8/11 Stu AMPS 428, +7 91, +9 136, PMPS 253, +4.5 358

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Ella & Rusty & Stu(GA)

Ella & Rusty & Stu(GA)

Member Since 2010
yesterday: viewtopic.php?p=219089#p219089

Good Morning Everyone,

Stu's AMPS is as high as I've ever seen it. Cassandra suggested that the hyperthyroid condition speeds everything up and produces big spikes and drops, and that Stu's insulin needs will increase. Looking at his SS since about August 3rd, the pattern has certainly been huge swings (although since about August 8th he's been pretty high across the cycle). Last night I went back up to 1.00 unit. I guess we'll see what happens today. I'm heading up to Plattsburgh today to get some Merrick Cowboy Cookout, etc. If he likes it (it's Merrick, so I'm sure he will), I will modify my standing order with PetFoodDirect to include it.
WCR: Stu had a good night and ate everything in his automat. Ate with gusto this morning, 2 installments of breakfast so far (By Nature 95% turkey & turkey liver, his favorite food) and had a treat of chicken chunks in water with Greek yogurt. Litterbox has received both contributions (huge amount of pee again). We have been outside to survey the yard and to test the air (warm and humid again).
Today I will call the vet to try to find out what Stu's phosphorus, calcium, and potassium levels are (I hope he has those data). Maybe he'll have the thyroid test results.

Thanks again, everyone, for all your help and support. Back later,

Ella & Stu
 
Re: 8/11 Stu AMPS 428 (dose?)

hey guys .. sorry to see stu at such a high level this morning .. I hope taking him back up to 1.0u will bring him back down ... sounds like you guys have already had a busy morning ... hope that you have an enjoyable afternoon today!!
 
Re: 8/11 Stu AMPS 428 (dose?)

(((Ella))) Wow ~~ those AMPS! Hope someone will be along to check our his SS and talk to you about the dosing....
Just don't know what to say to you...I know nothing about what is going on. But, there are so many people here with wonderful suggestions for you. Isn't this place amazing???!!!
And YOU are amazing too Ella! I am so sorry that this is happening to you guys...but you did catch it right away and you acted on it! Good for YOU!! You are doing all the right things and taking it one step at a time. Stu is a very lucky kitty!
We love you both...hope you have a good day...safe trip for supplies!
Now, we are all going to have to study up too so we can manage making Stu some acceptable delicacies for a change!
Raja is busy looking up things in my cookbook. She said that Stu has been cooling for everyone for so long and now it's time for them to cater to HIM!!! She is going to call Mannie later and talk to him about it too. Tell Stu to relax and follow Mama's orders!
hugs to you all! :YMHUG: :YMHUG:
 
Re: 8/11 Stu AMPS 428 (dose?)

Morning Guys!! Well, STU hope you can go lower with your new dose crease!! You know how much we care about you & want you to be well--
Ella, good going on a food trip for Stu's favorite foods!! He is so worth it-
OK new menus for Stu are being created all over lantus land!! We love our top chef & want him to be well!!
We will keep your spirits up--Luv you both--
Let's see that number go down-OK Stu?? HUGS from Us!! :mrgreen:

Stu Man--heard you arent feeling so well,Well get a handle on it, and come surfing in blue with me & Shadow!!--We are sending you happy healthy vibes today & know you will be good--We will wait for you if you cant surf today--HUGS & we luv you--Moonie
 
Re: 8/11 Stu AMPS 428, +3 244 (dose?)

STU DUDE! Worry not my friend - we all will help you leave the land of the reds and find the lower floors... I have been devouring my beans cookbooks - looking for all kinds of things that are Stu friendly. Now I am really hungry... So - feel better today OK - We can hang out some while your bean is away, cook new things are that Stu friendly, play cards or something, maybe go for a dip in the lake... See you Soon! ~~ Mannie

Have a safe trip Ella. I am still taken back by how much information you now have to digest, absorb, apply for Stu. It must seem overwhelming... No doubt you will do just fine with it. I wish you luck in all regards. Hope too that your vet has the numbers that you need. Good luck today - one step at a time... aS Roni said - we will all keep your spirits up - and Stu's!
 
