7/31 |Bg 129| vet visit today<was an exercise in futility>

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apple

Member Since 2017
Bg 129
Weight unknown
The scale said 11.6lbs, he didn't feel that light. I weighed both of us and then me, that came to 12lbs, then reweighed him 12.2lbs.....so, I don't know.

We go to the vet today.
His reg vet is out, so we have a different vet. I have to say, I'm not doing well with the idea of taking him to a vet. I'm shaking and my heart is thumping fast and loud. I think I've got some trauma or something going on from what happened at the u. I'm worried I won't be able to give the vet my cat.

Link to other condo
http://www.felinediabetes.com/FDMB/...7-26-bg-broke-200s.180956/page-3#post-2010086
 
Etta and calming vines. It's good to have a digital baby scale to weigh. Active kittens or cats are hard to get to sit though. Amazon has then for about $40 from time to time. I've used mine for senior or sick cats as well as my active kittens.
 
Short version: university vet called local vet after we were at the u and told local vet no Mannitol. I had no idea this call had been made.

Those of you that had suggested my local vet call the u vet, when we were there, and advocate on my cat's behalf......when I said she wouldn't be swayed......yep, she won't. Not only won't she listen to local vet, she's interfering with his care that she isn't involved in anymore. Never occurred to me that she would try and control his health care at the local level.

U vet also told local vet I was removed from the property. Many of you read what I wrote. Nobody removed me. I wasn't hauled off. U vet missed the part where I was in the exam room wairing waiting for the bill to get ready so I could pay it. I have to wait somewhere. I told my vet, yes, they did ask me to leave the exam room. I was in there waiting for the bill to process so I could pay it. I looked at my vet and said, "I thought I should pay my bill before leaving."

So, short version, exercise in futility.

I'll update more later. Want to get him home and settled in.
 
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You may not have gotten the Mannitol, but did the vet check out apple, to see what is wrong? Did the vet prescribe anything or recommend a treatment? How is Apple doing?
 
I'm boiling here. What right does u have once you are discharged? How did they know you had appt today? Your vet can give it if they think it's warranted. I still don't see why u wouldn't give it. I hope you fired u and report them to the vet medical board. They caused unnecessary pain and suffering for your kitty. I hope Apple is doing better despite the so called professionals.
 
Marvin's Mom - Nat said:
You may not have gotten the Mannitol, but did the vet check out apple, to see what is wrong? Did the vet prescribe anything or recommend a treatment? How is Apple doing?
Click to expand...

Mannitol is not off the table. She wants to try other things first.

The exam was hands off to reduce trauma.

This vet has known him since his younger days she he could size up he wasn't himself.

He is on furosemide and ???(mind went blank) for several days to see if it helps. Then recheck
 
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Vet visit.

Vet scale 13.0lbs. So, he has to gain .5lbs to be back at his proper weight.

Vet listened and took notes. I recalled all events, his behavior and the resulting action at the u.

I described his behavior in the exam room and how the u vet said it's wonderful. I asked local vet what she would do if he did that here. "Be worried. Yeah, it's not his normal."

I also explained how it took more than one try to try to get someone to take me seriously that he's not okay and needs help (after anesthesia).

I got a copy of what the u sent local vet practice. There was one sentence about the ICU. The sentence said that I requested my cat to be admitted. NO MENTION OF HIS CONDITION NO MENTION OF ANY TREATMENT RECIEVED. I'm not yelling at you all, with all caps. I'm being horrified that what happened to him is summed up in ONE sentence that I requested him to be admitted. To make it clear. I never requested for him to be admitted. A student or dvm scooped him up and ran out of the room to the er. Next I know I'm told 4 dvms are working on him, he's on oxygen and I'm told he's staying in ICU.

Local vet and I went step by step over what I was told happened to him and how likely "that explanation" was likely.

Local vet said I am entitled to a copy of my records. She said the fact that they wouldn't give them was odd. Also, u is entitled to redact anything they want from records.

@Tanya and Ducia asked about electrolytes. Local vet felt that probably wasn't it. He would also need vomiting and runny box. At this time, it's not on her list. Not off the list, but not prime candidate.

She agreed his personality was off and his behavior was not appropriate. She also feels he is in pain. I said that I was told he was in pain at u and they elected not to give him bupe or pain meds. She didn't say anything, but the look on her face was like......?.......

My cat was denied narcotic pain meds, but judged to be in great pain.

