8/14 Stu AMPS 325, +6 323, PMPS 369, +4 308

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Ella & Rusty & Stu(GA)

Ella & Rusty & Stu(GA)

Member Since 2010
yesterday: viewtopic.php?p=221758#p221758]

Good Caturday, Everyone,

Stu's bg is a lot lower than in recent days (athough still pink). However, it may actually have been lower than 325 but for the fact that I decided to give him his Methimazole (1/4 of a 5 mg pill: impossible!) before his shot. Of course he struggled mightily and we lost a few before we finally got one into him (I think it went down). There has got to be a better way of doing this! Anyway. breakfast installments 1 &2 have been eaten (with hard-boiled egg-white mixed in to act as a phosphorus binder), indoor and outdoor literboxes have received their contributions (lots of pee), a few moths have been chased across the grass, and Mr. Cat is now napping in my porch chair. He can't wait to see all his friends today and to enjoy that fantastic dinner that Raja is cooking for him (with the help of the rest of the kitchen crew).
Off now to the farmers' market. Everyone have a good day, and stay cool! Thank you all again for your support.

Ella & Stu
 
Re: 8/14 Stu AMPS 325

Stu! Buddy! I am on my way... pots and pans and salmon and eggs in tow.... We are all so excited to cook for you today. hey - we have Milo's party today too - we will a very busy kitchen crew. What fun! You bean says you got breffis with egg - was it good? See you soon! ~~ Mannie

Have a great day today Ella! Oh good luck with the pills... what a hassle that can be. Hopefully Stu will get better with the whole thing. Isn't it fun to make those tiny pills even smaller? :roll:
 
Re: 8/14 Stu AMPS 325, +2.5 344

Yeah, Mannie, the crew will be busy today. Milo is a hunter and so we're going to make a big mouse stew for his party. He'll help us catch the mice. See ya later.

Stu

Hi again, Stu is going the wrong way at +2.5. I guess the pill episode took its toll!

Ella
 
Re: 8/14 Stu AMPS 325, +2.5 344

Krys introduced us to allergy formula (duck & pea) Pill Pockets. There's no corn syrup in them so they are OK for a diabetic. You might want to track them down. Gabby loves them. With her recent dental, it's what I've given her as a treat.
 
Re: 8/14 Stu AMPS 325, +2.5 344

Stu, Tray says his stinky brother is a great hunter and will catch some mice for Milo's stew.
Have fun at the market, I love them.
 
Re: 8/14 Stu AMPS 325, +2.5 344

Glad the WCR is good on Stu--It was great to hear you in such good spirits--We all know that Stu will be well & better under the care of his devoted beans!--Meanwhile, The parties are being planned & the excitement is rising-Cats in a tizzy :dizcat :dizcat :dizcat :dizcat
Hope you have a beautiful day!! Bug Hugs!! :mrgreen:

Stu Man--We are getting ready for 2 parties tonite!!-What a time it will be!! Milo's OTj & a spoil our Stu party cause we wuv you!
Get ready for fun tonite--Maybe we could get in a quick Surf in the blue waves?? Big Hugs--I'm cooking something special for you--Later gator!!Moonie :mrgreen:
 
Re: 8/14 Stu AMPS 325, +2.5 344, +4 370!!

Ella & Stu said:
However, it may actually have been lower than 325 but for the fact that I decided to give him his Methimazole (1/4 of a 5 mg pill: impossible!) before his shot. Of course he struggled mightily and we lost a few before we finally got one into him (I think it went down). There has got to be a better way of doing this!
Click to expand...
It's available in transdermal form too. That's what Linda's Bear uses (still uses, I think?)

Anyway. breakfast installments 1 &2 have been eaten (with hard-boiled egg-white mixed in to act as a phosphorus binder), ...
Click to expand...
Where'd you get that info, egg white as phos binder??
 
Re: 8/14 Stu AMPS 325, +2.5 344, +4 370!!

I'm sorry for the problems with the pills. I would suggest sticking the tiny pill in a pill pocket or a small amount of cheese. Blackie is easy to pill, but tiny pills are more difficult because you don't know if it really got in there and swallowed.

Blackie will come help to cook too if he can just get out of his high numbers - 500's this morning.

I hope you have a good day Ella.
 
Re: 8/14 Stu AMPS 325, +2.5 344, +4 370!!

