8/1 Tucker- AM skipped shot +30 68

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Chris & Tucker

Chris & Tucker

Member Since 2012
Yesterday-
PMPS 115 (+12) 0.25u
+1 110 Tucker decided to eat his dinner. About 1 1/2 oz of FF
+2 107
+3 86 Tucker ate other 1 1/2 oz of FF
+3.5 113
+4 118
+5 130
+11 120
Good morning all! Ready to start another day.....I hope!
Today I will need to leave the house again at +4 and back at +7.
Tuckers AMPS is 126.
Do I do a .1U or a .25U today?
I assume with it being under 150, we don't shoot this AM?
I'd like to change his shot times to maybe 5AM and PM EST, maybe today is the day?
 
Re: 8/1 Tucker- AMPS 126

Good Morning, Chris!

Again - I formally accept my wet noodle (that what we here in LL hand out or receive when one of us gets carried away in one way or another) for letting my Dosing-Advice-BOS (balls of steel) go into overdrive. :roll: Let's try again:

First off, here is Your Condo from Yesterday. In it, you will see some pre-advice being given regarding today's AM-approach and so on. In it, you'll see Sienne stating that while she likes the conservative dose we recommended to you that morning, which was of course 0.25u, she wants you to remember that we generally do not shoot under 150 unless we're data-ready. You'll see Marjorie pointing out that when one is *NOT* data-ready, it can be safest to skip the shot entirely especially when the cat cannot be monitored very closely. You'll see Jill posting: "It's possible tucker requires only microdoses of insulin to help him along. We could very well find out 0.25u is too high of a dose for him. Depending on how this cycle plays out, you might want to consider skipping the morning shot if you're unable to monitor or shooting only 0.1 unit." (End of quote.) A bit later on, Jill recommends that before you decide on your dose, you consider how closely you can monitor the cycle.

So: How closely can you monitor? Bear in mind that today's AMPS is a good few points below the threshold of 150. That gives you every justification to skip the AM shot if you feel that is safest, depending on how much you will be home. You have the option to (1) SKIP the shot, or (2) Shoot reduced dose of 0.1u as mentioned yesterday, IF you will be able to MONITOR. Given Tucker's seeming extreme sensitivity even to these microdoses, I would not go for the 0.25u again this morning. (I have banished my dosing BOS into the underwear drawer for this morning. :mrgreen:)

So - what do you think?
Jane
 
Re: 8/1 Tucker- AMPS 126

Hi Jane,
Well.... I think I might skip this morning. I have to leave here in about 3 hours, be back in about 6 hrs.
This might give me the chance to switch to a 5AM/PM shooting schedule.
What do you think?
How do I swith my title? Do I put +12, +13, etc?
 
Re: 8/1 Tucker- AMPS 126

Yes, I'd change your title to whatever the 126 was (a +12, I take it?), and add "Skipped Shot" to clarify what your response was. Since you are skipping the shot, I would say it's not absolutely necessary for you to add each BG test into the title. You could post them in your SS and within the thread instead, and add into your title whatever BG test will be your PMPS.

As for switching the shot time. You know that skipping a shot (which is essentially, stalling for an entire cycle, to describe it another way) acts like a reduction. That means that the risks of an overreaction to "shooting earlier" (i.e., pulling the shot time forward from what *would* have been her normal PM shot time) should technically be lowered - remembering, however, that the cumulative nature of Lantus means that effects of any changes to dosing and/or shot time rhythms can take a few cycles to show up... And also I'm not certain when your regular shot time was in terms of AM/PM times: You say you'd like to get to a 5am/pm shot time - but as you know we're all in different timezones, so can you please clarify when your "regular" shot time has been so far?
Jane

ETA I see you already have a (+1) on your SS :smile:
 
Re: 8/1 Tucker- +12 126, skipped shot

An alternative to your current subject line is to note "AMBG 126." AMPS is your pre-shot test. The assumption is that you gave a shot that morning. AMBG is your morning blood glucose test and no shot was given. If you've noticed any cats who are in an OTJ trial, they are no longer getting insulin but we ask people to test at their usual shot time. They note their AM/PMBG numbers. Either way, you communicated what you needed to.