She agreed he probably does have edima on the brain because I see a differnce in behavior and pain when he gets the furosemide. She wants to do furosemide first because it's an in & out drug. She did mention he may need to be in it long term. As which point I brought up mannitol. One and done....not daily.

We try furosemide first.

Also back on the table is the dex. *Please note, when I type dex, my phone autocorrects to sex and one of these times I know I won't catch it....:(

If he goes back on dex, she feels he will need to go back on insulin.

Diabetic information: right now, he will get daily testing, while he needs to self feed, testing will not be the standards 2 hour food pull and test. If he is over 200, watch water and food intake. If he looks like he can handle it, pull food 2 hr and test. While under 250 no insulin while working on his head. The numbers also need a little finese......
So, how to explain.....he can't be 250 daily each and every day. He was low 100s sat, low 200s sun low 100s today. We are looking for downs if he's up. (Not sure that makes sense while trying to explain on a screen) he can't be 250 daily with no insulin.

This is not medical directions: just info I'm sharing. Local vet said furosemide will not raise bg levels.

I asked about kitty Prozac. Local vet felt if we get edima and pain under control that was the place to start

I've not proofed this post. There are probably wonky random things that make for creative reading. :D
 
It looks like progress, it may not be exactly what you would have liked, but at least your vet is listening and taking action. I hope that apple is getting a bit of rest, and starts feeling much better soon and quickly. You should also take some time for you, maybe a nice long walk outside.
 
apple said:
Vet visit.

Vet scale 13.0lbs. So, he has to gain .5lbs to be back at his proper weight.

Vet listened and took notes. I recalled all events, his behavior and the resulting action at the u.

I described his behavior in the exam room and how the u vet said it's wonderful. I asked local vet what she would do if he did that here. "Be worried. Yeah, it's not his normal."

I also explained how it took more than one try to try to get someone to take me seriously that he's not okay and needs help (after anesthesia).

I got a copy of what the u sent local vet practice. There was one sentence about the ICU. The sentence said that I requested my cat to be admitted. NO MENTION OF HIS CONDITION NO MENTION OF ANY TREATMENT RECIEVED. I'm not yelling at you all, with all caps. I'm being horrified that what happened to him is summed up in ONE sentence that I requested him to be admitted. To make it clear. I never requested for him to be admitted. A student or dvm scooped him up and ran out of the room to the er. Next I know I'm told 4 dvms are working on him, he's on oxygen and I'm told he's staying in ICU.

Local vet and I went step by step over what I was told happened to him and how likely "that explanation" was likely.

Local vet said I am entitled to a copy of my records. She said the fact that they wouldn't give them was odd. Also, u is entitled to redact anything they want from records.

@Tanya and Ducia asked about electrolytes. Local vet felt that probably wasn't it. He would also need vomiting and runny box. At this time, it's not on her list. Not off the list, but not prime candidate.

She agreed his personality was off and his behavior was not appropriate. She also feels he is in pain. I said that I was told he was in pain at u and they elected not to give him bupe or pain meds. She didn't say anything, but the look on her face was like......?.......

My cat was denied narcotic pain meds, but judged to be in great pain.

She agreed he probably does have edima on the brain because I see a differnce in behavior and pain when he gets the furosemide. She wants to do furosemide first because it's an in & out drug. She did mention he may need to be in it long term. As which point I brought up mannitol. One and done....not daily.

We try furosemide first.

Also back on the table is the dex. *Please note, when I type dex, my phone autocorrects to sex and one of these times I know I won't catch it....:(

If he goes back on dex, she feels he will need to go back on insulin.

Diabetic information: right now, he will get daily testing, while he needs to self feed, testing will not be the standards 2 hour food pull and test. If he is over 200, watch water and food intake. If he looks like he can handle it, pull food 2 hr and test. While under 250 no insulin while working on his head. The numbers also need a little finese......
So, how to explain.....he can't be 250 daily each and every day. He was low 100s sat, low 200s sun low 100s today. We are looking for downs if he's up. (Not sure that makes sense while trying to explain on a screen) he can't be 250 daily with no insulin.

This is not medical directions: just info I'm sharing. Local vet said furosemide will not raise bg levels.

I asked about kitty Prozac. Local vet felt if we get edima and pain under control that was the place to start

I've not proofed this post. There are probably wonky random things that make for creative reading. :D
Click to expand...
Sounds like this vet is listening and working with you at least.
 