Re: 8/11 Stu AMPS 428, +3 244 (dose?)

Ella....on your list of things to ask the vet, you did put down blood pressure, right? As WCF said yesterday, ask if they checked it, if they can check it or if there is a vet locally that can....
WCF and Meowzi said:
Ella & Stu said:
It also looks like there is more bad news on the way: the preliminary results of the Free T4 test came back from the lab and Stu's number was "7.4 (high)" (reference range is 0.8--4.0).
Click to expand...
not that it changes anything significantly, but i think that's a T4 reading you got there. the free T4 ref range is 10 - 50, for Antech.

when you talk to vet, ask if they checked Stu's blood pressure at the last visit? i hope they have the capability to check it - if they don't, ask if there's another local vet they can refer you to that does.
Click to expand...
 
Re: 8/11 Stu AMPS 428, +3 244 (dose?)

Hopefully, once Stu is on thyroid meds, things will level out more. Cassandra is a great resource for multiple medical issues.
 
Re: 8/11 Stu AMPS 428, +3 244 (dose?)

Hi Ella,
I have just been catching up on your condos. Bear Man also is dealing with a lot of the same issues (UTI, hyperthyroid, CRD) and some other ones. You have already received such excellent advice. I am so glad that WCF and Cassandra are helping you. I just wanted to say that I know how overwhelmed you are right now. There are amazing resouces out there to read, which you have already been linked to, and there is a ton of information to absorb. It seems incomprehensible at first, but eventually it all starts to make sense. It is just like how it feels in the beginning of learning about feline diabetes.

You will get into the habit of knowing Stu's latest USG, BUN, creatinine, potassium, phosphorus, calcium, and T4. You will want to monotor blood pressure as well. There are foods out there which will be suitable for both kidney disease and diabetes (not so much for Canadian picky eaters but you will be fine). There are a lot of things you can do to help treat the renal disease, which you will start learning about. I'm glad that Cassandra warned you that treating the hyperthyroid condition may cause a deterioration in the renal values. No one really warned me about that, and I was quite upset to find out about it after the fact.

You are doing an amazing job, and getting up to speed very quickly. This can all be dealt with. I'm sorry this is happening to you and Stu, but the board is behind you and will get you through it.
Linda
 
Re: 8/11 Stu AMPS 428, +3 244 (dose?)

Whew, what a relief to see Stu coming down. Ella, you have so much to absorb to get Stu back on track, but you will do it!
Have a safe trip to Pgh.
Hey Stu, do you see what all your friends are doing for you? They will have their noses in cookbooks all day long. We all love you, buddy
Your friend, Checkers
 
Re: 8/11 Stu AMPS 428, +3 244 (dose?)

Cassandra and Sasha said:
Some vets like to run pre-existing renal kitties that develop Hyper-T a little "hot" (meaning that they keep the T4 and FT4 a little higher than they normally would with a non-renal kitty). I have my own opinions on that.....it really just taxes the kidneys additionally to do that IMHO, but it is not uncommon to hear a vet suggest it.
Click to expand...
Cassandra - running them a little "hot" taxes the heart too, no? Secondary heart problems from unregulated hyper-t is the about the last thing any renal kitty needs, because then it'll be really hard to juggle SQuids.

And Ella, Cassandra is the thyroid guru. I would trust my own kitties to her when it comes to thyroid issues :)

Pat+Raja+Shadow said:
Ella....on your list of things to ask the vet, you did put down blood pressure, right? As WCF said yesterday, ask if they checked it, if they can check it or if there is a vet locally that can....
Click to expand...
Yes, please ask about blood pressure. See http://www.veterinarypartner.com/Conten ... C=0&A=1216:

"In one study, 93% of dogs with chronic renal failure and 61% of cats with chronic renal failure also had systemic hypertension." ... In one study, 87% of cats with untreated hyperthyroidism had systemic hypertension."

Cats can develop secondary heart problems from uncontrolled hypertension as well.
 