You can move your PM shot time to whenever it's convenient.
 
Re: 8/1 Tucker- +12 126, skipped shot

Sorry about the lack of time info, I was refering to hopefully doing a shooting time of 5AM/PM EST... his current schedule is 6:45AM/PM EST, only because yesterday the AM dose was delayed from 6AM EST. We're only 1 1/2 days of treatment. Would the shed be full already? I wouldn't think so....
I understand the stalling would be a reduction, but do I basically wait till the PM shot, basically 12 hours? Isn't that equal to a huge reduction?
Sorry, still trying to wrap my head around this. I've reread many of the articles. In my head, it would (could)make sense to administer the PM dose a bit earlier in this case, which would equal a "less tan huge reduction"..... ?
 
Re: 8/1 Tucker- AMBG 126, skipped shot

We just wanted to stop by and welcome you. Nice start for Tucker today!! Hope you have a wonderful Wednesday!!
 
Re: 8/1 Tucker- AMBG 126, skipped shot

Thanks Melissa. Tarragon is a beauty. My Sophie, #2 cat, is a 10yr old Maine coon also, all 20lbs of her!
 
Re: 8/1 Tucker- +12 126, skipped shot

ChrisJ & Tucker said:
Sorry about the lack of time info, I was refering to hopefully doing a shooting time of 5AM/PM EST... his current schedule is 6:45AM/PM EST, only because yesterday the AM dose was delayed from 6AM EST. We're only 1 1/2 days of treatment. Would the shed be full already? I wouldn't think so....
I understand the stalling would be a reduction, but do I basically wait till the PM shot, basically 12 hours? Isn't that equal to a huge reduction?
Sorry, still trying to wrap my head around this. I've reread many of the articles. In my head, it would (could)make sense to administer the PM dose a bit earlier in this case, which would equal a "less tan huge reduction"..... ?
Click to expand...


Hi again Chris! I may have expressed myself in a confusing way. What I meant by saying that skipping a shot is comparable, even tantamount, to stalling for a whole cycle, was that *if* the dose that was then shot (after skipping/stalling a whole cycle) was still too high, chances are the effects would be less drastic. I hope that makes sense. As Sienne said, you're fine to go ahead with the shot time you are aiming for (5am/pm) - I wasn't certain how many hours you'd be shifting by, so I didn't want to respond before knowing you original shot time.

You're doing so well! If you're still going to be around for a bit before you have to leave, could you maybe try setting up your FDMB Profile? We've been thinking about Tucker's case quite a bit on and off the board, and it would be very very useful to have all of his info in one place, rather than needing to go through your previous threads.

Jane
 
Re: 8/1 Tucker- AMBG 126, skipped shot

Jane, I think you're a saint, selflessly providing us newbies with comfort and support when we need it so bad! Also, just putting up with our endless questions, rehashing everything! THANK YOU... THANK YOU.... THANK YOU!
I will try and set up the profile ASAP, but that might be a bit....
Would it be a better thing for me to set up a different thread with general questions I might have on dosing, and not clutter up the daily "condo", during a time your educated input is needed by us newbies? That way opinions/discussions can be given during "down time", if you ever have that!
 
Re: 8/1 Tucker- AMBG 126, skipped shot

So far today....
AMBG 126 - decided no shot this AM
+1 115 (fed FF Classic chicken)
+2 122
+3 100 (retested and it was 94) hmmm....
Off to work. Should be home about +7
 
Re: 8/1 Tucker- AMBG 126, skipped shot

ChrisJ & Tucker said:
Jane, I think you're a saint, selflessly providing us newbies with comfort and support when we need it so bad! Also, just putting up with our endless questions, rehashing everything! THANK YOU... THANK YOU.... THANK YOU! I will try and set up the profile ASAP, but that might be a bit.... Would it be a better thing for me to set up a different thread with general questions I might have on dosing, and not clutter up the daily "condo", during a time your educated input is needed by us newbies? That way opinions/discussions can be given during "down time", if you ever have that!
Click to expand...

