7/29 Bob PMPS=336 hepatic something or other??

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Lkldcatlady

Lkldcatlady

Member Since 2013
yesterday's condo

Good morning all!

Well, I thought I was going to have a rougher night than I did. Whew! Not quite sure why Bob went down and then way back up - I guess it's a bounce? I have illegally reduced his insulin because I seriously can't take any more nights or days like the few I had last week. Deb, you can take away the BOS award if you want. If I need to take him back up, I will, but I'd like to see what happens.

His appy is not that great. I don't think it's actually his appetite, I think he just doesn't want the canned food. When his BG is higher, he eats it with no problem. I separated him from Hector and Penelope today because I want to see what he eats. I'm a little worried he's not eating enough calories. He doesn't look like he's losing weight, but still. What is the condition when they don't eat - Hepatic Lipidosis or something like that??? Does that only happen when they don't eat at all or when they don't eat enough?

Well, I'm going to try and focus on work today! Lots to do!

Prayers for all today because I think we all need them!!!!

Have a great day!
 
The condition is hepatic lipidosis. One site indicated that a cat that's eating half of the normal amount of food for a 2 week period is at increased risk for developing HL.
 
ok, that concerns me. I don't think Bob is eating nearly enough compared to the calories he was getting with dry food. I think he's lucky to get in about 200 calories a day if we are lucky. what should I do if he continues like this??
 
I would continue searching for cans he likes. Mine does the same thing with the not eating. ( and she's in remission)
I limit her to the ones on my shortcut list but she only will eat about 4 different ones right now. I just keep trying and rotating.
 
Thanks Rhiannon - problem with him is one day he likes it and the next he doesnt. Yesterday I had 4 different foods out - some had catnip, some had parm cheese, it was a mess. turns out he really likes parm cheese, but will not eat it on the food. The catnip he tries to get it out of the food with his paw. ARGHHHH! I thought he really liked the weruva, but now he's walking away from that too. What do I need to watch for? Think I'd rather just feed him dry and treat the diabetes forever than have him deal with liver issues....
 
Hi guys .. I sure hope that bob decides to eat some more food for you .. My GA Bandit developed hepatic lipidosis and it was very hard on her .. we had to syringe feed her for about a week but she never recovered from it .. of course she was 15 years old at the time and had gone for cancer removal about a year prior .. but still not something you want to mess with ..
 
What's Bob's optimal weight? According to Dr. Lisa's formula, if he falls between the optimal weight for a male cat, he should be eating somewhere between 220 and 250 cals a day. Since he is indoor and maybe less than active, I think if he's eating about 200 calories he's not that far off from what his intake should be.
 
I actually have that problem too. ( and mine loves wet food, she just loved her pre-FD friskies shreds - the high carb)
I always have 6 different cans open in the fridge and usually have to give up and throw them away because she prefers fresh open canned.
I wouldn't give up yet.

Have you tried the fortiflora?
fancy feast appetizers?
raw?
just crumbling a few of his kibbles on his food?
 
In a presentation at the Midwest Veterinary Expo last spring, Dr Center indicated that 2 or more days without eating could trigger hepatic lipidosis.

The fat moves from storage to the liver, congests the liver cells, the swelling blocks bile drainage, the cat becomes jaundiced and digestion is deranged.

Feline Hepatic Lipidosis by Sharon A. Center, DVM College of Veterinary Medicine, Cornell University, PO Box 33, Ithaca, NY 14853
 
Dara, You said yesterday that he ate about 6 ounces. That 6 ounces a day is all my 12 pound 4 ounce civie Monet eats. He maintains his weight up or down a bit a few ounces here or there. He looks skinnier than I am used to but the vet said that 12 pounds is an ideal weight for him.

Because Bob's BG's are not running as high any more, he will not be as hungry. Bob can process the food better as he has the supplemental insulin to help him digest the food. Wink's appetite dropped off from about 11-12 ounces of wet food a day down to 6-7 ounces now. Wink also lost 2 pounds with the switch from dry to wet food.

