpty-backed camel" until the fluids got absorbed. :lol:

The only food you listed that I ever used was the Friskees Special Diet. I wasn't dealing with phosphorus issues though. But both kitties loved the food, and it was low carb to boot.

Nobody is "up" every day with this, Bern. Have a good cry. Recharge your batteries. And then come back and cry, vent, laugh, whatever. We'll be here. ;-)

And please try to keep in mind - Tashie has no clue. She doesn't know she's FD, or CRF or CKD or any of the acronyms. She just knows that some days she feels good, other days she feels crappy. But every day, she feels LOVED. That's what really matters.
 
Re: 8/14 TASHIE Coming home today!!!

Thanks Carl - I needed that having a good weep bu I'm outside, don't want to do in the house. Don't want that little girl to pick up on this. On a brighter note, Boris was just lovely with her and is hanging out under the bed with her - he's her guardian. I think Tashie is tired so I'm trying to leave her be / I'm sure staying at an ER hospital was livelier than she likes.
 
Re: 8/14 TASHIE Coming home today!!!

Bern, I'm so sorry you are going through this! I know you can do it though! :YMHUG:

I think you were looking for pate style food, so just a quick note that the Wellness Core is on the pate side and both my girls liked it.
 
Re: 8/14 TASHIE Coming home today!!!

I cared for my civvie Kiddle for 5 years dealing with CRF; she was 18 when it was time to cross the Rainbow Bridge. I had her from birth and din't know about long term dry food diets facilitating CRF.

She wouldn't let me do fluids. She would be offered the canned renal diet. Sometimes she ate it; sometimes, she wouldn't. I let her eat what she would, beyond that.
 
Re: 8/14 TASHIE Coming home today!!!

Oh, this is kind of important....

Quote from my discharge papers:

Nataschia does appear to have a urinary tract infection (a verbal report from the laboratory reports that bacteria is growing although I do not have the final results yet) Please give the antibiotic Clavamox as directed above. We might change this based on the final culture and sensitivity results.

So, this, most likely, is why the ketones.

Guess it takes 5 or more days for the culture to grow. THINK it was taken Sunday night or possibly Monday?

Trying to hold it together........ :YMSIGH:
 
Re: 8/14 TASHIE Coming home today!!!

((Bern))
You're tapped out. It's ok to feel overwhelmed and cry. We've all been there and understand.
I hope you're able to get some rest tonight.

I give Ripley sub-q fluids every day (started the past Valentine's Day).
I seems scary at first, but you'll get the hang of it.
I use all of the tips from Marje's video.
Let me know if I can help out...

PS: Ripley loves the Wellness Turkey.

:YMHUG:
 
Re: 8/14 TASHIE Coming home today!!!

Sending big hugs!
It's all overwhelming....
you just have to take it one day at a time. You'll look back in a few months and think how amazing you are ... and how routine it has all become.
 
SO. Here I go .......again. Sorry! Just WAY overwhelmed right now.
I was instructed to up dose to 1.5U tonight - as she has been HIGH for DAYS........she did come down with some "R" but that was BEFORE they started the DM Dry .......she's been through the roof ever since. I am a self confessed CHICKEN S*** when it comes to dosing insulin - it scares me - there, I've said it!

I drew TWO syringes tonight 1U for IF she showed a number and 1.5U if she showed a "word" .....it was the word - surprise, surprise! I could TELL she was HIGH! So we shot 1.5U .......I put the WET 4% food down with the "homemade chicken broth" al la Marje and waited a whole hour! NOTHING! She ate NOTHING! Crap! I have just dosed her with 1.5U of Insulin and she is not eating - GREAT! They told me NOT to use the Cypo (appetite stimulant) as she was eating for them ...... well, the little s*** is holding out for the crack! After an hour, I caved and she scarfed on the DM DRY ........ And I KNOW she is as high as a kite! She has been drinking water incessantly since she's been home (5 hours) and I just did litter box - she's peed 5 - 6 times!

So........then, Jim takes Mikko for a walk - I decide to see if she will come downstairs for "turkey treats" to get SOME LC in her ........ Yes! Little one came toddling down, slipping all over the wood floors as she's been in a hospital cage for 72 hours and I just un bandaged her one leg at shot time ..... toddle, toddle, wonky toddle ...... "what mummy?" ........ "Turkey treats Tash" ........ "Nah, mum, I've got crack upstairs .... see ya" and off she went..........

