7/3 Sampson AMPS 434 +6 183 - dose advice, protocol advice

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Jenn

Member Since 2015
Didn't get to a condo yesterday, the fiance went out of town leaving me alone with 5 dogs and 3 cats and no car! Lol Basically a relaxing staycation since I also have a 3 day weekend. Decided to clean the entire house last night so I could spend all 3 days relaxing with Netflix and the furious.

Anyway, spoke to the vet about Sam's has curve. She thinks we should go back up. I think it looks like he is bouncing every time he goes to the blues. Should we stay at this dose until he levels out? Thoughts?

I'm still not sure which protocol to follow. My schedule is changing to where I will work 3 days, off 1 day, work 2 days and off 1 day. Sun-ties then thurs&fri. I can bring him to work with me easily Sunday but the other 4 days are 12 hour days. It worries me that he will be alone those 4 days for 12 hours.

7/1 condo: http://www.felinediabetes.com/FDMB/...421-insulin-an-hour-late.140332/#post-1447533
 
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It looks like Sampson is bouncing from the blues. I've learned with Furball that a small dose increase can help level out her numbers. It might be worth a try to increase Sampson's dose to see if it helps flatten him out. You can modify one of the protocols to fit your schedule. I use a modified SLGS protocol because I don't like increasing Furball's dose when I'll be at work all day. I changed the number she has to reach to earn a reduction from 90 to 50.
 
I'd go back up to 1.0u. Even though you skipped the shot a couple of nights ago, there is lots of evidence that the 0.75u can't get him into green. The way to stop the bouncing is to "keep showing them the green." Eventually a cat's body realizes that green numbers are normal numbers and it will *hopefully* stop bouncing.

Sounds like what might work for you is to be more conservative during your work week and more agressive on the weekends. Have you read the sticky on how to manage following Tight Regulation when you work full-time? Those suggestions may help regardless of which dosing protocol you follow. I think even working full time, since you have phases where you test a lot, that you can do TR.

If you look at other people's spreadsheets, you'll see there are many people who can't test during the day time cycle, but get more tests in the pm cycle. They make sure their cat has access to food during the day. It might mean that you have to isolate Sampson with a timed feeder, or just food left out if he will graze, to make sure he can get food in the middle of the day cycle.
 
I like SLGS because I am not able to test as much and I want him I be safe but I do want remission for him. I'm kind of worried that he will never be regulated with all this bouncing, I can't afford to keep him and I'm not sure I could find an adopter if he is constantly on a trampoline. With earning a reduction at 50 instead of 90, that means that she is closer to remission instead of just coasting along on insulin, right?
 
I'm looking in to timed feeders but it will have to wait until my next paycheck. I can separate him easily, thats no problem. I doubt he will graze at all. Matter of fact if the meat isn't in large enough chunks or in the slow feeder bowl he will eat it so fast he just throws it right back up. Lol
 
Hmm, I'm not sure exactly what you mean by:
With earning a reduction at 50 instead of 90, that means that she is closer to remission instead of just coasting along on insulin, right?

The way to get to remission, if it's possible for a particular cat, is to get their blood sugar back into normal range as quickly as possible after diagnosis. Having the blood sugar in normal range (called euglycemic) is the definition of tightly regulated. Time is of the essence in it, because the longer a cat has high numbers, the more damage is done to their pancreas' beta cells. If the cells aren't too damaged, they can heal and begin putting out insulin again. Not all cats are going to be able to get into remission, but even if a cat doesn't get there, getting them into normal range protects the rest of their body from the damages of high blood sugar.

I've seen a few cats become flat in blue numbers, but by far most seem to need to get into green numbers in order to stop bouncing. That means giving them enough insulin to get them into that range. The part below that I bolded and highlighted with blue says that most remission cats are able to stay 50-80 without insulin - to get them to stay there without insulin, you have to get them there WITH insulin first. Not sure if that makes sense, so if not, let me know.