Woodsywife said:
I'm boiling here. What right does u have once you are discharged? How did they know you had appt today? Your vet can give it if they think it's warranted. I still don't see why u wouldn't give it. I hope you fired u and report them to the vet medical board. They caused unnecessary pain and suffering for your kitty. I hope Apple is doing better despite the so called professionals.
Click to expand...
I don't know exact time of when the u called local vet. My guess is probably after I was "removed."


The u dvm's story kept changing.
If it was a pill, yes she said she would give it. Because it's done by iv she wouldn't. Too tramautic for the cat and he's a difficult patient.

Then she said you can't give it to diabetics but she has given it to him before as a diabetic.

Then he said it's not safe. Then she said it's safe and if he was easy to handle it wouldn't be a big deal.

Bottom line I think she didn't want to.

She also didn't like that I shared the time that he did need it, she denied, he had an MRI. It showed he needed it and she gave it. I asked her to remember that I've asked for it twice, she didn't want to, and each MRI showed he needed it. (And she gave it).

He's not in a position to have an MRI to look for fluid in his brain. I wanted to go on past history. She said no. "It was just a coincidence that he needed it." I also wanted credit for knowing my cat inside outside upside down. She told me she is the neurologist, not me, she went to school to the the Dr not me. I replied with I may not be a Dr, but I'm the most well versed person on my cat. I have a 14 year degree in my cat. She's only seen him a couple of hours total in his life. I can put his behavior in CONTEXT......
 
I am really happy your local vet is listening to you and sees what you're seeing. I hope the new meds help Apple get back to his normal self. If not, at least you know the Mannitol isn't off the table. (Though, at this point Im not sure why the vet would withhold a treatment known to work... poor Apple must be so uncomfortable :()

:bighug:
 
Here's one for ya.....

U vet said to local vet that I requested u vet to euthanize my cat and she refused to do it.

I looked my vet in the eyes and said no. I never asked her that.

I haven't processed how I feel about her saying I asked her to do that, when I didn't.
 
apple said:
Here's one for ya.....

U vet said to local vet that I requested u vet to euthanize my cat and she refused to do it.

I looked my vet in the eyes and said no. I never asked her that.

I haven't processed how I feel about her saying I asked her to do that, when I didn't.
Click to expand...

Now steam is coming out. I would inform her supervisors and or superiors. If you wanted to do that, you wouldn't have gone there to begin with. That doctors sounds very unstable.
 
I'm still sending love and prayers. :bighug::bighug:

I think it's very important you get the full records off the Uni. And that you file an official complaint.
 
So glad you finally have a vet who is listening to you, and who knows Apple! Prayers that he starts feeling better soon. :bighug:

I agree, please get any and all records the U will give you, and then file an official complaint(s). I would file a complaint with the U and with the State Board of Veterinarians, as well. Tell them every detail, including the stuff the U vet claims, that isn't true; it sounds like she's trying to cover up their mistakes and the U and State Board should be aware of this.
 
I'm so sorry all this has happened. I'm very glad, though, that you're connected again with your local vet. Your kitty has a complex set of issues but it seems that this local vet is willing to work with you, not against you. Give her approach some time to see if your kitty's various health concerns can be addressed in a thoughtful, careful manner. She doesn't have all the hi tech facilities and expertise to draw on but you've seen for yourself that doesn't guarantee good treatment. So much of what helps is based on kindness and compassion for both pet and owner.
 
Kris just said it well.
Your true concern right now is Apple.

I would say your local vet is weighing the options and observing.
Remember that she doesn't want to cause more harm.

When you return for next appointment, try to calmly and humbly ask " what specifically is the concern with the mannitol? My experience with
it is that it helped previously? Why do you think it won't help now? "
You can even carry the question written down on a piece of paper.

From your story, it doesn't sound like they are giving you a full explanation and I think you need that explanation to understand the treatment.
Sometimes a medication can also do harm.

I have an example for you from one of my specialists.

When we humans go to the doctor, they know that we are seeking relief from a condition ( whatever it is - pain, inflammation, etc)
If we make the appointment and seek help, they mostly feel that they need to treat that condition.
This exchange is a trade off.
Most medications have side effects, some of them are worse than the actual condition you seek help for.
I have doctors who want to give me steroids but I refuse them. It can treat the symptoms but it does nothing to help with the disease
and steroids often do more harm than good in the long run. But many doctors are pushing it .
I see it as a last resort.



This may be what the vet is doing with the mannitol. It has many problems /side effects and she doesn't want to make Apple worse.
All medications can have that possibility.