What is the point of even testing tonight! There is NO way she's going anywhere ....... at this rate we will be at 3U by this time tomorrow.

DO I go back to the Cypro - which makes her eat ANYTHING? DO I allow her "quality of life" and let her eat DRY DM and dose her 5u and HOPE she doesn't have a hair ball? _ oh, and I just have to add that in their initial assessment of Tash they said that her hair was "unkempt" ...... really! Eh, well, I tested for Ketones --- she was HIGH - I had to poke her ear 15 times due to nerves - she had a half gallon of Neosporin on her .... and, as prior to this they had shaved her tummy it was growing in funky and there were a FEW knots that I didn't want to poke around with as I think I poke her enough! Seriously!

I am at my wits end. I have a little kitty cat that is high on crack right now but won't seem to eat anything else - have to get weight on her - can't "starve" her out as she has 1.5U on insulin in her .....HELP! I want to slit my writs!
 
PS. Just thought I'd add that I just paid almost $5000 to get her back - and I get back a CRACK addict? She was crack free when she went in 72 hours ago!
 
Sorry to hear she had ketones again.. I have been so sad about Bonnie I haven't been here as much as usual. I am glad Tashie is ok now though!!!

I think you have some ideas here though. Ie did the infection cause the ketones, or will you try a medium carb wet like BJ said or keep on the high carb dry? Or go with a medium carb high calorie dry?

Difficult decision but you sound over stressed, take a day to breathe and come back and read what everyone said over again and think about it when your head is clearer.


Wendy
 
Priorities as I see them.

1. Get Tashie to eat. Whatever she will eat. She just came home and needs to settle back in. Don't worry about what food she is eating right now. Be glad she is eating, and eating well.

2. Insulin. May be a higher dose for now, but you work with what you have going on. That happens to be Princess Tashie being picky about what she will eat.

3. Antibiotic. Needs some time to work to get rid of that UTI. Until that is gone, she'll be in higher numbers. You just got rid of the ketones and the antibiotic should help to keep them at bay.

4. Sleep. For you. You need some nice restful, renewing, and refreshing sleep so you can deal with having Tashie home again.
 
If dry gets her to eat, what about slowly blending in Wellness Core Original (11% calories from carbohydrates) as a reasonable compromise on the carbs/dry issue?

And if Evo Cat & Kitten gets back on the market, its only 8% calories from carbohydrates.

Sort of a gradual step down process while you're stabilizing her.
 
Thanks guys! I am "really" not as ditzy as I must sound - just so let down. Went to get her --- all excited --- feeling like I was picking up a new born baby, had her room all ready .... been fussing and watching clock all day. Nervous & excited, you know! Then, to be handed bags of fluids, line, needles ......... it was a huge WHAT? WHAT? WHAT? What do you want me to do with this ......and, they had ASSumed, from all the tests and the SS I provided that this would be "no big deal" as I'm superwoman, right? They were so blown away with how much I've done so far that they sort of figured that I'd just "slip right into this" .......NOT! I will though, just not today. I am going to do a +3 on her - have a feeling that she hasn't moved an inch - I am SURE I will get that WORD - I HATE that word! So.........do I give her 2U in the morning?!!! Or, give 1 more day at 1.5U?

And here we were at .5U and she pulled a 56 on Saturday! Really! Really?
 
So.........do I give her 2U in the morning?!!! Or, give 1 more day at 1.5U?
Click to expand...

My opinion.... no, don't up it in the morning. Something has to stay constant or you won't be able to make heads or tails of the numbers. If you have to serve 6 courses of food to get her to eat one, go for it.
 
