? 7/24 Walter, AMPS 303, +8 56, +9 72, +10.5 113, PMPS 114 / Mandarin AMBG 210, +9 239 :(

[Mandarin'sMom]

Yesterday's condo

210 I am so upset about Mandarin's number, I don't even know what to say. To make matters even worse: I am pretty sure that this is totally my fault. Ever since I took my foster kittens home, the shelter vet has been telling me that they need dry food. To be more specific: they want all kittens to be on Purina Kitten Chow (=Corn Gluten Meal and Brewers Rice as two of the main ingredients). Needless to say, that was not an option.

Instead, the kits have been eating canned food (mostly FF kitten and the other FF and Friskies Pates that my adult cats eat), but I am having the hardest time getting them to gain weight. They keep getting diarrhea, Iris is still congested, and they are just not as healthy as they should be. After 6 weeks of listening to the dry food speech, I went out and bought a bag of EVO (which is supposed to be low carb and is without a doubt much healthier than the Kitten Chow).

I have been careful about keeping Walter and Mandarin out of the dry food. Luckily, Walter isn't at all interested in it, but Mandarin obsesses over dry food. Last night, Capone, my dry food addict, chewed a big hole into the bag and I can only imagine how much of it Mandarin ate over night. So I can't say that I am surprised about this morning's BG level, but I just want to kick myself for ever even bringing dry food into the house.

I feel like the worst bean ever and like I have set Mandarin up to fail. But what do I do now? Start him back on Insulin immediately? Give it a few days? The dry food has disappeared and I will make sure that he will never have access to it again.

 

[julie & punkin (ga)]

Since you know he got into the dreaded dry food contraband, I'd just wait and see what he does with his blood sugar in the next 24 hours. See if he can bring it back into normal range again.

I've been on the "pushing probiotics" bandwagon with everyone lately. I'd try them with your kittens, and even with Walter and Mandarin. Take a peek at these from the Where Can I Find? thread, specifically the last two on vomiting and probiotics. My McGee has had a huge improvement since I started giving him Renew Ultimate Colon Care 80billion, one capsule per day. He was vomiting every day - not a hairball, just yuck stuff, and he was constipated. He's stopped vomiting entirely (it's only been about 10 days, which is why I'm in the midst of the "everyone should give probiotics!" phase, lol) and his constipation is somewhat better.

Digestive Problems:

Constipation, Maggie11 & Ann; Feline Constipation
Hairballs/Chronic Vomiting
Probiotics in IBD (or other) cats​

 

[Judy and Boomer]

I can't imagine juggling all of those kitty diets!
Don't kick yourself over what happened! At least you know why Mandarin's number is high; it could be worse...it could be high with no explanation other than the obvious "kitty has come out of remission". Hopefully Mandarin's pancreas can handle it and you will see the numbers come down. I would definitely check though to make sure they do come down!

 

[Mandarin'sMom]

Thank you, @julie & punkin (ga) and @Judy and Boomer . I'll monitor his BG for a few days and will go from there... but is it possible that a cat comes out of remission with one meal of dry food? I have fed small meals of dry food since Thursday and I guess there is a chance that he got a few kibbles on and off, but not more than that until last night. I just can't believe that didn't just stick to my plan to never give dry food again.

I've been on the "pushing probiotics" bandwagon with everyone lately. I'd try them with your kittens, and even with Walter and Mandarin.

They have been on Probiotics (and Lysine for the URI) for a few weeks. I am giving them Renew Life Ultimate Flora. The vet has also run three fecals on them - all completely negative.

Oh, and the biggest irony in all of this is that the kittens don't even like the dry food!

 

[tiffmaxee]

So sorry he got into contraband but I'm banking on him going back to where his numbers belong when it's totally out of his system. Silly kitty. And don't be so hard on yourself for trying to help the kittens. My friend by east has adopted three feral and is fostering another and two have had diarrhea. It's tough to figure out tge cause unless a parasite like Max had when I got him. He was on antibiotic for months.

 

[Judy and Boomer]

Oh, and the biggest irony in all of this is that the kittens don't even like the dry food!

Well doesn't that figure! Kittens learn fast to be....well....cats!

I don't know whether one meal would bring him out of remission; I would hope not but I guess it depends on how stressed the pancreas is from it. If his pancreas is still working, the numbers should be coming down. Personally I think I would start insulin sooner rather than later if his numbers don't come down. And being a testaholic, I would be testing periodically today.

 

[Mandarin'sMom]

And being a testaholic, I would be testing periodically today.