WCF and Meowzi said:
Ella & Stu said:
However, it may actually have been lower than 325 but for the fact that I decided to give him his Methimazole (1/4 of a 5 mg pill: impossible!) before his shot. Of course he struggled mightily and we lost a few before we finally got one into him (I think it went down). There has got to be a better way of doing this!
Click to expand...
It's available in transdermal form too. That's what Linda's Bear uses (still uses, I think?)

Anyway. breakfast installments 1 &2 have been eaten (with hard-boiled egg-white mixed in to act as a phosphorus binder), ...
Click to expand...
Where'd you get that info, egg white as phos binder??
Click to expand...

Yes, I use transdermal methimazole for Bear. It does allow for fine tuning of the dosage if needed. Possible drawbacks are (1) the inner ear is a bit sticky when it comes to handling for BG testing (2) there is potential for skin irritation, so it is recommended to alternate ears and (3) transdermal methimazole may not be as well absorbed as oral methimazole. Advantages are,as noted, flexibility with dosing and possibly less chance of gastric side effects (which is why we use it).

I Googled the egg white thing, and sure enough it comes up with links to use of egg whites to reduce phosphorus. It appears, however, that the egg is not a binder per se, but it is a source of protein which is low in phosphorus, and if used as a substitute for meat, results in a lower dietary intake of phosphorus. There was something about eggshells as a phosphorus binder - probably due to their calcium content? It sounds like Dr. Hodgkins mentions it in her writings.
 
Re: 8/14 Stu AMPS 325, +2.5 344, +4 370!!

ugh ... I feel for you on the pilling .. twix would never allow us to pill her ... only one time did a vet get a pill all the way down into twix, and before we knew it, she foamed the whole darn pill right back up, IN TACT!

I hope that stu enjoys himself at the party tonight ... he certainly deserves it ...
 
Re: 8/14 Stu AMPS 325, +2.5 344, +4 370!!

Hi Ella and Stu. We're just visiting to say "Hello" :smile:
Hope you had a good shopping trip at farmer's market. Checkers hopes to make the party tonight if his tummy feels better.
Ella, it's good to hear you sounding upbeat. :-D
 
Re: 8/14 Stu AMPS 325, +2.5 344, +4 370!!

Hi Linda and WCF,
Yes, I got the info. on egg whites from Dr. Hodgkin's book (which just arrived yesterday). I was excited to read it, but it's clear that I mis-remembered what she wrote! She says the following:
". . . Phosphate binders that can be added to the cat's regular, palatable, high-protein diet (wet form only) are readily available and effectively remove substantial amounts of the dietary phosphorus from the food. Another strategy that works well is the addition of chopped, cooked egg white to the patient's wet diet. Egg white is high in top-quality protein but contains no phosphate, so it effectively 'dilutes' the phosphorus in the food. This strategy allows the cat to have the protein building blocks of repair and energy production available in abundance, while reducing the intake of a nutrient that may be harmful to the patient. This is truly the best of both worlds." Elizabeth Hodgkins, Your Cat (paperback ed., New York, 2007), p. 217.

I was going to ask Stu's vet about getting the transdermal gel, but then I read that it takes a few weeks longer for it to begin working and since we are more-or-less on a "trial" to see if Stu will be a candidate for I-131, we decided to go with the pills. What I didn't consider were the differences in recommended dosage.

Thanks Sienne and Ele for the tips on how to get the pill into the cat! I'll have to order the special allergy pill pockets online, but we have lots of cheese here, so I'm going to try that!

Stu's bg is on the rise this A.M.--NOT his usual pattern. Is this part of a bounce?? Back later with a +6.

Ella & Stu
 
Re: 8/14 Stu AMPS 325, +2.5 344, +4 370!!

I couldn't find those pill pockets that Sienne mentioned...but I did use cheese...oh, and I tried a pill thingy with no success.
the cheese was the only way I could pill Raja....hope you can figure a way to get this into him. Sounds as if for now, you want the immediacy of the pills. sigh. Well, how about some company today?
Raja is getting everything together and she and Shadow are singing as they work. They can't wait to see Stu and everyone. And they are super excited about the foot washing fountain! They never saw one of those and neither have I! I have heard of drinking fountains, but not one for their paws. But Stu told them all about it and they are very excited to try it out! They will be there shortly Ella....
hope they will behave themselves!
 
Re: 8/14 Stu AMPS 325, +2.5 344, +4 370!!

stu ~ buddy i feel for ya on the pill thing ohmygod_smile my brother scooter loved his pill confused_cat he said something about it was his feel good pill confused_cat
if it's ok can i bring a special treat for you today? it's a hummingbird gelato, my very own receipe :-D c~ ya stu bcatrun_gif
 
Re: 8/14 Stu AMPS 325, +2.5 344, +4 370!!

