7/6 Ozzy PMPS 24.3 7 UNITS

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Andra&Ozzy

Andra&Ozzy

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@Sue and Oliver (GA) @Rachel @Robin&BB @BJM @scoobydoox

Switched to ProZinc today (8 am UK time), 3 1/2 units and doing a curve.

Some quick info (this is also in my previous thread http://www.felinediabetes.com/FDMB/threads/switch-from-caninsulin-to-prozinc.159005/#post-1695009 and in the detail bit in my profile):

He is still eating the Hills dry M/D and is still having a pancreatitis flare-up, plus he's on antibiotics for his upper respiratory infection. I understand the antibiotic itself raises the numbers? The latest antibiotic is Marbocyl. We tried Synulox but the infection came back, then another course of Betamox (?), and it didn't solve it. He has been on Marbocyl for the last 5 days and I am going back to the vet's today for more. Any advice on this would be much appreciated, too (e.g. ideas about a better antibiotic or ideas on what else to do to help him).

**UPDATE**: Vet recommended holding off on more antibiotics for today and tomorrow, to see how he does.
 
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Morning Andra! Sorry none of us were around earlier. It's just now 5 AM my time.

It looks like Ozzy had a nice number this morning for AMPS. Considering all the reds, that pink is good! I'm interested to see what kind of numbers you see today. I'll try to pop in and check on you occasionally, but I'm off to work in a bit, and I tend to have a hard time getting back on until I get home. Others will probably be around later.

I don't have any advice on the antibiotic really. I don't know enough about the ones you mentioned.
 
Rachel said:
Morning Andra! Sorry none of us were around earlier. It's just now 5 AM my time.

It looks like Ozzy had a nice number this morning for AMPS. Considering all the reds, that pink is good! I'm interested to see what kind of numbers you see today. I'll try to pop in and check on you occasionally, but I'm off to work in a bit, and I tend to have a hard time getting back on until I get home. Others will probably be around later.

I don't have any advice on the antibiotic really. I don't know enough about the ones you mentioned.
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Thanks very much, Rachel! No problem, I am impressed you are on so early. :)

Yes, it's not a bad starting number, given what we've been seeing lately. But then again, he didn't eat all that much overnight. He is due a Mirtazapine today and I'm worried that once I give it to him, he'll eat like a maniac and the numbers will go up too much. But I may have to give it to him later, if he keep grazing and not eating much.
 
Haha, I'm the early bird around here! I head to work early in the morning, so I have to get up early to drink coffee. And when I say I have to...I mean it. Coffee gives me life. ;)

Ah, okay that makes sense. Well, it might raise his numbers, but it is important that he eats. When do you give it?
 
Morning Andra, looking forward to seeing how Ozzy does on ProZinc. I'm not familiar with those antibiotics either. Are they in pill or liquid form? Liquid sometimes has sugar in it, but pills should be fine. Have you tried Lysine for Ozzy's URI? Some say it can help.
 
Lysine helps for herpes related URIs Murphy gets frequent sinus infections from seasonal allergies and I have had the best luck treating those with doxycycline Fingers crossed for good numbers today
 
Rachel said:
Haha, I'm the early bird around here! I head to work early in the morning, so I have to get up early to drink coffee. And when I say I have to...I mean it. Coffee gives me life. ;)

Ah, okay that makes sense. Well, it might raise his numbers, but it is important that he eats. When do you give it?
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I'm with you on the coffee front! I'm holding off on the Mirtazapine for now, he keeps going back to his bowl for the occasional graze, still.
 
Sharon14 said:
Morning Andra, looking forward to seeing how Ozzy does on ProZinc. I'm not familiar with those antibiotics either. Are they in pill or liquid form? Liquid sometimes has sugar in it, but pills should be fine. Have you tried Lysine for Ozzy's URI? Some say it can help.
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Thanks, @Sharon14 and @Carol & Murphy ! The antibiotics are in injection form. All of the ones they've prescribed so far have been. He did well on an anti-inflammatory (in addition to the antibiotics, but the two times we tried, he got diarrhoea from it. I understand this is a common side effect for some cats.