Re: 8/11 Stu AMPS 428, +3 244 (dose?)

I'm glad to see that Stu's numbers are coming down. I'm still thinking about you and Stu a lot and I wish I could help. If I remember correctly, the thyroid meds can be givin orally or in a gel that is absorbed through the ear. My MIL's cat used the gel and when we had a CRF/Hyper-T cat several years ago, we used the tablets. Sorry if I'm giving you info you already had. I'm sending healing energies to Stu and comfort to you.
 
Re: 8/11 Stu AMPS 428, +3 244 (dose?)

It's good to see Stu's numbers coming down with the dosecrease already. We are all thinking of you and Stu.
 
Re: 8/11 Stu AMPS 428, +3 244 (dose?)

Hang in there Ella. You are in good hands. Please try not to be too upset. Lots of help and support here. You can do this. I just read yesterday's post. All thoughts, prayers and good vibes your way.
 
Re: 8/11 Stu AMPS 428, +3 244 (dose?), +7 91, +9 136

Hi again, Got back from Plattsburgh with the food and a drinking fountain (Stu was interested in it!). Bg came down nicely. The vet is supposed to call today (I called the office this morning to ask about phosphorus, calcium, potassium, blood pressure. Today is his surgery day, so I might not hear back from him until this evening
Have to go out for a while. Be back later. Thanks to everyone for all the info. and the support.
More later,

Ella
 
Re: 8/11 Stu AMPS 428, +3 244 (dose?), +7 91, +9 136

So glad to see Stu has come down so far today. Hang in there Ella. I know it's hard, but you'll be a pro before you know it!
 
Re: 8/11 Stu AMPS 428, +3 244 (dose?), +7 91, +9 136

Will Ya Look at Stu!!! Just going along giving beautiful numbers!!! So glad at least his bg is good--Nice Blue Mister!!!
Ella, see it's just another day to Stu! We are all pulling for you & I strongly feel Stu will be fine..
Just want to say how much you have done here in lantus land, given support, friendship, & now it is your time to receive it-
Hugs & good health!!
 
Re: 8/11 Stu AMPS 428, +3 244 (dose?), +7 91, +9 136

Oh, yes, Stu!!! A nice blue number for your mamabean....YEA!!!

Ella, Hi, it's me, Spot.....just wanted to let you know that all us kitties in LL are looking out for Stu and making sure he is doing ok. He's such an awesome friend to all of us....cooking for all the parties and he's just so much fun to be around. I'm going to let you in on a little secret.....Stu doesn't know anything except that his mamabean is a little worried about something that she found out at the vets. He told me he is feeling fine and doesn't know what the hoopla is all about. So, please, smile and relax. We all know you will take good care of our buddy!!! Love you, Stu and Ella!!...............Spot
 
Re: 8/11 Stu AMPS 428, +3 244 (dose?), +7 91, +9 136

Nice Stu to see you in the greens again, even if for just one test! YAY!!!!

Hey Ella - it's me Mannie! Spotty is right on target. Stu told me today too that he feels great. And he knows he is so lucky to have you for his mama bean. ~~ Mannie
 
Re: 8/11 Stu AMPS 428, +3 244, +7 91, +9 136, PMPS 253

Hi again, I'm spending the evening reading about I-131 radiation treatment for hyperthyroid cats. Very interesting. But I wonder if diabetic cats can receive this treatment.
Didn't hear from the vet tonight. Will call him again tomorrow morning. On Aug. 25th we are going to repeat all the blood work and by then I will have a lot of questions to ask him. Also, by then Stu will no longer be taking Clavamox (don't know if this is a factor, but it might be).
Stu enjoyed his Merrick Cowboy Cookout this evening. I'll be interested to see if it spikes his bg. It is higher in carbs than what he normally eats and also has veggies and berries in it (but I read somewhere that Dr. Lisa thinks it is the best canned food for diabetic cats). Well, it has lower phosphorus, so that's a factor now. Pee is profuse (made much more noticeable by the clumping litter!).

Back to my reading, but first a question for WCF, Cassandra, or Linda: Which condition (CKD or Hyper-t) is it important to try to control first (or should they be tackled at the same time?)??