Oh come now, Chris! You're going to make me bashful ;-) I feel like I need and want to make up for a lot of lost time! When Karre was first diagnosed, he went OTJ - wholly thanks to FDMB - in only five short weeks, and afterwards some life events kept me from finding my way back here as regularly as I had planned to. So now that Karre has once again had to call on the incredible support of LL and its amazing members, I'm very grateful to be able to give a little back to the people who have always, without hesitating, given so much to us. I'm very glad that you feel supported and safe here!

About setting up another condo: No, that's not what we recommend. We like to have 1 condo per cat per day so that we know where to look for possible queries. Go ahead and post whatever you want to know right here. If you feel you need assistance or advice urgently, rather amend you subject line: add a "?" icon or a "Q" in the thread title, or even "Need Advice/Help" in the thread title. You have the option, at any time, to contact any FDMB member via PM (private message), but you need to be aware that dosing advice is not given via PM because it is safest, on a peer-reviewed forum like this one, to have advice out in the open where others can respond. Still, the PM system is useful if you have something that's a bit OT (off topic), or about admin stuff (like profile set-up, just off the top of my head :-D). If someone receives a PM from you and feels input is needed, they may well post back in your condo.

It really would be immensely helpful to get that profile set up, today if possible. I don't mean to be pushy, just to make sure all of us here can see your info all summarized.
Jane
 
Re: 8/1 Tucker- AMBG 126, skipped shot

Hi guys .. looks like you got a lot of great advice here in your condo today .. how exciting, to have such nice looking numbers in such a short amount of time! You're doing great! have a great day guys!
 
Re: 8/1 Tucker- AMBG 126, skipped shot

ChrisJ & Tucker said:
So far today....
AMBG 126 - decided no shot this AM
+1 115 (fed FF Classic chicken)
+2 122
+3 100 (retested and it was 94) hmmm....
Off to work. Should be home about +7
Click to expand...

I like the way his BGs came down on their own, after eating. :thumbup
 
Re: 8/1 Tucker- AMBG 126, skipped shot

Hello All !
So far today....8/01/12
AMBG 126 - decided no shot this AM
+1 115 (fed FF Classic chicken)
+2 122
+3 100 (retested and it was 94) hmmm....
Off to work. Should be home about +7
+7 85 (gave Tucker some cooked chicken for the great #s and someFF!)

I'm crossing my fingers........
 
Re: 8/1 Tucker- AM skipped shot,+7 85

AWESOME!!! :mrgreen: :mrgreen: :mrgreen:

don't let him eat anything else before what you want as "shot time" tonight. let's see what he can do on his own!


is tucker an indoor/outdoor cat? you may have said, but memory is failing me.
 
Re: 8/1 Tucker- AM skipped shot,+7 85

Tucker is an indoor only cat. I'll try and keep the food away from him. Might be hard because he'll go after Sophie's food, in another room. Sophie is a 20lb Maine coon, I've switched over to wet only. She gets the Gravy Sensations packs with LC FF mixed in, in order to keep her food levels up. Tucker tries to sneak in and lick the gravy! I'll try my best.
 
Re: 8/1 Tucker- AM skipped shot,+7 85

yes, please do whatever you can to keep him out of sophie's food. the hc portion of sophie's meals won't do him any good right now.

i think we'd all (including you) like to see if tucker can manage on his own without insulin. tucker may be going into remission OR he may be very, very close to it. he may only need micro doses of insulin to help him get there. at this point, we'll have to take our cue from him.

btw, that 85 is a +19! :mrgreen:
 
Re: 8/1 Tucker- AM skipped shot,+7 85,+8 90

in response to chris' PM:

if tucker were mine and he is at or anywhere near normal numbers (normal being less than 120) at shot time tonight i would seriously consider an experiment using food instead of insulin to bring his numbers down.

i would feed small amounts of food every four hours as often as my work and sleeping schedule would allow... testing every time before feeding. that way i would know if he was bringing himself down on his own.

it would be an experiment. it might stimulate his pancreas into working on it's own. it's also possible the experiment would fail... requiring the need for small amounts of insulin to be given to help him along for awhile.

you'd also have to try very, very hard to keep tucker away from sophie's food as long as she's getting some hc mixed in her meals.


let's see how things go. just putting this out there now so you have time to think about it...
 