I have been trying to get another test, but he is totally freaked out because I have been sitting around crying and then I started vacuuming up crumbs of dry food like a maniac. He is probably convinced that his bean has gone insane and is avoiding me at all cost right now.

 

[Mandarin'sMom]

It's tough to figure out tge cause unless a parasite like Max had when I got him.

So far, there are no parasites, no Giardia, no Coccidia, nothing. It also doesn't seem to be contagious (anti-jinxes) and it seems to just come and go. They have all been dewormed, have been on antibiotics, but I refused to put them on Metro. I just can't imagine doing that to a 2-pound kitten, especially without a definite diagnosis.

 

[Doodles & Karen]

((Christina)) I'm certain with Mandarins BG's that he'll recover from the contraband. You take on so much with the big heart you have. Try to go easy on yourself.

BTW - EVO changed their formula and were bought by X (can't remember). Since I stopped feeding it to Doodles his kidney values went back to normal despite the high dose of diuretics he's on.

 

[Doodles & Karen]

but I refused to put them on Metro

Thankfully, there is no need for that IMHO. I realize dry is evil but Doodles gets a little to supplement his calories and we switched to NV Instinct Chicken Meal which is 14% carbs. BTW, he's tanked to the 30's on that so it's not the food that is causing his issues.

 

[Mandarin'sMom]

BTW - EVO changed their formula and were bought by X (can't remember). Since I stopped feeding it to Doodles his kidney values went back to normal despite the high dose of diuretics he's on.

And there's yet another reason why I should have never bought it: Capone's kidneys. Well, lesson learned... and let's hope it sticks this time. I thought I had already learned the "no dry food" lesson a few years ago when Mandarin was first diagnosed.

 

[Doodles & Karen]

I thought I had already learned the "no dry food" lesson a few years ago when Mandarin was first diagnosed

I didn't know any better and will carry the guilt forever. BUT at this point I refuse to starve my cats. If I ever have new babies they will only eat raw or home cooked. Really, I'm sure Mandarin is going to be OK...might take a day or so but he's a strong lil boy with a the best mama bean.

 

[Judy and Boomer]

Walter, stop that dive! There is no need to be doing the 50s!

 

[Sienne and Gabby (GA)]

Friends of mine had a problem with their kittens and diarrhea, as well. The breeder fed dry food and they switched the kittens to a canned food diet. One of the kittens must have a very sensitive tummy since he still has problems. They ran every test i the book and tried every possible drug. (I don't know about probiotics.) It can take a while for a cat to acclimate to a diet change. When I switched Gabby to a raw diet, it took about 1 - 2 weeks for her GI system to get back to normal.

The other consideration is whether the kittens are allergic to any of the foods. Many cats are allergic to beef and seafood.

 

[Mandarin'sMom]

I didn't know any better and will carry the guilt forever. BUT at this point I refuse to starve my cats. If I ever have new babies they will only eat raw or home cooked. Really, I'm sure Mandarin is going to be OK...might take a day or so but he's a strong lil boy with a the best mama bean.

Obviously, making sure that they eat is the most important thing - but all of mine are eating canned food well (thankfully!). So this really was stupid on my part.

Walter, stop that dive! There is no need to be doing the 50s!

Yes, indeed! Apparently, he thought I wasn't quite stressed enough yet!

 

[Mandarin'sMom]

Friends of mine had a problem with their kittens and diarrhea, as well. The breeder fed dry food and they switched the kittens to a canned food diet. One of the kittens must have a very sensitive tummy since he still has problems. They ran every test i the book and tried every possible drug. (I don't know about probiotics.) It can take a while for a cat to acclimate to a diet change. When I switched Gabby to a raw diet, it took about 1 - 2 weeks for her GI system to get back to normal.

The other consideration is whether the kittens are allergic to any of the foods. Many cats are allergic to beef and seafood.

In this case, the kittens were also removed from their mom way too early - when they were dumped at the shelter, Flora and Iris only weighed 10 and 13 ounces and were probably only 3-4 weeks old. I am sure all of this has been really hard on their little bodies and their digestive system in particular. Fern (who is older) and Ivy (who wasn't found until 3 weeks later) are much healthier in general.

 

[Doodles & Karen]

When it rains it pours....hold it there Walter!

 

[carfurby (GA)]

I agree you should wait and see if Mandarin brings himself back down after the dry food is out of his system. I wouldn't automatically assume he is out of remission.

