8/12 Boomer AMPS 403 +3 277 +6 306 PMPS 304 +3 243

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Judy and Boomer

Judy and Boomer

Member Since 2014
Yesterday
Meltdown time. AMPS 403 :mad: shooting 1.5u

Yesterday Boomer had a normal cycle again although obviously still too high and and I was surprised to see a higher +3 last night so he had started yet another bounce from the blue yesterday. At least the bounces aren't lasting several cycles anymore (anti jinx). I believe he needs an increase (even though he had a 49 on this dose several cycles ago) but I would really like to see the bouncing stop so that I could see what he actually can do on 1.5u before increasing.

Boomer ate all of his overnight fuds; Allen ate all of his overnight fuds as well!

And after stalking Boomer for days now trying to do a ketone test, I caught him in the box a few minutes ago. Ketones negative.

We never got any storms last night; not even a drop of rain, despite the storm warnings that were out. There was a tornado a couple of hours away from us. Today is beautiful and I hope to get out for a while but I really need to get some editing done; my plan was to do a lot of it yesterday and for some reason everyone decided they needed sessions booked yesterday and that's pretty much what I did all day! 7 sessions booked, one inquiry which I haven't heard back about, and one more session request after I went to bed. YAY! :smuggrin:
 
I just choked on my coffee Boomer :banghead::banghead: Not sure it's the blue making him bounce or the drops from preshot to +3 and again from +3 to +6. :eek: Boomer was always such a flat cat that I think he's bouncing off the drops. Think and increase is in order unless he does something crazy today.
 
Doodles & Karen said:
I just choked on my coffee Boomer :banghead::banghead: Not sure it's the blue making him bounce or the drops from preshot to +3 and again from +3 to +6. :eek: Boomer was always such a flat cat that I think he's bouncing off the drops. Think and increase is in order unless he does something crazy today.
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Yeah the drops have been huge! I'm just afraid that a larger dose will mean a larger drop instead of a flatter cycle o_O It's 45 minutes until +3 so I'll see whether he's continuing to bounce today.
 
Doodles & Karen said:
I'm puzzled Judy. Can your auto-feeder handle more meals? Wonder if you could try feeding a little at +2. +4 & +6 if that will help.
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Well right now he gets PS, +3 +6 +9
I'm actually wondering if I should try some food a bit higher in carbs at PS to see if I can slow the drop. Right now his food is all between 0% and 4.04% carbs with the majority of his meals being chicken pate which is about 2% I believe.
 
Sorry about the yucky start. It can't hurt to try some higher carb food and see if it helps flatten him out. I'm glad the storms missed you. Great on getting so many sessions booked.
 
A humongous drop from 403 to 277 at +3
I don't remember which food I put in his auto feeder for his +3 but I scooped it out (in case it was the 2% chicken) and replaced it with the 4% fowl ball.
 
Judy and Boomer said:
A humongous drop from 403 to 277 at +3
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:banghead::banghead: And not sure when the drop is happening. Is he sliding down from preshot in even intervals or having one huge drop? He doesn't always drop at +3 but I see more times than not. I'd either try higher carb food at preshot or start testing/ giving a snack at +2. Either way stick with it for at least 5-7 days if you decided to try something different.
 
Doodles & Karen said:
:banghead::banghead: And not sure when the drop is happening. Is he sliding down from preshot in even intervals or having one huge drop? He doesn't always drop at +3 but I see more times than not. I'd either try higher carb food at preshot or start testing/ giving a snack at +2. Either way stick with it for at least 5-7 days if you decided to try something different.
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Tomorrow I'll try to remember to test at +2; normally at +2 he's close to his PS and then starts to work it between +2 and +3
 
Boomer...that was a nasty pink teaser this morning! But man, he is coming down...breaking those bounces faster. Hopefully that means the bounces will start diminishing!
 
Wonder if it's the insulin carryover kicking in???? If only we knew everything about this horrible disease:arghh::banghead:
just when I think here we go we might kick this FD in the butt his numbers go crazy in the wrong direction.
:bighug::bighug::bighug: could just be pancreas trying to kick in and help????
 
Judy and Boomer said:
What is this @DebG ?
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A full understanding of the following concepts will go a long way in helping you regulate your kitty's blood glucose when using Lantus or Levemir:
  • Carryover - insulin effects lasting past the insulin's official duration
  • Overlap - the period of time when the effect of one insulin shot is diminishing and the next insulin shot is taking effect
  • Insulin Depot - a "spare tank" of insulin, which has yet to be used by the body
  • LANTUS & LEVEMIR: WHAT IS THE INSULIN DEPOT?
  • Bouncing - Bouncing is simply a natural reaction to what the cat's system perceives as a BG value that is "too low". "Too low" is relative. If a cat is used to BGs in the 200's, 300's, or higher for a long time, then even a BG that drops to 150 can trigger a "bounce". Bouncing can also be triggered if the blood glucose drops too low and/or too fast.The pancreas, then the liver, release glucogon, glycogen and counter-regulatory hormones. The end result is a dumping of "sugar" into the bloodstream to save the cat from going hypoglycemic from a perceived low. The action is often referred to as "liver panic" or "panicky liver". *Usually*, a bounce will clear kitty's system within 3 days (6 cycles).
 
+6 306
Not what has normally been happening between +3 and +6 but he dropped so very much between AMPS and +3 that perhaps the bounce is already starting?
 
Yikes,, Boomer, what's up with all the pink??? :arghh:

I hope that Dr. Larry will have some more information on the dental surgeons next week (you're waiting for a quote, right?). That seems like the most logical explanation for these numbers, especially if there's an infected root.
 
