8/11 Harley AMPS 271, +5 95, +11 170, +13 276
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Joanna & Bix (GA)
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Re: 8/11 Harley AMPS 271
Lookin' good!!!
The #s from last night look to me like the 0.75 worked pretty well on the 155. I think there's room for a slightly higher dose, since you didn't see greens (though it's possible he dipped into them after that +4) and the PS this AM is quite a bit higher. But also it worked well I think as a comfort dose - you know now that you can shoot 0.75 on a 150 and go off to work not worried about hypo, and it still got a U-curve, which is good, it's not a "definitely too low" sort of dose.
I'm curious to see what today brings!!! He really seems to be responding better and better to lower doses, which I think means that either his liver was in school and has now graduated, and/or his pancreas is starting to join in the fun.
What's really really useful I think to see, in witnessing his progress, is that you can get improving results with more than one approach to dosing. Personally, I would have been at a higher dose sooner and aiming for more greens and low blues. But even without that approach, and without seeing greens, he is still improving from his time spent in the blue #s, and gradually coming around to the lower doses. I think it's really nice, because it shows (to me at least!), that there isn't one right answer. Both conservative and more aggressive strategies can produce results.
The only thing I've seen that does not seem to work at all, is when they sit in pinks and reds for extended periods, then it seems like conservative strategies don't produce results. But Harley has been fortunate not to get stuck up in higher #s much, good kitty!
Lookin' good!!!
The #s from last night look to me like the 0.75 worked pretty well on the 155. I think there's room for a slightly higher dose, since you didn't see greens (though it's possible he dipped into them after that +4) and the PS this AM is quite a bit higher. But also it worked well I think as a comfort dose - you know now that you can shoot 0.75 on a 150 and go off to work not worried about hypo, and it still got a U-curve, which is good, it's not a "definitely too low" sort of dose.
I'm curious to see what today brings!!! He really seems to be responding better and better to lower doses, which I think means that either his liver was in school and has now graduated, and/or his pancreas is starting to join in the fun.
What's really really useful I think to see, in witnessing his progress, is that you can get improving results with more than one approach to dosing. Personally, I would have been at a higher dose sooner and aiming for more greens and low blues. But even without that approach, and without seeing greens, he is still improving from his time spent in the blue #s, and gradually coming around to the lower doses. I think it's really nice, because it shows (to me at least!), that there isn't one right answer. Both conservative and more aggressive strategies can produce results.
The only thing I've seen that does not seem to work at all, is when they sit in pinks and reds for extended periods, then it seems like conservative strategies don't produce results. But Harley has been fortunate not to get stuck up in higher #s much, good kitty!
Rob & Harley (GA)
Very Active Member
Re: 8/11 Harley AMPS 271, +5 95
+5 95 :mrgreen: Are we going to pay for this tonight?
Thanks Joanna, I've been mixing in some old school thinking (which made alot of sense to me) with the new protocols of the board and a healthy dose of fear of hypo.
I do think he may have dipped his toes into the green pool last night.
I wasn't going to go with the 1.2 this morning but than decided to speed up the process a little since I could get a mid cycle test today.
+5 95 :mrgreen: Are we going to pay for this tonight?
Thanks Joanna, I've been mixing in some old school thinking (which made alot of sense to me) with the new protocols of the board and a healthy dose of fear of hypo.
I do think he may have dipped his toes into the green pool last night.
I wasn't going to go with the 1.2 this morning but than decided to speed up the process a little since I could get a mid cycle test today.
Joanna & Bix (GA)
Very Active Member
Re: 8/11 Harley AMPS 271, +5 95
Yippee skippey!!! I had my (pretend!) money on a green today, since his #s seem to be getting better & better w/o needing a dose increase. I'm hoping you won't pay too much tonight, I'm thinking his liver may be pretty well trained by now, and a high green might not be too much of a shocker? Well, we'll see. I'm not putting any money on any #s for tonight, I just don't know (plus I'm broke anyhow, LOL!). Could be red, could be too low to shoot.
Just in case it isn't clear, I probably wouldn't shoot 1.2 any more on a 150.