It becomes a quality of life issue....
medications that are hard on kidneys or liver are often used but the gamble is your current quality of life verses your later quality of life
and how long you will live.
Your vet ( and my doctors) knows that and have to weigh that factor in considering what to do.


many :bighug:
 
rhiannon and shadow (GA) said:
Kris just said it well.
Your true concern right now is Apple.

I would say your local vet is weighing the options and observing.
Remember that she doesn't want to cause more harm.

When you return for next appointment, try to calmly and humbly ask " what specifically is the concern with the mannitol? My experience with
it is that it helped previously? Why do you think it won't help now? "
You can even carry the question written down on a piece of paper.

From your story, it doesn't sound like they are giving you a full explanation and I think you need that explanation to understand the treatment.
Sometimes a medication can also do harm.

I have an example for you from one of my specialists.

When we humans go to the doctor, they know that we are seeking relief from a condition ( whatever it is - pain, inflammation, etc)
If we make the appointment and seek help, they mostly feel that they need to treat that condition.
This exchange is a trade off.
Most medications have side effects, some of them are worse than the actual condition you seek help for.
I have doctors who want to give me steroids but I refuse them. It can treat the symptoms but it does nothing to help with the disease
and steroids often do more harm than good in the long run. But many doctors are pushing it .
I see it as a last resort.



This may be what the vet is doing with the mannitol. It has many problems /side effects and she doesn't want to make Apple worse.
All medications can have that possibility.


It becomes a quality of life issue....
medications that are hard on kidneys or liver are often used but the gamble is your current quality of life verses your later quality of life
and how long you will live.
Your vet ( and my doctors) knows that and have to weigh that factor in considering what to do.


many :bighug:
Click to expand...
Well said!
 
Kris & Teasel said:
I'm so sorry all this has happened. I'm very glad, though, that you're connected again with your local vet. Your kitty has a complex set of issues but it seems that this local vet is willing to work with you, not against you. Give her approach some time to see if your kitty's various health concerns can be addressed in a thoughtful, careful manner. She doesn't have all the hi tech facilities and expertise to draw on but you've seen for yourself that doesn't guarantee good treatment. So much of what helps is based on kindness and compassion for both pet and owner.
Click to expand...

Echoing the wisdom and loving care expressed by Kris and Teasel, Rhiannon and shadow and others here for you and Apple.

I know that everything must feel like a ton of bricks and in trying to get medical answers and find the right meds (with minimum of or no side effects). This is another reason why I've mentioned the possibility of including good homeopathic or herbal treatment in the mix.
Sending heaps more :bighug::bighug:for you both.
Sina
 
I am relieved that your local vet is listening to you: you are no longer alone on your quest for helping Apple.
I am horrified at your experience with the university vet. Yum's sister died on the operating table of a famous veterinary surgeon, because he didn't do a full blood workup before starting the operation. He would never admit it, but my vet was shocked. I wrote it up on Yelp (without his name), mainly saying never let a surgical specialist decide if your cat is healthy enough for surgery. Yelp hid my review. At least in my state, we have very few recourses against veterinary malpractice. You should try making a report against the university vet, but I'm not sure you will get very far.

Doesn't your bill detail what was done to Apple at the university? You have a right to the results of all the tests that were run. You paid for them. That's how I figured out what happened to Yum's sister. I requested all the blood work etcetera and I did my own analysis with the help of other veterinarians.

I hope Apple starts feeling better soon and that you can relax a bit.
 
I'm sorry to hear about Yum's sister.

Right now, I don't have the wherewithal to deal with anything university. My focus is my cat, spending time with him and getting him back to who/what he was prior to the university.

I'm not sure if it's a better path to deal with the university or the liscense board. I also believe all three vets would need to be dealt with; anaesthesia, Neuro, & vet that returned him to me and I had to alert two other drs to get help.

Right now, my focus, my cat.
 
apple said:
I'm sorry to hear about Yum's sister.

Right now, I don't have the wherewithal to deal with anything university. My focus is my cat, spending time with him and getting him back to who/what he was prior to the university.

I'm not sure if it's a better path to deal with the university or the liscense board. I also believe all three vets would need to be dealt with; anaesthesia, Neuro, & vet that returned him to me and I had to alert two other drs to get help.

Right now, my focus, my cat.
Click to expand...
I would suggest you put all that on the back burner for now and just focus on your kitty as you're doing. That other stuff is too stressful and upsetting to think about right now. Let the mental/emotional "dust" settle.
 
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