I'm sorry things are so stressful with trying to take care of the kittens and keep them healthy. You are a wonderful person to take all that on.

I hope Walter slows down and surfs safely.

 

[Wendy&Neko]

Walter, surf time not diving - that is not how to distract the bean!

I hope Mandarin's foray onto the higher floors is just a short term blip once the dry is out of his system. Poor little kittens on their tummies.

 

[Mandarin'sMom]

Managed to get another test and it's even worse - 239 Still hanging on to the hope that Mandarin's pancreas is just taking a day off, but it probably not looking too good.

...at least Walter is surfing. I don't think my nerves could have handled a real dive today.

 

[Judy and Boomer]

Well it's only been a couple of hours (I think) since you discovered that Mandarin raided the kibble so he could still be on the way up from it and hopefully will come down later. Maybe give him a few hours (if you can stop yourself from testing, being a testaholic I probably couldn't stop myself) and hopefully he'll come down. Paws crossed!!

 

[Marilyn and Sheldon]

Oh Mandarin, shake the dry outta your system and get back to the Falls! Darn contraband.

Kittens are so amazing. So fragile, yet so resilient. Lots of vines for those cute mewpers.

Marilyn and Polly

 

[Osha]

Sending vines that Mandarin's BG goes down!!

 

[Tricia Cinco(GA) & Harvey]

Remember that it does take longer to get the effects of dry food out of the system. I wouldn't stress myself out by testing too often. Maybe one more test tonight. By tomorrow you should start to see some improvement. I know it's hard, but try not to panic yet.

You have been pulled in different directions over the dry food thing, and it's no wonder you caved. I don't blame you a bit. I'm sure you are anxious to get the kittens healthy and gaining weight. Maybe if you put them back on what they were eating when you got them and gradually switched them to wet, or is that the way you did it?

Walter, I know you were just trying to take Mama's mind off of Mandarin's BGs, but that wasn't the best way to go about it. Up on your surfboard now, please.

Hang in there. This may all work out okay.

 

[Bobbie And Bubba]

Corn is another big offender for GI upset. I found that out with my two and 500 bucks later after an US etc, I realized it was the new dry food that the vet RX! Took it away and all GI issues left........

I hope Mandarin's number come down by tomorrow after the dry food episode. Hang in there!

 

[julie & punkin (ga)]

If you've got all the dry crumbs cleaned up, and they aren't getting any more, I'd think the dry food carbs ought to be worked out of her system in a day or so.

You might want to add something on the ss for today about him getting into kibble.

Can one round bring a kitty out of remission? I'm not sure, but I do remember Binks (we all loved Binks!) was given dry food by Celi's brother who was petsitting, and by the time she got back from vacation he had to go back on insulin. I don't recall how long the vacation was, but it was a normal vacation, not months or anything. In some cats remission seems to be a fragile state. Have you read the link at the bottom of the section on remission? This one is from the Tight Reg sticky:

REMISSION:
From Tilly's Diabetes Homepage, Phase 5: Remission

14 days without insulin and normal blood glucose values. Most remission cats are able to stay in the normal range all of the time (50 to 80 mg/dl), although there are a few cases of sporadic higher and lower BGs. Don't stop feeding low-carb and try to avoid cortisone if possible.

Test the cat's BGs once per month.Approximately 25% cats that achieved remission using this protocol relapsed and required insulin again (frequent causes are hyperthyroidism or bouts of pancreatitis). Therefore, it is important to keep your diabetes kit up-to-date. Then you can react immediately by giving insulin and home testing. Importantly, the sooner you react to a relapse (i.e. preventing hyperglycemia and initiating other necessary veterinary treatment), the more likely a second remission will become.

The longer a cat has had diabetes, the less likely it will go into remission. Many long-term diabetics get stuck in Phase 3 or 4. Yet there is a benefit of using this method for such a cat as well: keeping the cat's BG levels as normal as possible is much healthier for it long term. Insulin requirements will often decrease to very low levels too."


Glycemic Status and Predictors of Relapse for Diabetic Cats in Remission

My fingers, toes and eyes are crossed for good luck for you. I hope Mandarin clears out the carbs and brings his blood sugar back down. At least Walter gave you a nice cycle today. Good boy, Walter!

 

[Gill & George]

Hope the carbs work out of Mandarin's system soon. The 210 and 239 are about the same, so he's not going up, sending carb clearing vines for Mandarin.
With all the problems the kittens were having and the pressure from the vet I can certainly relate to caving in to the dry food. I hope the tummy issues resolve.

Nice greens for Walter