7/26 Spooky AMBG 63; PMPS 294

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koala kim

Member Since 2012
I apologize in advance for posting on this board and not the relaxed board. It was suggested I post on the Lantus about an hour before Spooky is due for his evening shot to get some feedback.

A little background- Spooky started Lantus 07/16, 1u twice a day. As much as I would love to follow the tight regulation, our job schedules do not allow it. We are still getting the hang of testing, and will be doing his 1st curve at home Sunday.

This is a cross post from the Health board:


For the first time since we've been keeping track, Spooky was below 100; 63 to be exact.

My husband and I were both happy to see such a low number. His appetite was fine. :smile:

I told Hubbs I was going to hold Spooky's insulin. Just to make sure though, I called the vet. Well, *that* was fun. I actually talked to a vet tech, which was fine. When I explained the situation, and said I just wanted to double check that holding his insulin was the right thing to do, she asked about the glucometer- if it was a 'pet' glucometer. When I told her no, she said we really needed one. I answered back with I am using one that multiple people with diabetic cats use and they have not had a problem (Relion Micro). She then said "Well, we have found that people glucometers can be off by 15-20 points." I answered with "Okay- so he would still be in the normal range. ohmygod_smile Do I hold the insulin?" She said yes, and advised us to test again tonight.

I forgot to ask the tech, so am asking here- if (and it's just a slight "if" I would think) his numbers are say, in the 100's- would I still give him insulin tonight? Or perhaps half a dose? Or hold off again?
Or should I wait until we actually do the test tonight, post his number if it's in the 100's and ask then?

Thanks in advance!
 
Re: Spooky's AMPS 63 This Morning; What to Do Tonight?

Hi Spooky's mom, welcome to LantusLand! I'm not a dosing expert but someone will come along who is. Does the "hold" in Spooky's spreadsheet this morning mean that you did not give a shot? The minimum recommended testing is a pre-shot test and one midcycle test (morning and night), so that's 4 tests per day. You should get a test now and post that so the experts can see that data.
Liz, Zener's other mom
 
Re: Spooky's AMPS 63 This Morning; What to Do Tonight?

Thank you for the welcome Anne.

Yes, 'hold' means no shot this morning. Wasn't sure how to label it on the SS.
Okay- we're going to test right now. Will be back with results.
 
Re: Spooky's AMPS 63 This Morning; What to Do Tonight?

If you make the AB column wider in the spreadsheet, that will make the rows smaller and generally easier to read. You go to the very top and put the mouse on the line between AB and AC and it will turn into a double-headed arrow. Click and drag.
Liz
 
Re: Spooky's AMPS 63 This Morning; What to Do Tonight?

Thanks for the tip. I'm not very spreadsheet savvy, I'm afraid. I'll fix it as soon as I get to the desktop. :)

His reading right now is 294.
 
Re: Spooky's AMPS 63 This Morning; What to Do Tonight?

Good job! Testing will get easier. Be sure to give Spooky a treat and lots of petting.

I think you are ok to shoot the 1.0u. Be sure to get another test before bed, maybe a +3?

Can you update the subject line of the first post with
7/26 Spooky AMBG 63; PMPS 294

AMBG is AM Blood Glucose and that means there was no shot. That will let everyone know at a glance what is going on with Spooky today.

I hope you can post of picture some time. Is he white?
Liz
 
Re: Spooky's AMBG 63 This Morning; PMPS 294

Thank you for the fast reply Liz! (now that I see that is your name LOL)

I can try to give him another test at +3, but it will not be easy. It still takes two of us, and he was none too happy with the extra testing tonight! There will only be 1 person around at the +3 mark.

Spooky is a black kitty. He is 12 years old, and a big boy. <3 Not as big as he was once, but still a little hefty. :smile:
 
Re: Spooky's AMPS 63 This Morning; What to Do Tonight?

I remember reading in someone's condo (that's what we call a thread, because we live here :roll: ) that their kitty purred through the test and I thought there was no way that would ever happen with Zener. But, amazingly enough, he has done that a few times. It will get easier. Make sure you are relaxed and calm and have positive thoughts about it. Tell him that you want to get him to feeling better. It's just a little sting and it is a great help for you to treat Spooky. I like black cats! They are so handsome. :-D
Liz
 
Re: Spooky's AMPS 63 This Morning; What to Do Tonight?

welcome! it gets infinitely easier to test as you both get experience with it! just hang in there and you'll be very glad. we had to burrito wrap punkin in a beach towel for the first couple of weeks, but now he just sits next to me on the sofa. i do sit near one sofa arm so that he doesn't have a lot of wiggle room and that helps.