Re: 8/1 Tucker- AM skipped shot,+7 85,+8 90

All food is put away. Hopefully Tucker is hungry then.
I'm game to try this, if the numbers warrant it. If he's not hungry or doesn't eat much it can't hurt.
Now, you're saying doing this all night? Like 5pm, 9pm, 1am, and then the amps.... correct?
 
Re: 8/1 Tucker- AM skipped shot,+7 85,+8 90

heavens, no. you can't stay up all night and function everyday! just test and feed every 4 hours as much as your schedule will allow. you have to sleep and you have to work. when you'll be gone or asleep for extended periods of time test and then just leave some food out for him to nibble on while you're gone/asleep. we don't want to starve him! you want to make sure he's getting his normal amount of calories from food everyday.

let's see where he's at when it comes to shot time. if he zooms up this discussion may be a moot point.
practice drawing 0.1u just in case...
 
Re: 8/1 Tucker- AM skipped shot +8 90,+9 86

Hello All !
So far today....8/01/12
AMBG 126 - decided no shot this AM
+1 115 (fed FF Classic chicken)
+2 122
+3 100 (retested and it was 94) hmmm....
Off to work. Should be home about +7
+7 85 (gave Tucker some cooked chicken for the great #s and someFF!)
+8 90
+9 86
 
Re: 8/1 Tucker- AM skipped shot +8 90,+9 86

AMBG 126 - decided no shot this AM
+1 115 (fed FF Classic chicken)
+2 122
+3 100 (retested and it was 94) hmmm....
Off to work. Should be home about +7
+7 85 (gave Tucker some cooked chicken for the great #s and someFF!)
+8 90
+9 86
+10 74 This will now become my new PMBG. Changing to a 5AM, 5PM EDT dosing schedule if needed.
 
Re: 8/1 Tucker- AM skipped shot +8 90,+9 86

ChrisJ & Tucker said:
AMBG 126 - decided no shot this AM
+1 115 (fed FF Classic chicken)
+2 122
+3 100 (retested and it was 94) hmmm....
Off to work. Should be home about +7
+7 85 (gave Tucker some cooked chicken for the great #s and someFF!)
+8 90
+9 86
+10 74 This will now become my new PMBG. Changing to a 5AM, 5PM EDT dosing schedule if needed.
Click to expand...
wellllllllllllllll, if i were in your shoes i'd opt for an experiment using food instead of insulin.
he's bringing himself down beautifully!!!

what do you think? want to try it?
 
Re: 8/1 Tucker- AM skipped shot +9 86, +10 74

lol!!! ok, tucker... it's up to you. show us what you can do! :mrgreen: :mrgreen: :mrgreen:
 
Re: 8/1 Tucker- AM skipped shot +9 86, +10 74

OK... so now I give him some food. Just a little? And how often do the BG? What do you think?
If he doesn't eat now, take it away for 4 hours and try again?
 
Re: 8/1 Tucker- AM skipped shot +9 86, +10 74

divide up how much you usually give him into how many meals you think you'll get in before bed time... the last portion to be left out when you go to bed. test before feeding.

there's no exact science. all you want to do is feed small portions rather than whole meals which could overwhelm the pancreas.

and don't worry if some of the numbers are higher than you want to see. it happens. what we'll be looking for is an upwards trend versus isolated high numbers.
 
Re: 8/1 Tucker- AM skipped shot +9 86, +10 74

oops... didn't answer this question:

If he doesn't eat now, take it away for 4 hours and try again?
Click to expand...

use your own judgment. personally, i'd leave it out for awhile before picking it up. we don't want him to starve! that can create other problems and we don't want to go there.

btw, that +10 of 74 is really a +22. we count how many hours have gone by since the last shot.


GOOD LUCK!!!
 
Re: 8/1 Tucker- AM skipped shot +9 86, +10 74

Hi Chris (and Tucker!)