FWIW, here's my thoughts:

  • This bouncing is a new ballgame with Boomer so you can't test him like you used to when he was in blues and greens...you have to up the ante here meaning test at different times and manage his curve more aggressively (that doesn't mean high carb food ;)).
  • IMHO, he needs more insulin; the night he dropped to 49, he gave you a really clear signal that he was headed down. With the 182, it was time to test sooner and manage the curve to keep the lows at bay. (See below on my thoughts about when you might want to increase the dose.)
  • When he takes a fast drop like he has been, he's going to have a hard bounce; it's been my observation that often the dives cause worse bounces than the lower numbers.
I think you can approach this two different ways depending on whether you want to be conservative or not.

Conservative approach
  • Leave the dose
  • Test at PS, +1, +2, +3 and find where he is dropping
  • Manage the drop with food (e.g. try his LC fed in a different pattern, try bigger helpings, maybe even a little lower MC if it's a big drop)
  • Flatten the curve so the nadirs are higher and, hopefully, the diving stops and thus the bouncing minimizes
  • Raise the dose if nadirs are blue or more (I'm pretty confident he will need more insulin)
Less conservative approach
  • Raise the dose to 1.75u
  • Test at PS, +1,+2, +3
  • Manage the curve with a higher LC food such as 9/10% or even a little 11-12% if need be
  • Flatten the curve but because of the increased insulin, hopefully the nadirs will be a little lower than the above approach
I've done both methods and the latter can certainly more intensive in terms of testing and feeding. I have a feeling you might prefer the former approach (conservative) but you have to catch where he's dropping and get it stopped. Once you've got that figured out and he's flattened some, you don't have to keep testing that often because you'll know when he's likely to drop and you'll need more food or maybe a little higher low carb food, etc.

Remember that this is an experiment and so you have to tweak as you go but as long as you continue to test as you are and not catch the drops....the longer he will keep this up.

Thoughts?

Note: this advice is for Boomer and Judy only!!!! Boomer is a long term diabetic and Judy is an experienced caregiver.
 
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DebG said:
Wonder if it's the insulin carryover kicking in???? If only we knew everything about this horrible disease:arghh::banghead:
just when I think here we go we might kick this FD in the butt his numbers go crazy in the wrong direction.
:bighug::bighug::bighug: could just be pancreas trying to kick in and help????
Click to expand...
Good thinking but I don't see him getting any carryover or overlap.
 
Marje and Gracie said:
FWIW, here's my thoughts:

  • This bouncing is a new ballgame with Boomer so you can't test him like you used to when he was in blues and greens...you have to up the ante here meaning test at different times and manage his curve more aggressively (that doesn't mean high carb food ;)).
  • IMHO, he needs more insulin; the night he dropped to 49, he gave you a really clear signal that he was headed down. With the 182, it was time to test sooner and manage the curve to keep the at bay. See below on my thoughts about when you might want to increase the dose.
  • When he takes a fast drop like he has been, he's going to have a hard bounce; it's been my observation that often the dives cause worse bounces than the lower numbers.
I think you can approach this two different ways depending on whether you want to be conservative or not.

Conservative approach
  • Leave the dose
  • Test at PS, +1, +2, +3 and find where he is dropping
  • Manage the drop with food (e.g. try his LC fed in a different pattern, try bigger helpings, maybe even a little lower MC if it's a big drop)
  • Flatten the curve so the nadirs are higher and, hopefully, the diving stops and thus the bouncing minimizes
  • Raise the dose if nadirs are blue or more (I'm pretty confident he will need more insulin)
Less conservative approach
  • Raise the dose to 1.75u
  • Test at PS, +1,+2, +3
  • Manage the curve with a higher LC food such as 9/10% or even a little 11-12% if need be
  • Flatten the curve but because of the increased insulin, hopefully the nadirs will be a little lower than the above approach
I've done both methods and the latter can certainly more intensive in terms of testing and feeding. I have a feeling you might prefer the former approach (conservative) but you have to catch where he's dropping and get it stopped. Once you've got that figured out and he's flattened some, you don't have to keep testing that often because you'll know when he's likely to drop and you'll need more food or maybe a little higher low carb food, etc.

Remember that this is an experiment and so you have to tweak as you go but as long as you continue to test as you are and not catch the drops....the longer he will keep this up.

Thoughts?

Note: this advice is for Boomer and Judy only!!!! Boomer is a long term diabetic and Judy is an experienced caregiver.
Click to expand...

Thanks Marje. Yes, Boomer isn't being very Boomer-like these days and just when I think I have it figured out, he does something different. Today, for example, he started out at 403, dropped to 277 at +3, but then went up to 306 at +6 (instead of dropping more). The bounces aren't lasting nearly as long as they were so I had hoped his cycles were starting to settle down. My plan for tomorrow was basically what you outlined in the conservative approach but now it will have to wait until Monday (3 hour photo session starting at +2). Tomorrow I will test at +1.5 and I guess that will tell me whether, on Monday, I have to test at +1 or can wait til +2.
 
Judy and Boomer said:
Thanks Marje. Yes, Boomer isn't being very Boomer-like these days and just when I think I have it figured out, he does something different. Today, for example, he started out at 403, dropped to 277 at +3, but then went up to 306 at +6 (instead of dropping more). The bounces aren't lasting nearly as long as they were so I had hoped his cycles were starting to settle down. My plan for tomorrow was basically what you outlined in the conservative approach but now it will have to wait until Monday (3 hour photo session starting at +2). Tomorrow I will test at +1.5 and I guess that will tell me whether, on Monday, I have to test at +1 or can wait til +2.
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Cycles can change from cycle to cycle. If he were mine, I'd take a few days, at least, and test at the times I suggested as much as you can. If he drops at +2, don't assume that he's the same every cycle. You need enough data to see if there's a pattern.
 
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