What is Lysine, @Carol & Murphy @Sharon14 ? How do you give it and how much? Glad it's helping Murphy, Carol! How were the allergies diagnosed, by the way?
 
Just checked his BG again right now for the +4 hrs curve. It's 19.5 from 20, two hour ago. He is coming down very slowly. The nadir is between +5 and +7 hours, right?
 
The Lysine -an amino acid- I use for one of my kitties is in a powder form. I mix 1/8 tsp in his wet food each AM. As Carol said it seems helpful for URI caused from the herpes virus. It also comes in a treat form, but I don't know if the treat has any sugar in it. Maybe ask your vet about it.
 
Sharon14 said:
The Lysine -an amino acid- I use for one of my kitties is in a powder form. I mix 1/8 tsp in his wet food each AM. As Carol said it seems helpful for URI caused from the herpes virus. It also comes in a treat form, but I don't know if the treat has any sugar in it. Maybe ask your vet about it.
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Thanks, Sharon. I'll ask the vet when we talk today. I just read something online about studies saying that L-Lysine not only does not help, but is potentially harmful. I'll link here, for your info, but I didn't do a thorough search, nor can I see a link on that web page to the studies it's referring to. http://consciouscat.net/2016/01/11/...ptoms-of-feline-upper-respiratory-infections/
 
Thanks for the link! I read it. In the comments section some claim it has helped their cats. I guess it helps some. I haven't been giving it to my cat for long. Maybe I'll just give it when he starts a flare up and then only until he's better, and will do some more research.
 
You're welcome, @Sharon14 , thanks for recommending it! I just spoke to the vet. He recommended holding off on starting anything else for now (even L-Lysine) and has also recommended we do not give him any more antibiotic for 48 hours (including today), to see how he does. Like you say, the Lysine probably helps some and others not. Might try him on it after these couple of days, if he still needs something.
 
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Latest BG up already, to 21.8 at +7 hours. The lowest he got today, at the nadir, was 19.3, from 20.2 AMPS. this was on 3 1/2 units of Prozinc. Vet is suggesting giving him 5 units tonight. Thoughts?

**EDIT** 18:00

Just got a reading of 18.3, which is the lowest he has been today. Late nadir? This is the period in the day when he ate the least/ almost nothing.
 
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Sharon14 said:
Have you given the PM shot?
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I am just about to do it. Glad you're here. :) 18.9. Vet said 5 units. Any advice? He didn't go lower than 18.2 today on 3 1/2 units, and that was with almost no eating. I have just given him a Mirtazapine, and he's eaten.
 
Sharon14 said:
@Sue and Oliver (GA) , @Robin&BB , @Rachel
It's usually not advised to jump in dose by that much. I don't know if your case is different though because of the high dose he's been on. Can you wait a few minutes to see if the others come on?
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Sure! Yes, vet advised to jump to 5 because he didn't come lower than two points today (from 20 to 18). He has had 12 units of Caninsulin for the last few days/ couple of weeks and numbers weren't coming down lower than 14 (with two anomalies when he hadn't eaten).
 
Andra, I am very concerned about the dosing, because Ozzy has stayed in numbers that we call "high and flat" throughout this last cycle.

I am uncertain of what to tell you to do about the dosing, but that said, it worries me that your vet wants so much of an increase in ProZinc dose because by raising the dose by too much, you could possibly "miss" the correct dose for your Ozzy. (Just read your post above as I was writing this, so am glad you'll be monitoring closely.)

There are so many variables in play for Ozzy right now: the pancreatitis and other health issues, multiple medications, high-carb "prescription" diet, the fact that high-dose conditions have not yet been ruled out. (Have they? IAA, for example, is a very specific type of test that most vets are not even aware of. Ask @MrWorfMen's Mom , Linda, about this.)