I've got nothing in the way of advice. I just wanted to let you know this is awesome to "watch" as it happens! Fingers and paws crossed here.

Carl
 
Re: 8/1 Tucker- AM skipped shot +9 86, +10 74

When I posted this afternoon, I had deleted my words "how exciting!". Now, I'm reposting them.
How Exciting! :mrgreen: Gooo Tucker!
 
Re: 8/1 Tucker- AM skipped shot +9 86, +10 74

Thanks guys! I'm crossing my fingers on this one. Just came back from Walmart with some more cat food. Sophie and Tucker have their own favorites. I'm going to have to add cabinets for all the food. Or at least find a craft to utilize the empties! (I bet I'd find something online!)
Tried to convert a lady in the catfood isle. She put the bag back on the shelf! 1 down, xxxxxxxx to go.
 
Re: 8/1 Tucker- AM skipped shot +9 86, +10 74

What an exciting day!!!

Just out of curiosity, is there any reason you can't feed Sophie the same food as Tucker? You can give her more, given she's a big Maine Coon but why not the same LC? Gizmo (he's a 3yo Norwegian Forest Cat -- so a littler smaller than a Maine Coon) eats exactly the same food as Gabby. He just gets more. That way, I don't have to worry about policing the bowls.
 
Re: 8/1 Tucker- AM skipped shot +9 86, +10 74

Feeding them the same food will be the ultimate goal. Sophie was not eating the canned food nearly enough. She loved her kibble, but also loved the gravy from Gravy Sensations". So to keep her eating, I'm slowly adding more of the LC to the Gravy Sensations, and she's eating more of it. I was getting worried when I didn't see as many poops and pees as I thought I should. I did check her BG and it was 50. She is 100% off dry.
 
Re: 8/1 Tucker- AM skipped shot +9 86, +10 74

Or at least find a craft to utilize the empties! (I bet I'd find something online!)
Click to expand...
http://www.thriftyfun.com/tf96285834.tip.html
Or if you are feeling really adventurous:
http://bangordailynews.com/2009/11/09/living/capping-off-her-vision/

Tried to convert a lady in the catfood isle. She put the bag back on the shelf! 1 down, xxxxxxxx to go.
Click to expand...
That's great! I keep trying, but mostly people just look at me like I'm crazy cat guy. :o

Carl
 
Re: 8/1 Tucker- AM skipped shot +26

Carl, Everyone here knows I'm a crazy guy!
I've switched Tuckers SS to a 5AM and 5PM (EDT) shoot time during this GREAT BG Surf ! I think it will fit my schedule better. Hopefully I won't need it!
Thanks

AMBG 126 - decided no shot this AM
+13 115 (fed FF Classic chicken)
+14 122
+15 100 (retested and it was 94) hmmm....
Off to work. Should be home about +7
+19 85 (gave Tucker some cooked chicken for the great #s and someFF!)
+20 90
+21 86
+22 74 This will now become my new PMBG. Changing to a 5AM, 5PM EDT dosing schedule if needed. Fed small amount of FF, then taken away.All eaten.
+26 73 Fed another small amount of FF, then taken away. All eaten.

( I was informed that you keep adding to the # for each hour off the juice)
 
Re: 8/1 Tucker- AM skipped shot +26

Chris,
You need to post a pic or an avatar pic of Tucker so we can put a face to a name!
This is a terrific run he's on...

Carl
 
Re: 8/1 Tucker- AM skipped shot +26

Carl, I've tried adding a picture of Tucker. It didn't work. Will try again later. He's a 10lb 14yr old butterscotch taby, neutered but doesn't know it!
The craft link is something! Way too much time on their hands. I once made a lighted Xmas tree for a friend out of full beercans. Just hot glued them together and added lights. It was small, fit into the fridge, so it was like a white trash appetizer for the holidays!
I'm crossing my fingers with these BG's!
 
Re: 8/1 Tucker- AM skipped shot +26 73

Still getting great numbers! +30 = 68 Gave Tucker another small amount of food. Will check about +35.
 
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