7/23 Shadow skipped shot.

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Re: First low amps - NEED HELP 93, +20 min 92

Hi, I'm not the best person to respond, but as you haven't had any responses, I'll just say, your cat is holding steady, not falling. There is no difference between a 93 and a 92. I expect your cat to go back up as long as he/she's eaten. Did the cat eat breakfast?
 
Re: First low amps - NEED HELP 93, +20 min 92

She ate just before 6am , it's now 8:32 where I am.

Guessing her shed is in a happy place still. I just don't know what to shoot.
Am stalling as long as I can....
 
Re: First low amps - NEED HELP 93, +20 min 92

That is the same number, meters can vary by 20%, so basically a surf. It is your call, you shot a 129 and this isn't that much lower. Stalling acts like a dose reduction so we don't really do both.

Do you have HC or MC food, if you decide to shoot I would feed that, mostly for your peace of mind. Remember that your shot schedule is going to change w/ this stall.
 
Re: First low amps - NEED HELP 93, +20 min 92 +40 min 97

So what should I shoot?

.75 feels safe and I just watch today.

If my time changes, I'll have to get back to this time frame for my work schedule. We have a trip to Albuquerque on friday.
My 16 yr old will be with her all day but I don't want her to have to deal with any difficulties. She is able to feed her and recognize
odd behaviours. She might even be able to get a bg level during the day but that is iffy.
 
Re: First low amps - NEED HELP 93, +20 min 92

Just looked at your SS again, you have been changing doses quite a bit, .5u yesterday morning, .75u last night, .9u the day before. That can result in some strange numbers. What are you considering your normal dose?
 
Re: First low amps - NEED HELP 93, +20 min 92

My vision isn't the greatest and it's really difficult to see much difference between .75 and a skinny 1 unit.
So I've been doing my best to get consistency with it.
I say .9 meaning skinny 1unit

I wish I had a syringe that showed me smaller increments.
I think our dosage should be between that .75 and 1 unit.....
 
Re: First low amps - NEED HELP 93, +20 min 92

Ah, I see from Shadow's spreadsheet that you have never had a Green at shot time before. I've been through a similar experience just recently, and it's scary. However, I found out that cats don't drop as much from a Green number as they can from a Blue number, and don't drop as much from a Blue number as they can from a Yellow, and on and on. That made me feel much better.

Definitely feed her if she'll eat, and make sure you have food left out for her. You should see an effect on BG about 2 hours after a meal. So, the 92 is the result of her breakfast.

At this point after your stall, if you give a Big Chicken Shot (10% of the normal shot amount) or you skip the shot, you'll be effectively giving her even less insulin than if you shot a reduced dose at the normal time. However, if you can only come home once, there's no harm in being a Big Chicken except that you are almost "there" in terms of getting her BG in the normal range. Ann doesn't want to see you mess that up and neither do I, but you have to do what you feel comfortable with right now.

Keep in mind that she may bounce from this Green especially considering the fact that she was probably below 92 when she ate at 6:30. You can't rely on that, but you may come home in the day and find that she's back around 150 or 200.
 
Re: First low amps - NEED HELP 93, +20 min 92

So now it's about 30 minutes after your normal shot time? According to the protocol now you could skip and drain the shed or shoot and try to get as many test in as you can and perhaps give a higher carb food. I wouldn't worry as much about losing momentum as keeping Shadow safe today.
 
Re: First low amps - NEED HELP 93, +20 min 92

I definitely wouldn't shoot the .9u today. If you feel safe w/ .75u or go back to the .5u to be safe or skip. When I'm doing the in between measurements I draw the shot to the line and then count out drops to get to where I want to be. Syringes can be off too though.
 
Re: First low amps - NEED HELP 93, +20 min 92

I don'twant to drain her shed.

I was re-reading the low numbers protocol and it said that it takes 2 -3 hrs for the new insulin to start showing it's effect.

So I am going with my new usual inbetween .75 and 1 which I will correct in my ss, they are all the same as best as I can measure it in
these syringes.

I am only 2 blocks away cleaning someone's house at $20-25 /hr and I have 4 hrs to do.
The need to come check Shadow in between will motivate me to work faster today.

I'll update as I can. We'll see what happens today.
I've been afraid to stay on the higher end of the dose when I get under 120.
I hadn't read the part that the drops lessen from a low blue or green number. I was expecting a larger drop .
 