So in a nutshell: Ozzy's situation makes it a very "iffy" proposition for any of us to attempt giving you dosing advice at this point in time, because none of us are veterinarians here.

In all honesty? If Ozzy were my own cat, I would be taking him to an additional vet for a second opinion and full "high-condition" workup, asap. :bighug::bighug::bighug:
 
Robin&BB said:
@Elizabeth and Bertie - Is the type of ketone meter that tests for ketones via an ear poke available over there in the U.K.? (Over here in the U.S., I believe it's called "Precision Xtra")
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Is it this one?

https://freestylediabetes.co.uk/our-products/freestyle-optium-neo

I read about it yesterday after @scoobydoox told me about it. It seemed to me that all it does (from the description) is tell you to check for ketones once the BG number is 13 or higher. Did I miss something and it literally reads traces of ketones in the blood? If so, I'll order it tonight!
 
This is the one I was talking about, available on Amazon in U.S.:

http://www.amazon.com/Precision-Glu...qid=1465242826&sr=1-2&keywords=precision+xtra

And you have to order the ketone strips separately (they do NOT come with the meter kit):

http://www.amazon.com/Precision-Xtr...-2&keywords=precision+xtra+ketone+test+strips

So if the meter you're looking at only indicates you should "test for ketones" and doesn't read blood for ketone levels via special ketone strips, you don't want that one. (Maybe you can order this other one via Amazon U.S???)
 
Robin&BB said:
Andra, I am very concerned about the dosing, because Ozzy has stayed in numbers that we call "high and flat" throughout this last cycle.

I am uncertain of what to tell you to do about the dosing, but that said, it worries me that your vet wants so much of an increase in ProZinc dose because by raising the dose by too much, you could possibly "miss" the correct dose for your Ozzy. (Just read your post above as I was writing this, so am glad you'll be monitoring closely.)

There are so many variables in play for Ozzy right now: the pancreatitis and other health issues, multiple medications, high-carb "prescription" diet, the fact that high-dose conditions have not yet been ruled out. (Have they? IAA, for example, is a very specific type of test that most vets are not even aware of. Ask @MrWorfMen's Mom , Linda, about this.)

So in a nutshell: Ozzy's situation makes it a very "iffy" proposition for any of us to attempt giving you dosing advice at this point in time, because none of us are veterinarians here.

In all honesty? If Ozzy were my own cat, I would be taking him to an additional vet for a second opinion and full "high-condition" workup, asap. :bighug::bighug::bighug:
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Thank you very much @Robin&BB and @Sharon14 . I see what you mean... Yes, you're right about the variables. I think the logic of the vet is: get him down for now, so that we can avoid toxicity build-up and then maybe we lower the dose. I will be monitoring him tonight (and checking).

I read about acromegaly and IAA last night, after @Robin&BB and @BJM mentioned it. told the vet today and he said he'd been meaning to talk to me about that, because he thinks Ozzy should be tested for these. so, i have an appointment tomorrow at 12:30 for this. they'll take blood and send it to the lab for both things. Hopefully, they're not in play. :( We also have an 'open' appointment with a specialist/internist that i need to book, as soon as the vet thinks it's ok to go. I think both my long-term vet and the new one want to wait a week or so before the internist appointment, to see what happens with the ProZinc dosage.
 
Robin&BB said:
This is the one I was talking about, available on Amazon in U.S.:

http://www.amazon.com/Precision-Glucose-Ketone-Monitoring-System/dp/B008UZVLM8/ref=sr_1_2_s_it?s=hpc&ie=UTF8&qid=1465242826&sr=1-2&keywords=precision xtra

And you have to order the ketone strips separately (they do NOT come with the meter kit):

http://www.amazon.com/Precision-Xtra-Blood-Ketone-Strips/dp/B001EL30TM/ref=sr_1_2_a_it?ie=UTF8&qid=1465242935&sr=8-2&keywords=precision xtra ketone test strips

So if the meter you're looking at only indicates you should "test for ketones" and doesn't read blood for ketone levels via special ketone strips, you don't want that one. (Maybe you can order this other one via Amazon U.S???)
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Thank you, having a look right now. What's blood testing for ketones like, compared to testing the urine? Does it pick up the same kinds of elements, is it as precise, etc.? The vet tested two weeks ago for ketones (both blood and urine) and there were none. But he has been very high since. So, that was the first time I heard that ketones could be tested for in the blood, I don't know much about it...
 