Thanks again, everyone. Stu wants his friends to know that he is looking forward to the dishes they come up with!

Ella & Stu

p.s. The owner of the high-end pet-food store in Plattsburgh told me that Innova (EVO) has just been sold to Proctor & Gamble. He was apprehensive, as am I. He said that we might want to keep a close eye on ingredients.
 
Re: 8/11 Stu AMPS 428, +3 244, +7 91, +9 136, PMPS 253

Dear Ella...you are doing such a great job! Please tell Stu we love him and are so happy that he enjoyed his dinner. Raja is frantically trying to find stuff for him to eat....so far, all she can come up with is Duck but she is confused about the side dishes. Stu always has everything planned so beautifully and now she is busy online looking for acceptable stuff.
You are really on this....Stu is a lucky boy to have you! :YMHUG:
(thanks for the Evo news...ugh)

Pretty good AMPS Stu!! :razz:
 
Re: 8/11 Stu AMPS 428, +3 244 (dose?)

Ella, Happy to hear Stu is interested in that fountain! Diabetic kitties can get the I-131 - it's just a matter of finding a place that will test and administer insulin properly. It will be a little more difficult to find an I-131 center that is willing to do the treatment on a kitty with pre-existing renal disease because it can potentially cause a renal crash. If you are interested in it I'd start by contacting as many as you can in your area (I ended up driving 4 hours to the place I had Sasha's done at), and talking to them about their rules and procedures.

WCF and Meowzi said:
Cassandra - running them a little "hot" taxes the heart too, no? Secondary heart problems from unregulated hyper-t is the about the last thing any renal kitty needs, because then it'll be really hard to juggle SQuids.
Click to expand...

I would think so, along with pretty much every other organ/cell in the body. It's known that Hyper-T can elevate liver enzymes as well, so that would be another place you could also potentially see problems by running things "hot". I personally think it is silly to do because the renal values aren't actually improved by doing this - they just look improved. The whole concept never made sense to me.

WCF and Meowzi said:
And Ella, Cassandra is the thyroid guru. I would trust my own kitties to her when it comes to thyroid issues :)
Click to expand...

It's funny seeing guru and my name in the same sentence. :lol: Just read a whole lot and have had a couple of years to soak it all in (sound like someone you know, CF? ;-) :mrgreen: ). Having to "battle" the IM vet and radiologists at the I-131 place probably helped.

And, of course, I forgot to mention last night, but I would also suggest joining the Yahoo Feline Hyper-T Group - lots of great info there too.
 
Re: 8/11 Stu AMPS 428, +3 244, +7 91, +9 136, PMPS 253

Just wanted to offer a hug... lots of good info in this condo.
Hang in there Ela! Glad to hear that Stu likes cowboys! :lol:
 
Re: 8/11 Stu AMPS 428, +3 244, +7 91, +9 136, PMPS 253

Ella & Stu said:
Back to my reading, but first a question for WCF, Cassandra, or Linda: Which condition (CKD or Hyper-t) is it important to try to control first (or should they be tackled at the same time?)
Click to expand...

They both have to be treated. However, with Stu's creatinine being only 2.7 right now, fluids probably aren't necessary (talk to vet and read Tanya's site on that). If a phos binder is needed then you just add that in. Other treatments may be warranted depending on disease progression. As far as the Hyper-T goes, it cannot be left untreated for very long. It's something you need to jump on. If the Free T4 comes back elevated then Tapazole should be started ASAP or the I-131 scheduled (each I-131 center has their own rules on how long they want kitty off Tap before doing treatment). Untreated Hyper-T can cause a myriad of ills.

Also, if you do end up going for the I-131, try and find a center that uses the technetium scan prior to treatment. It will help determine proper dosage and also detect thyroidal cancer if present (very rare).
 