Bob is processing the food better now and will not need to eat as much.

So, is it that the insulin is working better for Bob and you are just not used to him eating this little amount of food? Or is he truly losing weight rapidly?

You might want to look at thisCat Body Condition Score info and see where Bob falls on it. With 60% of our cats overweight here in the US, we are used to seeing plump kitties and thinking it's ok for them. Carrying around extra weight makes all the organs work harder and is no better for cats then it is for people.
 
I agree you need to figure out what Bob's ideal weight is. Then figure on 20 to 30 calories per pound of the ideal body weight, depending on how active he is. Getting an infant scale is a good idea. Check the thrift stores and Craig's list for good buys.

Remember that the volume of food is not as important as the calories he takes in, better quality foods generally have higher calories per ounce so you can feed less.

This is from Dr. Lisa's sit regarding HL:
Hepatic lipidosis (HL) is a life-threatening condition that can occur when a cat is either completely anorexic (not eating anything) for 48 hours or more or is consuming less than 50% of his daily caloric needs over several/many days.
Click to expand...
 
He's just not eating very much. I'm guessing on the 6 ounces - i hope it's that much. I have 3 cats - I've been putting out a total of 16-20 ounces of food a day and I throw away at least half of it. Penelope and Hector I see eat several times and they sit at the bowl and spend a few minutes eating. Bob will lick it then walk away. Or maybe eat one piece and walk away. Or just sniff it and walk away. I can tell he's lost some weight. I separated the kitties today and put out 3 kinds of food for Bob. Went home at noon and he had not touched any of them. If I walk in the kitchen he runs after me so I know he's hungry. I gave him some Young Again while I was there and he inhaled it. It's like he's starving but refuses to eat the canned food. At first it seemed like he would be ok with it, now I just don't know. He is doing so well, and I just don't know what to do. I've brought every kind of food I can think of and he doesn't want it! The only think that might work is to feed him tuna exclusively, but that doesn't seem really healthy either. Always something.... :cry:
 
rhiannon and shadow said:
I actually have that problem too. ( and mine loves wet food, she just loved her pre-FD friskies shreds - the high carb)
I always have 6 different cans open in the fridge and usually have to give up and throw them away because she prefers fresh open canned.
I wouldn't give up yet.

Have you tried the fortiflora?
fancy feast appetizers?
raw?
just crumbling a few of his kibbles on his food?
Click to expand...

Hey Rhiannon - I've tried everything except the raw. I can try, I just can't imagine him accepting that either. I take that back - I tried the one that petco carries - in the refrigerator section. None of the kitties would eat that one, but I know they have others.
 
Hi Dara-
Bummer that Bob is such a picky eater. I'm wondering if he is just getting so overwhelmed by all the different flavors and options. I am probably in the minority here but our guy only eats one flavor. He is also a grazer. We put the food down and he may lick it once and then walk away. He'll go back and 'snack' a few more times. Sometimes he will inhale it within an hour, other days, he'll still have some sitting out in 4 hrs. Yest he was finishing it up after 10 hrs. Ewww. Yes, I know it sounds gross as we give him raw but he seems to be fine with it and has not had any issues. I just wonder how much he is picking up on your stress.

If you consider Raw: Felines Price, Radcat and Nature's Variety Instinct Raw are good options after all the research I did (and since I don't want to or have time to make it per catinfo.org). I don't think there are any local places for you to get Radcat but here's the link for NV Instinct Raw (they have a coupon) or Felines Pride.

I so hope Bob gets this all figured out, and stops his 'brattiness.' :YMHUG: to you. And at least you are able to get some work done!