it was probably a good call to skip the shot this morning. it takes a while to gather information and then be safe to shoot lower numbers. this morning did tell you he's having a good response to the insulin! wahoo!

as far as the glucometers, we've found that an alpha-trak, which is specifically for pets, is about 30 pts higher than a human glucometer like the Relion. the difference tends to be less in lower numbers and can be more in greater numbers. if you take a look at the Tight Reg protocol (which, btw, isn't hard to follow and has a great success rate for cats going OTJ, especially with newly diagnosed cats) you'll see that the guidelines are given for both human and alphatrak meters. on here, most of us use human meters and if people are using an AT, they say so! a majority of the numbers you see posted on people's subject lines are human meters unless they say AT.

i'd encourage you to read the yellow starred stickies at the top of this page. they are full of great information to help you manage Spooky! a good place to start is the one "New to the Group?"

edited to fix that! thanks Liz!
 
Re: Spooky's AMPS 63 This Morning; What to Do Tonight?

We used the AlphaTrak for a long time (8 months) then switched to the human meter. I am really glad we switched. The strips are about 1/3 the cost and the human meter sucks up the blood easier. Correction though: the AlphaTrak reads 30 points HIGHER than the human meter.
Liz
 
Re: Spooky's AMPS 63 This Morning; What to Do Tonight?

Anne & Zener said:
I remember reading in someone's condo (that's what we call a thread, because we live here :roll: ) that their kitty purred through the test and I thought there was no way that would ever happen with Zener. But, amazingly enough, he has done that a few times. It will get easier. Make sure you are relaxed and calm and have positive thoughts about it. Tell him that you want to get him to feeling better. It's just a little sting and it is a great help for you to treat Spooky. I like black cats! They are so handsome. :-D
Liz
Click to expand...

Yay Zener!!! :-D

Spooky will purr while I'm warming his ear. Once that glucometer beeps, he starts getting jumpy. Tonight, he flattened his ears, which he has never done before. :roll: He didn't growl or anything. It was his way of trying to keep me from his ears. Once I had the blood, he was outta there! :lol:

We do give him a treat, but he wanted none of that tonight, thankyouverymuch.

We have two black cats; Mr. Spooky and Miss Voodoo. We also have a Maine Coon, Mr. Bear (but we call him BearBear. big cuddle bug. until he starts kneading you to death LOL). They are all seniors; Spooky & Voodoo are 12, and we're not sure about BearBear. He had lived in the neighborhood for years before he finally made his way to our house and hearts. All of our cats are from the streets. Voodoo was half feral. It took a lot of time and work before she would trust us, even though she lived in the house with us.

I will try to post a picture of at least Spooky. He likes to turn his head when you try to take a picture. :roll:
And yes- black cats are gorgeous, and lovable. I wish people weren't so superstitious. They are missing out on some beautiful cats.


julie & punkin said:
welcome! it gets infinitely easier to test as you both get experience with it! just hang in there and you'll be very glad. we had to burrito wrap punkin in a beach towel for the first couple of weeks, but now he just sits next to me on the sofa. i do sit near one sofa arm so that he doesn't have a lot of wiggle room and that helps.

it was probably a good call to skip the shot this morning. it takes a while to gather information and then be safe to shoot lower numbers. this morning did tell you he's having a good response to the insulin! wahoo!

as far as the glucometers, we've found that an alpha-trak, which is specifically for pets, is about 30 pts higher than a human glucometer like the Relion. the difference tends to be less in lower numbers and can be more in greater numbers. if you take a look at the Tight Reg protocol (which, btw, isn't hard to follow and has a great success rate for cats going OTJ, especially with newly diagnosed cats) you'll see that the guidelines are given for both human and alphatrak meters. on here, most of us use human meters and if people are using an AT, they say so! a majority of the numbers you see posted on people's subject lines are human meters unless they say AT.

i'd encourage you to read the yellow starred stickies at the top of this page. they are full of great information to help you manage Spooky! a good place to start is the one "New to the Group?"

edited to fix that! thanks Liz!
Click to expand...
Thank you for the welcome Julie!

We had a Punkin kitty. She was my "soul kitty" <3

That what my husband does; wraps Spooky up like a burrito. Spooky is not amused. :shock:

The Alpha-Trak is the one the vet suggested we buy. But the price is a little off-putting. It was suggested to me on the Health board to look at Relion glucometers. Could not be happier with the Micro. The amount of blood needed is so small. I don't feel so much like I'm "bleeding" poor Spook, trying to get a sample. :lol:

I bought an ebook written by a vet that describes tight regulation. It seems like you would have to test quite a few times each day. Is that correct? With our work schedules, there isn't a good way for us to test every 3 or 4 hours, unfortunately.