I would have before, but his #s are doing better with less insulin, so if it were me I'd probably want to test out a 1u before going higher than that. This is about a 65% drop, right? Or maybe a little higher since it's likely this isn't his actual nadir. So that's the steepest I'd want to go, I'd probably consider trying 1.1 on a PS between 200 & 250, stick with 1.2 over that, and maybe 1u 150 - 200. (or 0.8 if not around to monitor, especially at the 150 end of the range).
The picture with any cat can change so fast, just wanted to mention that. Sometimes I've seen people stick with a dose that worked last week but looks to be too high this week, and then I always kick myself once I realize I didn't update my advice. I think you have the hang of it though, so just keep doing what you are doing, you are making good choices and getting nice results!!!
:RAHCAT :RAHCAT :RAHCAT
Yippee skippey!!! I had my (pretend!) money on a green today, since his #s seem to be getting better & better w/o needing a dose increase. I'm hoping you won't pay too much tonight, I'm thinking his liver may be pretty well trained by now, and a high green might not be too much of a shocker? Well, we'll see. I'm not putting any money on any #s for tonight, I just don't know (plus I'm broke anyhow, LOL!). Could be red, could be too low to shoot.
Just in case it isn't clear, I probably wouldn't shoot 1.2 any more on a 150.
I would have before, but his #s are doing better with less insulin, so if it were me I'd probably want to test out a 1u before going higher than that. This is about a 65% drop, right? Or maybe a little higher since it's likely this isn't his actual nadir. So that's the steepest I'd want to go, I'd probably consider trying 1.1 on a PS between 200 & 250, stick with 1.2 over that, and maybe 1u 150 - 200. (or 0.8 if not around to monitor, especially at the 150 end of the range). The picture with any cat can change so fast, just wanted to mention that. Sometimes I've seen people stick with a dose that worked last week but looks to be too high this week, and then I always kick myself once I realize I didn't update my advice. I think you have the hang of it though, so just keep doing what you are doing, you are making good choices and getting nice results!!!
:RAHCAT :RAHCAT :RAHCAT
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Anonymous
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Re: 8/11 Harley AMPS 271, +5 95
yippee dippee too! green glorious green!
i on the other hand would not shoot 1.2 on anything over 150. but definetly over 200.
but that's only one beans most humble opinion and i defer to my respected collegue joanne's opinion. joanne, will you be up late nites if needed :lol:
anyway hon, we are sooooo getting there!
ETA...OMG this is what i get for not totally reading each post...i thought joanne said shoot 1.2 on 150 :roll: now i see she and i are the same page...so nice when that happens :mrgreen:
yippee dippee too! green glorious green!
i on the other hand would not shoot 1.2 on anything over 150. but definetly over 200.
but that's only one beans most humble opinion and i defer to my respected collegue joanne's opinion. joanne, will you be up late nites if needed :lol:
anyway hon, we are sooooo getting there!
ETA...OMG this is what i get for not totally reading each post...i thought joanne said shoot 1.2 on 150 :roll: now i see she and i are the same page...so nice when that happens :mrgreen:
Peggy and Mickey (GA)
Very Active Member
Re: 8/11 Harley AMPS 271, +5 95
green is good!!
green is good!!
Rob & Harley (GA)
Very Active Member
Re: 8/11 Harley AMPS 271, +5 95, +11 170
Yes, green is good.
+11 170 and tonight is early shot night, so I'm going to hold off, I'll be home about 30 minutes after PMPS, so I'll see where he is then.
I honestly thought I would see a red tonight. Does that mean that he have been seeing some greens along the way that I didn't catch?
Yes, green is good.
+11 170 and tonight is early shot night, so I'm going to hold off, I'll be home about 30 minutes after PMPS, so I'll see where he is then.
I honestly thought I would see a red tonight. Does that mean that he have been seeing some greens along the way that I didn't catch?
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Anonymous
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Re: 8/11 Harley AMPS 271, +5 95, +11 170
maybe yes maybe no, i must admit i do not know!
but heck...you are definetly going in the right direction.
i'm gonna call it.
remission by october.
maybe yes maybe no, i must admit i do not know!
but heck...you are definetly going in the right direction.
i'm gonna call it.
remission by october.