Hang in there. Karen
 
GregFurBall said:
Hi Dara-
Bummer that Bob is such a picky eater. I'm wondering if he is just getting so overwhelmed by all the different flavors and options. I am probably in the minority here but our guy only eats one flavor. He is also a grazer. We put the food down and he may lick it once and then walk away. He'll go back and 'snack' a few more times. Sometimes he will inhale it within an hour, other days, he'll still have some sitting out in 4 hrs. Yest he was finishing it up after 10 hrs. Ewww. Yes, I know it sounds gross as we give him raw but he seems to be fine with it and has not had any issues. I just wonder how much he is picking up on your stress.

If you consider Raw: Felines Price, Radcat and Nature's Variety Instinct Raw are good options after all the research I did (and since I don't want to or have time to make it per catinfo.org). I don't think there are any local places for you to get Radcat but here's the link for NV Instinct Raw (they have a coupon) or Felines Pride.

I so hope Bob gets this all figured out, and stops his 'brattiness.' to you. And at least you are able to get some work done!

Hang in there. Karen
Click to expand...

Thanks Karen - at first I was giving him the same two canned foods twice a day and he would eat one day and not the other. Then I thought maybe he doesn't really like it so I thought I would try more. I'm sure the poor little guy is picking up on my stress. I didnt want to give him the YA, but I didn't think I have much of a choice at this point. Sigh. I'm just so disappointed that we've done so well this far and now this big ol' roadblock. I shall keep trying and see what happens. I'll do what i can do! :smile:
 
GregFurBall said:
Hi Dara-
Bummer that Bob is such a picky eater. I'm wondering if he is just getting so overwhelmed by all the different flavors and options. I am probably in the minority here but our guy only eats one flavor. He is also a grazer. We put the food down and he may lick it once and then walk away. He'll go back and 'snack' a few more times. Sometimes he will inhale it within an hour, other days, he'll still have some sitting out in 4 hrs. Yest he was finishing it up after 10 hrs. Ewww. Yes, I know it sounds gross as we give him raw but he seems to be fine with it and has not had any issues. I just wonder how much he is picking up on your stress.

If you consider Raw: Felines Price, Radcat and Nature's Variety Instinct Raw are good options after all the research I did (and since I don't want to or have time to make it per catinfo.org). I don't think there are any local places for you to get Radcat but here's the link for NV Instinct Raw (they have a coupon) or Felines Pride.

I so hope Bob gets this all figured out, and stops his 'brattiness.' to you. And at least you are able to get some work done!

Hang in there. Karen
Click to expand...

Thanks Karen - at first I was giving him the same two canned foods twice a day and he would eat one day and not the other. Then I thought maybe he doesn't really like it so I thought I would try more. I'm sure the poor little guy is picking up on my stress. I didnt want to give him the YA, but I didn't think I have much of a choice at this point. Sigh. I'm just so disappointed that we've done so well this far and now this big ol' roadblock. I shall keep trying and see what happens. I'll do what i can do! :smile:
 
I tried all the more "common" raw foods and the one that got Shadow's attention ( altho' it's still a challenge with her) is Primal. http://www.primalpetfoods.com/
They have raw turkey and Shadow gets so tired of chicken after the first serving. I can't get her to eat any raw chicken unless I just go buy some and cut her off a hunk but then she doesn't get all the nutrition she needs.
There is a locator on the website so you can figure out who sells it near you.
I have some of the Radcat and she won't touch that one. :roll:


At least Bob will eat the YA. I thought he didn't like it at all. If he's not going to transition, that's the best one for that problem.
You should look at the packaging for that one because it's high calorie and from what I remember on their website, a daily serving is like 2 Tablespoons a day so Bob wouldn't eat much or need much of it.

Maybe what you need is a scale to monitor his weight.
I'm about to get one myself for mine.
 
He wouldn't eat the YA before while he was on his regular dry. He's probably just glad it's not canned. Tonight I put it down for him and he's giving me the eye, so Im already getting a little worried.

I got the fortiflora and tried it tonight. He really liked the smell, but he still didn't want the food. He would try to lick the edges of the bowl and when that didn't work, he gave up. i'm so depressed. I felt like we were getting so close to possibly being OTJ....now I have no idea what's going to happen...
 
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