I'm not well-versed on SLGS. It wasn't in regular use when I started and had mostly been replaced by Tight Reg. I have never figured out how a cat that gets reductions in dose at 90 can go into remission. I've heard that it did happen, but I haven't seen it. I'd assume that would only be on a very newly diagnosed cat. Perhaps someone with more experience with SLGS will help you on that question.

I just posted this part on remission from the Tight Reg page for someone else, so it's still ready to paste - here ya go:

  • Since 2006 we've encouraged those practicing Tight Regulation to attempt reducing the dose from 0.25u to 0.1u before stopping insulin completely. During a two week OTJ trial, you want to see mostly green numbers (under 100) with only a few random blue numbers between 100 - 120 to help ensure a strong remission.
Remission:
  • From Tilly's Diabetes Homepage:
    Phase 5: Remission

    "14 days without insulin and normal blood glucose values. Most remission cats are able to stay in the normal range all of the time (50 to 80 mg/dl), although there are a few cases of sporadic higher and lower BGs. Don't stop feeding low-carb and try to avoid cortisone if possible. Test the cat's BGs once per month.

    Approximately 25% cats that achieved remission using this protocol relapsed and required insulin again (frequent causes are hyperthyroidism or bouts of pancreatitis). Therefore, it is important to keep your diabetes kit up-to-date. Then you can react immediately by giving insulin and home testing. Importantly, the sooner you react to a relapse (i.e. preventing hyperglycemia and initiating other necessary veterinary treatment), the more likely a second remission will become.

    The longer a cat has had diabetes, the less likely it will go into remission. Many long-term diabetics get stuck in Phase 3 or 4. Yet there is a benefit of using this method for such a cat as well: keeping the cat's BG levels as normal as possible is much healthier for it long term. Insulin requirements will often decrease to very low levels too."
  • Glycemic Status and Predictors of Relapse for Diabetic Cats in Remission
Does that help answer your questions?
 
Yes it does! Ok, think I will go up to 1u starting tonight and then monitor for the next few days while I'm home. I'll monitor and try feeding during the day tomorrow (suggestions on time?). Come Monday I need to have an exact plan, I can instruct my brother to feed during the day at specific times but he doesn't really know how to test.

Two questions: On second thought should I maybe go up to 1u tomorrow morning so that he doesn't go low at night and then bounce during the day? Will mid day feeding mean he also needs a mid night feeding as well?
 
I'm looking in to timed feeders but it will have to wait until my next paycheck. I can separate him easily, thats no problem. I doubt he will graze at all. Matter of fact if the meat isn't in large enough chunks or in the slow feeder bowl he will eat it so fast he just throws it right back up. Lol
I have an extra that I can give you. Send me your address in a "conversation".
 
Sounds like my kind of weekend, and I would have do the same thing by doing all the household chores so I didn't have to worry about the all weekend. I wish I had done that today, so I would at least be able to do the Netflix thing tomorrow and Sunday.

I agree that you probably should go back up in dose. Sampson has been on this dose for awhile and there was only one day that you got even remotely close to green numbers and even then not even in the normal range.
 
I think I got scared when the curve was so low because who knows what was happening ask those days when I was at work. Now I understand that I was right there!
 
I will start with 1u tomorrow and start feeding during the day. His nadir seems to be about +5, when should I feed him?
 
When you feed is going to be something that you'll want to play with and see what works best for Sampson.

Punkin's nadir was around +5.5, and I fed him 1 can of fancy feast with his shot, and 1/2 can at +3. That seemed to be enough to help flatten out the early part of the cycle.

The general idea is to provide food before the nadir so that the blood sugar is kept up a bit.

Have you looked at the sticky on working full time while following Tight Reg?
 
I have read that sticky before and just reread it. This morning was a bust. Sampson was unusually uncooperative and I got a fur shot. Ugh! Then he kept going through the trash and then all the dogs thought it was wrestle mania time. Lol will try again this pm, I can stay up and monitor if needed. Have more As on feeding on the new condo. :)
 
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