Stu, you don't need to get so excited about the krew coming over. Get you BG back down so you'll have more fun with them. You know you feel better when you are lower.
Stu, we're all ready and can't wait to see you. I did a big drop, but didn't get to scuba levels. Can you give me some lessons? -- Tess
 
Re: 8/14 Stu AMPS 325, +2.5 344, +4 370!!, +6 323

No diving lessons today, guys! And my fountain is a drinking fountain, but I like to wash my feet in it, too. I'm surfing PINK. Anyone can join me if you dare!! See you all later. I'm really excited about the parties. Don't forget that we have to catch some mice for Milo's stew.

Stu
 
Re: 8/14 Stu AMPS 325, +2.5 344, +4 370!!, +6 323

Stu:
I have all the ingredients for Milo's stew too and I don't want you stressing about anything...
You can lead in the mouse hunt for sure, but you are not going to be working today in the kitchen!
You are going to see what it's like on the outside, laughing and partying while others do the cooking!
See you very soon!
Love
Raja
 
Re: 8/14 Stu AMPS 325, +2.5 344, +4 370!!

Ella & Stu said:
Hi Linda and WCF,
Yes, I got the info. on egg whites from Dr. Hodgkin's book (which just arrived yesterday). I was excited to read it, but it's clear that I mis-remembered what she wrote! She says the following:
". . . Phosphate binders that can be added to the cat's regular, palatable, high-protein diet (wet form only) are readily available and effectively remove substantial amounts of the dietary phosphorus from the food. Another strategy that works well is the addition of chopped, cooked egg white to the patient's wet diet. Egg white is high in top-quality protein but contains no phosphate, so it effectively 'dilutes' the phosphorus in the food. This strategy allows the cat to have the protein building blocks of repair and energy production available in abundance, while reducing the intake of a nutrient that may be harmful to the patient. This is truly the best of both worlds." Elizabeth Hodgkins, Your Cat (paperback ed., New York, 2007), p. 217.
Click to expand...
Glad you clarified that. Egg whites as a phosphorus binder is one piece of misinformation that I see crop up every now and then, and it really gets my goat.

Cooked egg white is indeed an excellent source of low-phos protein, and may have a place in a CKD kitty's diet, if kitty will eat it. But if someone mistakenly uses egg whites as a phos binder (and there seems to be some who do, you're not the first I've seen confused by this), she is playing with fire, because it does not bind the other dietary phosphorus (from non-egg white origins) that still has to be reduced or eliminated from kitty's system. This can get extremely dangerous if a kitty's phosphorus level is high and needs to come down. The bean thinks she's achieving it with egg whites - she may be, to the extent she's substituting the egg white for another protein - but if she's not reducing another higher-phos protein, and is instead just tossing cooked egg whites on top of the other protein, then all she's likely doing is generating a false sense of security, with potentially dire consequences for kitty.

I am especially particular about this because phosphorus is considered Public Enemy No. 1 for CKD kitties, and this is a misstep that can so easily be avoided.

Linda and Bear Man said:
It appears, however, that the egg is not a binder per se, but it is a source of protein which is low in phosphorus, and if used as a substitute for meat, results in a lower dietary intake of phosphorus. There was something about eggshells as a phosphorus binder - probably due to their calcium content? It sounds like Dr. Hodgkins mentions it in her writings.
Click to expand...
Correct, substituting cooked egg white for another protein source will likely result in lower total dietary intake of phosphorus just by virtue of egg white's ultra-low phosphorus content. Another approach I've seen is supplementing cooked egg white, without reducing other protein, in situations where there has been too much lean muscle loss. But a good phos binder is sometimes used alongside in this second approach.

BTW, calcium-based binders (like epakitin) are generally regarded as less effective phos binders than aluminium-based binders. There is also the potential for problem with the calcium-phosphorus balance.

*steps off my soapbox* :razz:
 
Re: 8/14 Stu AMPS 325, +2.5 344, +4 370!!, +6 323

WOW - another day where I learn so many things in your condo. Such a wealth of information. All of you are so amazing - I alone thank you for sharing it all.

I hope Stu can bring down these pinks. It just is so unlike his normal range of numbers. Mannie, sure, Stu, no. Good luck Ella!