@Robin&BB , when you say this is what you call a 'high and flat curve', any indication of what this may mean? I know it's really hard to guess, and Ozzy is a very complicated case, but is it usually indicative of something specific?
 
Andra&Ozzy said:
Thank you, having a look right now. What's blood testing for ketones like, compared to testing the urine? Does it pick up the same kinds of elements, is it as precise, etc.? The vet tested two weeks ago for ketones (both blood and urine) and there were none. But he has been very high since. So, that was the first time I heard that ketones could be tested for in the blood, I don't know much about it...
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@Bobbie And Bubba - I know you have often had to test Bubba for ketones ... can you explain how it all works for Andra?
 
Andra&Ozzy said:
Is it this one?

https://freestylediabetes.co.uk/our-products/freestyle-optium-neo
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Hi Andra,
This seems to get mainly good reviews on Amazon UK here:

https://www.amazon.co.uk/FREESTYLE-...1465242984&sr=8-2&keywords=blood+ketone+meter

My understanding is that it needs separate test strips for ketones and glucose. So, if you're planning on just using it as a ketone meter then you'd only need the ketone test strips....(at least I think that's the case (?!). See the info on the Amazon site, I found it a tad confusing....:confused:)

Eliz
 
Hey Andra ~ I use the Abbott Precision Xtra ketone meter. It was maybe around 30 dollars on Amazon. The strips are a bit pricey. The cheapest place I found them was from a Canadian Online Pharmacy for around $ 2.25 a strip. But for me, it was so worth it because I found trying to get a sample from the litter box impossible as I never knew when he was in the box and how long the urine had been there. Also, ketones show up immediately in the blood but it takes a while for it to show in the urine so you get important information faster with the blood sample.

I would use the same blood sample that I was using to test the BG. I would have both of the meters ready to go and quickly get a sample on one strip then the other. If you need the Canadian Pharmacy information if you go with the Precision Xtra, let me know and I will get it for you.
 
Carol & Murphy said:
Lysine helps for herpes related URIs Murphy gets frequent sinus infections from seasonal allergies and I have had the best luck treating those with doxycycline Fingers crossed for good numbers today
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Carol what are the symptoms for sinus infections? Fritz has been what looks like lip licking and his little nose is wet and has clear liquid, not all the time. I kinda thought it might be from asthma. The strange thing is about three weeks ago his asthma symptoms disappeared. I am happy but surprised.
 
Andra, I think the high dose condition tests will help us. I just don't know how to advise for dosing. I wonder if we're dealing with high dosing conditions.
 
Bobbie And Bubba said:
Hey Andra ~ I use the Abbott Precision Xtra ketone meter. It was maybe around 30 dollars on Amazon. The strips are a bit pricey. The cheapest place I found them was from a Canadian Online Pharmacy for around $ 2.25 a strip. But for me, it was so worth it because I found trying to get a sample from the litter box impossible as I never knew when he was in the box and how long the urine had been there. Also, ketones show up immediately in the blood but it takes a while for it to show in the urine so you get important information faster with the blood sample.

I would use the same blood sample that I was using to test the BG. I would have both of the meters ready to go and quickly get a sample on one strip then the other. If you need the Canadian Pharmacy information if you go with the Precision Xtra, let me know and I will get it for you.
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Yes, please! I'd love that link. I'll probably order this one from the US tonight (I'm in the UK- so, if they deliver). Like you, I have trouble doing urine testing for Oz, even though I've had the strips and the plastic litter for ages!