CARL! Just did a +3 ........thought for SURE she would still be HIGH - she was 492 - so at least she is moving! Sure, it ain't great but it's something .......Oh! And her right ear is all bruised! I didn't do that! Obviously I need to call them tomorrow and go over just HOW to do this :twisted: :twisted: :twisted:

Thanks for all your words today - that have NOT gone unheeded! You have a great "calming" and "voice of reason" and STRESS HEADS sometimes need that - truly appreciated! Really! Not just sayin'!

xxB

B ( and Tish Tash too)
 
Bern I feel for you. Honestly, Izzy is a good eater WHEN she LIKES her food. I put out 2 types of canned food 2 x per day for her cause I never know what she might like today. I also give her FF Appetizers or boiled chicken breast. Yes they have a purpose with supplements but really, she almost always eats chicken breast and I will take it :)

I over think things, over analyze, over research, over everything and freak myself out. Once I get past my freak outs..things usually start to make sense or I can at least work through them.

ECID...you see that a LOT here. :) I think you just need to figure out what works for Tashie. Try and find a balance that keeps her safe from ketones and out of the vet. It is how I had to manage Izzy's CRF. I mixed it up some...I tried different supplements. I have a whole jar of RenaFood she hated..suppose to be awesome but if they won't eat it...well it's sits. So I tried something different. Everyone was using Azodyl. I tried a different probiotic and it worked for us. I knew her numbers would slowly climb...it is inevitable. So I try not to stress over that. I just look for the next thing.

I stress over he diabetes and her numbers. In my head I hear treat the cat not the numbers (my CRF/CKD Mantra). Then I see her diabetic numbers and it stresses me out lol It's still new to me. But I can say since 7/1 when we started I no longer go over and poke her to make sure she is sleeping and not dead. Pretty sure Izzy thought I was mental...ok so I was mental. It's getting better. Now I freak out when the numbers are high and the numbers are low...not all the time....hahaha baby steps :)

You got a lot of good advice about food. I used to buy 1 flavor of a million foods and when Izzy ate one I peeled the lable and saved it. I also quit stressing about feeding food that I felt was lower quaiity. I have a part time job in the pet food industry and I am a food freak, so FF goes against everything in me...BUT...they have to eat.

As for sub Qs...honestly I find them easier than insulin. Junk those harpoons. For perspective...I use 18g needs for my horses! Get Terumo 21s. Ultra thin wall. Uber sharp. Warm the fluids. Run the fluid out the line against your wrist even if the infrared thermo said it's warm enough...run the line until you reach warm fluids. Hang the bag high..I have one of those 3m wall stickup hoods up that hang it on. Have yummy treats.

The hardest part of SubQs is warming the bag :) Case in point...I am now going to turn on the hot water in the sink for the 3rd time and start over because I keep walking away and forgetting to change it out when it's warm, back to hot...so it is now COLD WATER AGAIN. :-Q
 
I just want to send some hugs your way, Bern. We're all here for you, so you are never alone in this. Take joy in having Tashie home, and in seeing a number instead of a word tonight. You are a seriously awesome bean!!
 
Bern

What a difficult day for you and I know you are feeling overwhelmed. I think one way to help cope with all that is to do what Deb did....break it down. What is most important. Make your priority list and cross things off as you deal with them.

I'm assuming the fluids are to help keep the ketones at bay until the BG comes down. Her renal values are not to the point of requiring fluids (usually creat around 3.5 would be when you would start fluids but ECID). Here is our video on How to Give Subcutaneous Fluids to Your Cat at Home. Stay calm, make it a bonding time. Get the vet to give you smaller (21g) needles until you can order them.

Decide what you want to feed her and start moving her to that. The Iams Max Cal Plus has 9% calories from carbs, is high calorie, and has less than 200 mg P/200 kcal. It might be a little high in carbs but its better than dry DM and it might help with the higher dose of insulin for a bit. More important, it has alot of calories.

Don't stress over the UTI....just give her the clavamox. Hopefully she will be like Gracie who took clavamox for three months with no issues. I used the pills, though, not the drops.

Stick with the dose but just monitor and take her dose down as the insulin kicks back in and the food change occurs. You'll know when to do it.

And De is right...take time for you. You've recuperated her before and she did great. You can do it again......tomorrow will look better and we will be here for you.
 
Hi Bern, like Amy said we are all here for you. You are not alone. It can all be so overwhelming... but it will get better. Try to get some refreshing sleep. In the morning you will find your strength again. You're a great momma bean to Tashie. Lots of (((hugs))) :YMHUG:

I just watched Marje's video, and it's excellent! Wish I had seen this back when I had 2 other kitties who had CKD and were on fluids. Lots of great tips.
 
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