Hey Stu! I'm with Raja! You sit, we cook. Mouse hunting is OK - but no cooking. We want to take care of you, after all you have done for us. I hope we can measure up. See you soon buddy! ~~ Mannie
 
Re: 8/14 Stu AMPS 325, +2.5 344, +4 370!!, +6 323

Hey Stu, we do seem to like that pink color, don't we? I hope you all have fun at the party tonite. All your friends will bring fudz that you like, and you wont have to do a thing.
I won't make the party this time, as I dont feel so good , but I will be thinking of you.
Your friend Checkers
 
Re: 8/14 Stu AMPS 325, +2.5 344, +4 370!!, +6 323, PMPS 369

What great info. today! WCF, can you tell me where I can find a list of phosphorus binders and whether they are calcium based or aluminum based? I guess by now you have discovered that I am a total idiot when it comes to medical issues and medications. My vet hasn't mentioned the phosphorus connection. But I intend to bring it up and I would like to mention some particulars.

Thanks,

Ella

ps: bg at PMPS: 369!!! I gave him a fat 1 unit
 
Re: 8/14 Stu AMPS 325, +2.5 344, +4 370!!, +6 323, PMPS 369

Ele have you tried crushing the pill and hiding it in food/or tuna something he would eat it in. I have a young aby here I have been treating for vomiting that I cannot pill and I can pill just about any cat but she is impossible so everything I give her I have to hide in her food. Just a thought hope Stu keeps feeling better
 
Re: 8/14 Stu AMPS 325, +2.5 344, +4 370!!, +6 323, PMPS 369

I'm learning things, again. I love Lantus Land.

Now come down from pink, Stu!
 
Re: 8/14 Stu AMPS 325, +2.5 344, +4 370!!, +6 323, PMPS 369

Ella...I have the feeling your vet will learn a LOT from you. I would like to be a fly on the wall when you talk with him. giggle giggle!
There is so much that you have been hit with. You are not a total idiot when it comes to medial issues missy!!! But these particular issues are new to you...and to most of us Thankfully, there are people here who have been through this and they know the ropes. Egg whites might be a good substitution for that pumpkin in the Feline Future mix...your head must be exploding with all the things you are reading and learning about!
Shadow is keeping Stu company on the pink floor so far today...hope they are behaving over there....

I wish there was something I could do but i don't know anything about these issues either
Ella...but I ma thinking of you and Stu all the time and sending healing vines and hugs... :YMHUG:
 
Re: 8/14 Stu AMPS 325, +2.5 344, +4 370!!, +6 323, PMPS 369

Until WCF stops by ...

This site (my CRF bible) has a section on phosphorus binders:

http://www.felinecrf.org/treatments.htm#binder_types

There are links within the article that you can click on that lead to suppliers. I bought aluminum hydroxide powder from Thriving Pets. He has cut off his Canadian customers now :evil: , but before he did that I was reasonably happy with the product.
 
Re: 8/14 Stu AMPS 325, +2.5 344, +4 370!!, +6 323, PMPS 369

Ella,

I feel for you to with the pilling. I am going through the same thing with Sara. In the begining she took it in a treat but not anymore. So now I have to pill her. It must have taken me like 5 trys tonight, she kept spitting it out. I suprised she did'nt bite me. I'm going to look up pill pockets on line.

Sara is on her way over to the party in honor of their man Stu. Shes looking forward to mouse hunting. Though shes never caught or chased one in her life. She wants to see what this is all about.

She'll be wearing her teal shoralls with a lightweight white sweatshirt tied at the neck. She heard it might be chilly tonight so she wanted to come prepared. Also she wants to help everyone [except Stu] :-D out in the kitchen. Sounds like they are going to have a blast, as always.


Rock on kitties!
 
Re: 8/14 Stu AMPS 325, +2.5 344, +4 370!!, +6 323, PMPS 369

Hi Ella
Stopping by to see how yo guts were doing.
Max promised he would help Stu in the kitchen since he does not need to
bodyguard tonight at the party.
Where is elly & Logan???

I hope the pilling gets easier. I rub the capsule in some butter, pop it into Max's mouth and
follow with from a syringe!!!
 
Re: 8/14 Stu AMPS 325, +2.5 344, +4 370!!, +6 323, PMPS 369

Hi Ella - I hope all is well, and that the pilling gets easier. Poor Stu. Maybe the food thing will work? Though I have had cats that eat the food and leave the pill - perhaps the powder idea would work. I wish you luck.