That's why I'm going to attempt the curve test Sunday, as it is the only day we will both be here to test.

If there was a way to test more often, I would do it. I would love to have Spooky on tight regulation. It just makes sense.

I will read the stickies. I have been trying to read everything, but there is so much to take in! It sometimes seems overwhelming.

@ Liz- Aha! The vet tech did say there was a 15-20 point difference, but she made it sound like the 'person' glucometer was the culprit, with a higher reading.
 
It IS overwhelming, no doubt about that. I wouldn't believe you if you said, FD, no problem. :lol: :lol: You are doing great and you'll pick things up as you go along. Be sure and post your questions. Someone will probably have some ideas about what works and what to avoid. This place is amazing. What is the e-book?
Liz
ETA: You should definitely get a pre-shot test every time. Then get an out the door test in the morning and a just before bed test at night. That will tell you a ton of info. Then if you can get a couple extra tests on the weekend, you'll be in good shape. Did you see the YouTube video with Buddy? That was very helpful to us.
 
Anne & Zener said:
It IS overwhelming, no doubt about that. I wouldn't believe you if you said, FD, no problem. :lol: :lol: You are doing great and you'll pick things up as you go along. Be sure and post your questions. Someone will probably have some ideas about what works and what to avoid. This place is amazing. What is the e-book?
Liz
ETA: You should definitely get a pre-shot test every time. Then get an out the door test in the morning and a just before bed test at night. That will tell you a ton of info. Then if you can get a couple extra tests on the weekend, you'll be in good shape. Did you see the YouTube video with Buddy? That was very helpful to us.
Click to expand...
Whew! Glad to know I'm not the only one to feel overwhelmed! :-D

This place truly is amazing. :-D
I have learned so much in such a short time. And obviously need to learn a lot more.

Okay, evidently I am getting myself confused (too much reading; only so many brain cells to absorb it all :oops: ). The e-book, while a wonderful source, and the first place I learned about feeding low carb canned and has a chapter on diabetes- does not talk about tight regulation. ohmygod_smile She does mention PZI & Lantus as good choices, with PZI being her insulin of choice. The e-book is "Your Cat: Simple New Secrets to a Longer, Stronger Life". Bought it on Amazon.

It was while reading up more on the low carb canned plan for kitties I found FD. Up until the time it was first suggested Spooky might be diabetic (june 23rd), we free fed Orijen dry with canned as a treat. The same day the vet did the 1st glucose test, I came home and started hitting the Internet. I bought lots of FF classic & EVO 95% (we also now feed Stella & Chewy's in addition to FF & Evo. They all *adore* it). I had hoped Spooky's BG would drop enough by just the change in diet that he would not have to start insulin.

I learned that Lantus seems to work the best for most cats, and, if the vet had not suggested it herself, I was prepared to suggest it.

Spooky's morning shot is so close to my leaving time for work, I'm not sure how helpful the info from that test would be. :-|

We can test him at least twice tomorrow, and hopefully- I can get the extra tests (or at least one of them) you have suggested Saturday. His first curve test will be Sunday. The vet had suggested a preshot, a +6, and a +12 test, but I am thinking a few more tests in between would be better?

Buddy's video was *the* video I made my husband watch!

I should add I was freaking out about food last week. When I had originally asked the vet about feeding, she had said the dry I was feeding would be fine. After the next visit, when I told her we had switched to all wet, I again asked about a feeding schedule. Her answer was "We can work around a schedule", which was no answer at all. So I was winging it. Someone on the Health board suggested freezing some cat food and putting it out. Genius! :mrgreen:

This week, I am taking a more relaxed approached, making sure there is a little wet as well as a frozen puck or two left out overnight/while I'm at work.

Spooky seems to be more relaxed now that he knows there is food available. Heck, when I came home Wed., they were all snoozing, and none of them greeted me at the door with the "feed me!" cry. :lol: They didn't even bother to wake up until I was home for about an hour. Even then- no one was hungry.
 
I'm glad you made it over here. There's no need to apologize for not posting on Relaxed. To be honest, there are a number of people here who follow the Start Low Go Slow (SLGS) approach. There's a great deal more traffic on this board. Most of the time, there's someone around 24/7 or close to.