Rob & Harley (GA)
Very Active Member
Re: 8/11 Harley AMPS 271, +5 95, +11 170
Yeah for October Dr. Suess.
I got home 1 hr after PMPS so +13 276 (at least it wasn't red), I shot 1.1u. 1.2u seems to have a little too much oomph for him and it's night time.
Sometimes he has been getting a much longer ride, so that's why I wanted to wait to see if that would happen tonight. It didn't, so what would the difference be between shooting .8 into a 170 vs 1.1 into a 276? How do you think the AMPS would be different?
Yeah for October Dr. Suess.
I got home 1 hr after PMPS so +13 276 (at least it wasn't red), I shot 1.1u. 1.2u seems to have a little too much oomph for him and it's night time.
Sometimes he has been getting a much longer ride, so that's why I wanted to wait to see if that would happen tonight. It didn't, so what would the difference be between shooting .8 into a 170 vs 1.1 into a 276? How do you think the AMPS would be different?
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Anonymous
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Huh??? too complicated, i can not compute..melting dowwwnnnnn.
you are such a sissy. this is a 1.2 shot. your doing what you used to do.............
now i'll go away and not nag.
you are such a sissy. this is a 1.2 shot. your doing what you used to do.............
now i'll go away and not nag.
Rob & Harley (GA)
Very Active Member
Geeeeze, you're going to beat me up over 1 drop? I deserved it more on the .5u swings.
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Anonymous
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:lol: your only allowed so many faux paws before i get at you. yeah it's only 1 drop but you have a history of trending like this. i want to stop it in it's tracks. there was noooooo reason to drop dose. next thing i know you'll shoot .4 at his next red, just to see if it works :lol:
no, just wonding why?
why why why why?
no, just wonding why?
why why why why?
Joanna & Bix (GA)
Very Active Member
LOL Lori... don't mince words or anything, OMG ROTFL. I don't think 1.1 is so bad (at least had it been a +12). I think he'd be fine on 1.2, but Robin, I understand your hesitancy to go for some nice mid-level greens if you can't monitor. I'd call it cautious.
The difference I see is more in the later shot vs. earlier. +13 will probably have a little less oomph than it would at +12, so you may find the morning # a bit higher, but don't let that throw you off. With Bix on a +13 shot I often would raise by 0.1 to compensate for the reduced overlap.
The +11 is debatable whether it makes any difference in dose. For Bix on a +10 I would reduce the dose by 0.1 or 0.2, but on a +11 I would probably stick with the same dose. Which equates to 0.8 for Harley on that PS, since I would have shot 1u at a +12, but makes sense to pare back a hair on a +11 with a lower PS.
The bigger benefit of having shot earlier, at the +11, would be to keep him steadier in lower #s. Now you have the rise and drop again, and a high enough PS and lost overlap that he'll spend a few hours tonight in higher #s, which the earlier shot would probably have avoided. Not a big deal since his #s still aren't too bad, but that's the biggest difference I see in picking whether to shoot sooner or later (once over 150).
As far as the "longer ride" question, what I've learned with Bix is that you generally get better results if you just go ahead with the insulin once they break 150. That's high enough that it's taxing their pancreas to bring #s down from there, and the insulin is helping them to heal. PZI has a reputation for dramatic "poop-out", where they'll just zoom a lot once it wears off. Sometimes they fake you out with a good +12 or even +13, but then an hour later it can be skyhigh. That's one reason to shoot a decent dose on a 150 with PZI - by the time the insulin kicks in, they are probably well above that level, so it's not as scary as it may seem when you are looking just at the PS.
I certainly found it tempting with Bix to reduce doses to "see if his pancreas will do the rest!", but it never helped. So now I've shifted that thinking, and in most cases I think it's better to just give the insulin and not worry about the sputtering pancreas - if/when it's ready to take over, it will.