Re: 8/11 Stu AMPS 428, +3 244, +7 91, +9 136, PMPS 253

You have so many peeps to help here-It is so inspiring! Stu is hanging in there with better numbers than this am--I'm thinking he's a little stressed too, or could be picking up yours--Hope tomorrow will be brighter.. :YMHUG: :YMHUG: :YMHUG:

Stu man, I missed ya today--Much searching is being done to find new foods for you!! How about Bison?? Think It could be good?? Those Bison burgers reallyhit the spot--annd what's the deal with cowboys?? Can we make a burger out of them? :lol: :lol: --Hugs Stu boy! Suring tomorrow?? XOXOXO Moonie
 
Re: 8/11 Stu AMPS 428, +3 244, +7 91, +9 136, PMPS 253

Thanks, Cassandra. The vet just called: Stu's T4 was 7.4 (normal is .8 - 4.0); his Free T4 was 90 (normal is 10-50). His Cortisol was 9 (normal is 1 - 4.5). Apparently this Cortisol test makes him a candidate for Cushings Disease, too (Hyperadrenalcortism; which has symptoms like diabetes and has something to do with the pituitary gland).
The vet didn't do the tests for phosphorus, calcium, or potassium but we will do these on Aug. 25th. He will also take his blood pressure then (he has the bp apparatus, but because most animals are stressed when he sees them, he doesn't normally take their bp). And he will do the test for electrolites also on Aug. 25th.
I can pick up the test results in hard copy tomorrow. I will ask then about starting him on Methimazole (Tapazole). If we opt for the I-131 I think we would do it in NY City. The closest center to here (the Adirondack Mountains of Northern NY State) is Albany, about a 4-hour drive. If we go to NYC, we can just stay in our tiny studio apartment there. We'll have to weigh all of the options. Also, I gather that it is very expensive.

Anyway, thanks for all your help. I'll post the new test results tomorrow.

Ella & Stu

P.s. to Roni: yes, we are so lucky to be on this wonderful board.
 
Re: 8/11 Stu AMPS 428, +3 244, +7 91, +9 136, PMPS 253

Angels Prayers and tons of beautiful healing glowing green light come to help Stu with all his problems.Also so his Momma bean and vet will know what is best for him....Hope he feels better soon and Ella you take care ok ~O) .Kath

Stu Hope you feel like surfing soon drop in at my condo anytime goes for everyone ok Trey
 
Re: 8/11 Stu AMPS 428, +3 244, +7 91, +9 136, PMPS 253

wow on all that - i wish you so much luck... as an fyi - the cost for a the I-131, last I heard, in our area was $1000.00, not counting several rounds of BW. I friend just had her cat treated last winter. I did do this on one of mine probably about 6 years ago - cost then was $800.00. hope that helps ????

Yes Stu is unique. We always knew he was special. Mannie is looking forward to seeing Stu tomorrow.

try and have a good evening... no answers or insights tonight from me - you've already got the best on board.
 
Re: 8/11 Stu AMPS 428, +3 244, +7 91, +9 136, PMPS 253

Ella & Stu said:
Thanks, Cassandra. The vet just called: Stu's T4 was 7.4 (normal is .8 - 4.0); his Free T4 was 90 (normal is 10-50). His Cortisol was 9 (normal is 1 - 4.5). Apparently this Cortisol test makes him a candidate for Cushings Disease, too (Hyperadrenalcortism; which has symptoms like diabetes and has something to do with the pituitary gland).
Click to expand...

The cortisol elevation could also just be because of the Hyper-T. I wouldn't worry about Cushing's unless the cortisol is elevated after Stu's T4 levels are normalized.

If given the opportunity to have treatment in that area, I'd probably choose a Hypurrcat facility, founded by Dr. Mark Peterson. He is the original pioneer in the Hyper-T field, after all, and they do have all of the latest technology at their disposal. It is a pricey procedure - Sasha's was $1,100 and I've seen it range from $800 to $1,800 depending on location. However, if you add up the cost of Tapazole for the potential years of treatment plus the bloodwork needed while on Tap, the I-131 is supposed to be the less expensive option. (Tell that to Sasha, lol, who had to be one of the few to develop complications from the I-131 making it the more expensive option for us. :lol: )
 
Re: 8/11 Stu AMPS 428, +3 244, +7 91, +9 136, PMPS 253

I currently have in my hot little hands 'The Acid Base Review for the Mentally Challenged Student' (yes, it really says that!), so I'm just scrolling through this thread very quickly. I'm going to cheat and say agree with everything Cassandra wrote :P

I personally think it is silly to do because the renal values aren't actually improved by doing this - they just look improved.
Click to expand...
Yup. Dead nephrons are dead nephrons. And running things "hot" likely does more harm than good.