Thanks for explaining how you do it and what it means, that makes a lot of sense. For the ketone/glucose tester from the US(the link above) I read that I actually does test for traces of ketones in the blood. For the Neo that's available in the UK, what I read on Amazon and their official site is that what it does is blink three times when your BG is 13 or higher. But maybe that was just for the glucose strips... Hmm... I'm confused. Couldn't find more info. It would help if I could order a UK one, as it would cost less and would be easier to reorder the strips, too.
 
Rachel said:
Andra, I think the high dose condition tests will help us. I just don't know how to advise for dosing. I wonder if we're dealing with high dosing conditions.
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Thanks, Rachel. I understand, it's tricky to advise in a complex situation... I'll be anxiously waiting for results.
 
Elizabeth and Bertie said:
Hi Andra,
This seems to get mainly good reviews on Amazon UK here:

https://www.amazon.co.uk/FREESTYLE-OPTIUM-GLUCOSE-KETONE-METER/dp/B00IS58UJM/ref=sr_1_2_a_it?ie=UTF8&qid=1465242984&sr=8-2&keywords=blood ketone meter

My understanding is that it needs separate test strips for ketones and glucose. So, if you're planning on just using it as a ketone meter then you'd only need the ketone test strips....(at least I think that's the case (?!). See the info on the Amazon site, I found it a tad confusing....:confused:)

Eliz
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Thanks, Eliz, that's what confuses me, too. The info I read last night explained that all it does is alert you when BG is 13 or higher. But now I'm wondering if what they mean is *with the glucose strips it also tells you that*. So it may be that the ketone strips do test specifically for that in the blood.
 
Andra&Ozzy said:
Yes, please! I'd love that link. I'll probably order this one from the US tonight (I'm in the UK- so, if they deliver). Like you, I have trouble doing urine testing for Oz, even though I've had the strips and the plastic litter for ages!

Thanks for explaining how you do it and what it means, that makes a lot of sense. For the ketone/glucose tester from the US(the link above) I read that I actually does test for traces of ketones in the blood. For the Neo that's available in the UK, what I read on Amazon and their official site is that what it does is blink three times when your BG is 13 or higher. But maybe that was just for the glucose strips... Hmm... I'm confused. Couldn't find more info. It would help if I could order a UK one, as it would cost less and would be easier to reorder the strips, too.
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The Pharmacy is : Universal Drugstore Toll free Tel 1-866-456-2456 When using a human ketone meter, you do not need to be concerned with a reading under 2.4. When you get the meter and you are ready tag me and I will give you two links that were provided to me my one of the Moderators here about understanding the readings as compared to felines.

I just saw Sharon's post above, the Precision does both too but the strips are so damn expensive so I use the Relion Prime for BG's and the Abbott Precision Xtra for ketones.
 
Andra, here's Q&A from Amazon users re: the Abbott brand meter you found on Amazon U.K:

    • Hi you would need to buy the Ketone strips as these do not come with the aparatus,
      By TUKSUMDUIN PHARMA 'UK' - (TUK… on 08 March 2016

    • The unit will process blood samples and provide reading for glucose and ketone levels. However you need the strips ( one type for glucose and another for ketone) to collect the blood and insert into the unit. I dont think this kit includes the strips. The stips are on line at a suprising range of … see more
      By Nick the digger on 11 March 2016

    • Freestyle Ketone strips. They are a different colour and when they are inserted your machine should come up with KET on the screen. I don't have to do this myself but all the instructions are on the information sheet supplied with the machine.
      By Amazon Customer on 11 March 2016

    • Optium Beta-Ketone test Strips are to test for blood ketone. Each pack contains 10 test strips , one calibrator and instructions for use, cheers Tuksumduin Pharma
      By TUKSUMDUIN PHARMA 'UK' - (TUK… on 09 March 2016
 
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