If it's much before +12 it's good to do a rising # test to be sure they are headed back up - if they are, then for the most part, with PZI at a dose like this, you can figure it's only going up further. If he gets to a 0.2 dose that might change, but the dose is still high enough I think it means his pancreas isn't ready to go it alone just yet. But I think that may be coming, paws crossed! :mrgreen:
The difference I see is more in the later shot vs. earlier. +13 will probably have a little less oomph than it would at +12, so you may find the morning # a bit higher, but don't let that throw you off. With Bix on a +13 shot I often would raise by 0.1 to compensate for the reduced overlap.
The +11 is debatable whether it makes any difference in dose. For Bix on a +10 I would reduce the dose by 0.1 or 0.2, but on a +11 I would probably stick with the same dose. Which equates to 0.8 for Harley on that PS, since I would have shot 1u at a +12, but makes sense to pare back a hair on a +11 with a lower PS.
The bigger benefit of having shot earlier, at the +11, would be to keep him steadier in lower #s. Now you have the rise and drop again, and a high enough PS and lost overlap that he'll spend a few hours tonight in higher #s, which the earlier shot would probably have avoided. Not a big deal since his #s still aren't too bad, but that's the biggest difference I see in picking whether to shoot sooner or later (once over 150).
As far as the "longer ride" question, what I've learned with Bix is that you generally get better results if you just go ahead with the insulin once they break 150. That's high enough that it's taxing their pancreas to bring #s down from there, and the insulin is helping them to heal. PZI has a reputation for dramatic "poop-out", where they'll just zoom a lot once it wears off. Sometimes they fake you out with a good +12 or even +13, but then an hour later it can be skyhigh. That's one reason to shoot a decent dose on a 150 with PZI - by the time the insulin kicks in, they are probably well above that level, so it's not as scary as it may seem when you are looking just at the PS.
I certainly found it tempting with Bix to reduce doses to "see if his pancreas will do the rest!", but it never helped. So now I've shifted that thinking, and in most cases I think it's better to just give the insulin and not worry about the sputtering pancreas - if/when it's ready to take over, it will.
If it's much before +12 it's good to do a rising # test to be sure they are headed back up - if they are, then for the most part, with PZI at a dose like this, you can figure it's only going up further. If he gets to a 0.2 dose that might change, but the dose is still high enough I think it means his pancreas isn't ready to go it alone just yet. But I think that may be coming, paws crossed! :mrgreen:
Joanna & Bix (GA)
Very Active Member
p.s. hoping everything here is in good friendly jabbing ... I know when I was figuring out Bix's dosing and would lower it (yeah, I did the 0.4 "just to see if it MIGHT work" thing), it set me back emotionally (yeah, I'm definitely a sissy, LOL!) when people would criticize my choices. Even when I was wrong, I had to do what seemed right to me, and I support others doing that (unless they have ketones, then all bets are out the window).
Anyhow, I know Lori wants the best for Harley, I guess today Lori you are playing bad cop, right? The Green BG Police says "don't lower that dose!!!" :mrgreen: It can be tough on message boards to read the mood, so Robin hope you are not feeling discouraged.
Anyhow, I know Lori wants the best for Harley, I guess today Lori you are playing bad cop, right? The Green BG Police says "don't lower that dose!!!" :mrgreen: It can be tough on message boards to read the mood, so Robin hope you are not feeling discouraged.
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Anonymous
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iz is vewy vewy srry. iz gitz all :dizcat becuz iz care n somtimz iz even gits angry(2)_cat
iz triez to gitz beter. k?
iz triez to gitz beter. k?
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Anonymous
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i'm thinking (and hoping) robin knows me well enough to know i tease becuase i love. i would'nt talk like that to just anyone you know....
Joanna & Bix (GA)
Very Active Member
Lori, you are so hilarious!!! That's what I figured, just wanted to be sure all is good. 
:YMPEACE:
:YMPEACE:
Rob & Harley (GA)
Very Active Member
Thanks guys, we're all good. No ketones.
I'm counting on you to keep my chicken liver nature at bay with your advise and support.
I'm counting on you to keep my chicken liver nature at bay with your advise and support.
Rob & Harley (GA)
Very Active Member
((((Group hug))))
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