I am still amazed at how much I am trying to absorb in your condos now. I have so many new bookmarks for references. All good stuff - all things that I wish I had known a few years back with a kitty I lost to metacam and renal failure. so many wishes. well - I wish you luck with it all. And you are NOT a medical idiot - far from it. I too want to be a fly on the wall of your vets office when you visit him. He sounds like he will be receptive - I hope so!

have a great night! I hope Stu can exit the pink floor.... Come on Stu - you can do it - though I hate to admit it, Mannie is grateful for the company when he is there.
 
Re: 8/14 Stu AMPS 325, +2.5 344, +4 370!!, +6 323, PMPS 369

Hi Ella,

I like this site: Scooter's Mail Order Supplies for CRF If you look on the right side, there's a link to phosphorus binders; it explains which are aluminium-based and which are calcium-based, and also a couple others I think. Bookmark the site, it is useful for more than phos binders.

I would NOT start phos binders without checking Stu's phos level first. Long-term use of binders isn't without risk. He's what - 13 years old? You could be looking at years and years of binder use; I'd hold off until he really needs it.

You have a couple of weeks before you run his b/w again. I'd take this time to try to switch him to a lower-phos food (Janet & Binky's chart, below 250 mg phos per 100 calories - below 200 mg is preferrable, but there aren't many choices that fall under that) and see the effect on his phos level. If it stays within a good range, you can stick to the diet and monitor progression with periodic checks.
 
Re: 8/14 Stu AMPS 325, +2.5 344, +4 370!!, +6 323, PMPS 369

Hi Ella,
Been thinking about you all week, stopping by and peeking to see how you are doing. Im so impressed with how graceful you are handling all this. It is truley a key to Stu's happiness. I always had to remind myself when something 'new' arose with Latte that SHE didnt know or take it as hard as I did. She just knew it was another day and she felt how she felt (sometimes good, sometimes not). So, often times these things end up being a lot more stressful for us than the cats, kwim?

Im glad you have such a great pool of knowledge. Never had to deal with the hyperthyroidism, so Im clueless, other than knowing it has great influence on the kidneys. And now I learn on the diabetes, too! Im pleased to hear you are going to do the tx for the hyper t. Amy's winston (who was my main home base support) had her cat go through it. The girl is just a doll. In fact I just spent an hour with her cuddling on my lap earlier this evening- Laya the cat, not amy! :lol: . :mrgreen:

Please know Im thinking of you guys often. Take some breaks for yourself, k???
And when/if you need binder I have some in a box waiting to be addressed to you!
 
Re: 8/14 Stu AMPS 325, +2.5 344, +4 370!!, +6 323, PMPS 369

Stu-
My bean's been away from here so I didn't even know about the parties! I'm not sure if she will let me come or not, 'cause it's late and I'm getting ready to go diving. I'll try to get out, okay? But if I can't make it, don't think it's because I don't love you! :-D
<3, Buzz
 
Hi Everyone! Thanks so much for all the great information, and the web links, and the tips on pilling, and your concern for Stu. It's what keeps DH and me going! Stu hasn't had his phosphorus level checked yet. It wasn't one of the things the vet tested for. So I don't know what it is and won't be able to have a baseline until the next bloodwork, on Aug. 25th.
Stu had a good day with the exception of producing way too much urine and surfing PINK all day. We spent quality time outside. He played and drank in his fountain. He napped and lounged. He had good appetite. Tomorrow we're going to try to give the pill piece in cheese. The vet said it should be given on an empty stomach, but then he said that wasn't too crucial since Stu as a diabetic had to eat. As long as I get it down him I'm not going to worry about whether or not he takes it with food.

As I write the kitties are still partying. What a great crowd of kitties! They had the delicious dinner that Raja researched and planned and all the kitchen crew helped cook. Then they sat around on the porch and talked about the things they like to talk about. Shadow said that the Persius Meteor Shower is happening this week, so they all went out to see if they could see it. Then they packed up the makings for the mouse stew for Milo's OTJ party and caught a moonbeam up to Canada to hunt the main ingredient: fresh mice. They all got back here a little while ago to finish up Raja's food and have a few niptinis. Mannie, Tess and Moonie decided to boil up some eggs so that they could all try egg whites (as a high-protein, non phosphorus food--not a binder). Stu said they could put the chopped whites in with the chicken. Blackie liked that idea. Stu was thrilled that his friends came over to cook such a delicious meal for him. He's so proud of them all and so happy to have so many good friends here in Lantus Land.

Time to turn in for the beans. Party on, kitties, and keep your bg low!!

Ella

Hey guys! You kitties are THE BEST!! THANK YOU for this great meal! and for the great evening!

Stu
 
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