With the TR protocol, in the beginning it's helpful to test at pre-shot, +3, +6 and +9. However, what is important is to always get a pre-shot test since this tells you whether it's safe to shoot and to do what you can to get at least one spot check per cycle. Lantus dosing is based on the nadir, not on pre-shot values so those spot checks can give you a great deal of information. Curves can be helpful with regard to figuring out when onset and nadir are and how much duration you're getting. Spot checks can give you just as much information and may be easier on the schedule.

I would strongly encourage you to get at least one test during the PM cycle. Many cats experience lower numbers at night. For example, I suspect that Spooky was seeing some green numbers last night. In addition, if you don't test at night, you're missing half of your data. If you and your DH are gone during the day, it's even more important to get a couple of tests in during the evening.

The initial several weeks of managing your kitty's diabetes are completely overwhelming. The front end of the learning curve is thoroughly overwhelming. We've all been there. The good news is that it gets easier. The people here are very generous with their time and information. Please let us know if you have questions. People are more than willing to help.
 
Sienne and Gabby said:
I'm glad you made it over here. There's no need to apologize for not posting on Relaxed. To be honest, there are a number of people here who follow the Start Low Go Slow (SLGS) approach. There's a great deal more traffic on this board. Most of the time, there's someone around 24/7 or close to.

With the TR protocol, in the beginning it's helpful to test at pre-shot, +3, +6 and +9. However, what is important is to always get a pre-shot test since this tells you whether it's safe to shoot and to do what you can to get at least one spot check per cycle. Lantus dosing is based on the nadir, not on pre-shot values so those spot checks can give you a great deal of information. Curves can be helpful with regard to figuring out when onset and nadir are and how much duration you're getting. Spot checks can give you just as much information and may be easier on the schedule.

I would strongly encourage you to get at least one test during the PM cycle. Many cats experience lower numbers at night. For example, I suspect that Spooky was seeing some green numbers last night. In addition, if you don't test at night, you're missing half of your data. If you and your DH are gone during the day, it's even more important to get a couple of tests in during the evening.

The initial several weeks of managing your kitty's diabetes are completely overwhelming. The front end of the learning curve is thoroughly overwhelming. We've all been there. The good news is that it gets easier. The people here are very generous with their time and information. Please let us know if you have questions. People are more than willing to help.
Click to expand...
Thank you for the welcome Sienne!

Lantus dosing is based on the nadir- good to know. :smile:
By spot check, do you mean any time out of the normal recommended times, such as +2 or +8?

We will definitely try for at least 1 late PM test Saturday night. I admit- it will be interesting to see how Spooky's numbers look at, say- 3am.

It is overwhelming. I had never heard of diabetes in cats until the vet suggested Spooky might be diabetic.

I appreciate all the information I have found here so far. And it is extremely reassuring to know if I have a question, especially at night, there will be someone who can help. :smile:
 
I think by spot check, Sienne means at least one time in the cycle, in addition to the pre-shot test. So any test some time during the cycle is good. Of course, more tests give you more data. Hopefully, Spooky will be rather flat and you won't need lots of tests, once you figure out his pattern. Then again, he's a cat so you almost have to expect the unexpected. Zener is particularly unpredicable so we test him a lot. Poor guy, he is a total trooper about it all. But like he told me on New Year's Eve, "more petting, less worry". That's my resolution for the year. :-D
Liz
 
Anne & Zener said:
I think by spot check, Sienne means at least one time in the cycle, in addition to the pre-shot test. So any test some time during the cycle is good. Of course, more tests give you more data. Hopefully, Spooky will be rather flat and you won't need lots of tests, once you figure out his pattern. Then again, he's a cat so you almost have to expect the unexpected. Zener is particularly unpredicable so we test him a lot. Poor guy, he is a total trooper about it all. But like he told me on New Year's Eve, "more petting, less worry". That's my resolution for the year. :-D
Liz
Click to expand...
Thanks! We might be able to spot check on the weekend. I hope. :?

That is a wonderful New Year's resolution. :smile:
 
In addition to your pre-shot tests, spot checks can be when you come in the door from work, before you leave the house, before you go to sleep, when you get up to go to the refrigerator for a snack, when you wake up in the middle of the night to use the facilities, etc. Basically try to get tests to begin to fill in the blanks. If you have an unshootable pre-shot number, chances are Spooky's numbers are low overnight. You don't know if he was surfing in the 60s or in the 20s. This could be very dangerous.

You vet telling you to test only twice a day does not suggest he understands how Lantus works. If he's basing his dosing recommendations on your pre-shot numbers, there's a good chance you will end up overdosing your cat. As I mentioned above, Lantus dosing is based on the nadir.
 
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