It's funny seeing guru and my name in the same sentence. :lol: Just read a whole lot and have had a couple of years to soak it all in (sound like someone you know, CF? ;-) :mrgreen: ). Having to "battle" the IM vet and radiologists at the I-131 place probably helped.
Click to expand...
I have no idea who you're talking about :razz: We've been more fortunate than you, haven't had to battle much.

If given the opportunity to have treatment in that area, I'd probably choose a Hypurrcat facility, founded by Dr. Mark Peterson. He is the original pioneer in the Hyper-T field, after all, and they do have all of the latest technology at their disposal.
Click to expand...
Definitely check out Hypurrcat. That would be my first choice. That's where we were planning to bring Meowzi for a technetium scan, when another crisis (her mammary cancer) changed all plans. His staff were very helpful and informative, and best of all, every kitty in treatment has their own webcam so you can look in on him anytime, night or day. Check them out at http://www.hypurrcat.com/index2.html
 
Thanks guys! I already checked out Hypurrcat (my vet had told me about Dr. Peterson last winter, when we were discussing diabetes; he has attended some of Peterson's lectures). We will call them and ask some questions about Stu's eligibility for such treatment. If it does indeed cure the hyper-T, everything else might fall into place (wishful thinking, but I am wishful right now). In any event, it looks like a good facility.
Stu is back in mid PINK tonight. Maybe a bounce, maybe a food spike from Cowboy Cookout, maybe just the weird swings. See you tomorrow.

THANK YOU, EVERYONE!!

Ella & Stu
 
wishful is good - we all need wishful. I think it is so nice that they have webcams! How wonderful is that? I know the treatment is very expensive, but having had a cat treated for HyperT with the I-131, I highly recommend it. It did cure him, we had no issues afterwards. For us, it was a matter of daily pills/gels vs a onetime adventure. I felt at the time it was the healthy way to go - not to mention the money saved over the course of my kitties life. Good luck with your decision. We all want the best for you, and for Stu.

have a great night. I am back to Mannie, who has decided to go diving, once again....
 
Hi Ella and Stu . I just wanted to pop in and let you know I've been thinking of you. I've never had to deal with hyerT or renal issues but the information you have been given so far is amazing. I know that you are going to get the help you need for Stu and that it will all work out. It will. Hang in there. It's going to be OK.
 
Re: 8/11 Stu AMPS 428, +3 244, +7 91, +9 136, PMPS 253

Ella & Stu said:
His Cortisol was 9 (normal is 1 - 4.5). Apparently this Cortisol test makes him a candidate for Cushings Disease, too (Hyperadrenalcortism; which has symptoms like diabetes and has something to do with the pituitary gland).
Click to expand...

Some cortisol info links that I forgot to add in before:

Cortisol 1

Cortisol 2

Cortisol 3


Nothing wrong at all with wishful thinking! Everything can fall into place once things start getting treated - it happened for us and Sasha is now over 18 years old and happy as a clam. Anything is possible! :smile:

I had another thought tonight while thinking about Stu and these threads. Dr. Hodgkins always said (and also says it in Your Cat) that if you have a kitty with pre-existing renal insufficiency and then a Hyper-T diagnosis that you should just cure the Hyper-T with I-131 and just deal with the renal problems. Couldn't agree with that statement more. It's pretty cool that a total cure is offered for Hyper-T with the I-131. It's one of the only diseases out that that you can complete obliterate it that way. So you can just remove one of the two diseases and then just work with the kidneys, which you'll have to deal with either way.

Hope you and Stu are both getting a good night's sleepus. :-D
 
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