Re: First low amps - NEED HELP 93, +20 min 92

in the interest of safety, SKIP THE SHOT.

you have been shooting insulin for only 2 weeks.

you are not following any protocol recognizable by this forum/board.

if you were following the TR Protocol, as a newbie with insufficient data... your low shoot number would be 150. since you're not following any specific protocol and cannot stick around to monitor... your low shoot number should probably be around 200.

in any case, you do not have the necessary data collected to shoot low safely and then leave the house.

forget about the insulin depot. err on the side of caution. safety is first and foremost!
 
Re: First low amps - 93, +20 min 92 , 97

Didn't see the post to stay lower than .9

.9 when I say it means somewhere between .75 and 1.
the black part of the plunger is on the lesser side of 1 unit but I can still see the .5 mark in the clear view of the insulin side.

I gave her a small amt of food and her reward for getting stuck.
I'll shower and check her , run off to work, and come back check her and give her a little more food.

She expects food from me after my shower, she thinks it's lunch time always.
She can't tell time :lol:

I think we'll be okay.
I should be home by 2 pm at the latest with one or two trips inbetween to check her bg.
 
Re: First low amps - NEED HELP 93, +20 min 92

You and Ann posted at the same time, and Jill agrees with Ann. Don't give her the usual. I would skip, too. You can get back on time tonight at the normal shot time. I skipped many, many times when I could have asked the board for help shooting low because I wasn't ready to take the risk. It's okay to drain the shed in the beginning until you are ready and have learned enough about food, insulin, and hypos.
 
Re: First low amps - NEED HELP 93, +20 min 92

if you're bent on shooting... please get a +1 and +2. you'll know if you have to alter your plans by +2.

if that doesn't work with your schedule, skip the shot.

you can get back on schedule tonight.
 
Re: First low amps - NEED HELP 93, +20 min 92

Hmmm.
i thought I was following the protocol.

Must re-evaluate.
And I am going to run home and monitor. I'm flexible, I just need to get my job done with too within a certain amount of time.

I haven'tbeen getting much attention when I post numbers until today. I've asked for help.
I've been on my own pretty much and my vet is watching my numbers on my ss. We talked last friday and she thought I was doing pretty well
all things considering.

So when I am home, I'll re-read.
What would you have me do differently?
I thought her numbers were improving, I wasn't pushing hard which is why I back off when no one gives me any input after I ask for it.
After reading the protocol this morning, I interpreted it that I should hold the line a little more than I was for that tight protocol.

I won't see the next post after this one for a couple of hours from now but I will check Shadow's bg...
 
Re: First low amps - NEED HELP 93, +20 min 92

all things considered, you are doing pretty well!

in order for any of us to offer you advice based on the guidelines in the TR protocol, you must be following the TR protocol or the advice offered here may not keep shadow safe.

i understand your dh feeds "breakfast" approximately 2 hours before the shot? is that correct?
if so, there's not much on board when the insulin kicks in.

please review the TR protocol if it's a method of choice. after reviewing, ask any questions you may have.
 
Re: First low amps - NEED HELP 93, +20 min 92

Those syringes are so hard to see! You might consider an optivisor. We use the 2.5X version (I think) and a magnifying lamp. We use these and it helps with getting a more consistent dose. You are doing a great job with Shadow! This is a lot of information to absorb in a short amount of time.
Liz
 
Re: First low amps - NEED HELP 93, +20 min 92

rhiannon and shadow said:
Hmmm. i thought I was following the protocol. Must re-evaluate.
Click to expand...

Hi Rhiannon! Welcome :smile:

Looking at your dosing history on your SS, it looks like you may not have quite been able to understand the basics of the Tight Regulation protocol. We all know it can be very overwhelming and there is such a vast amount of information to absorb, so everyone understands how tricky it is at first. I'm sorry you haven't had the amount of feedback you were hoping for. It does get pretty busy in here, doesn't it! May I ask whether you've thought of setting up a profile? It would help us all look over your cat's background so we can giev you better input. Here's the link: Creating Your Profile

It's good that you have such great communication with your vet. What would be even better though is if you could try to stick to one dose for a few days. Lantus really is a terrific insulin, but dose-hopping won't let it work its magic for Shadow! We like to give a dose at least 3 days to settle in. With some dosing help - which I see you've received from Jill - would you be ok with sticking to a dose? It will help us assess how Shadow is really responding.

Once you have your profile up, we'll be able to see what Shadow eats, his FD history (which I see is short, which is good since it gives him a reat chance at having excellent progress), and a bit about you if you want to add that. When you follow the link I posted you'll see, and you can of course look at our profile and that of the others here to see examples. You've asked what we'd have you do differently, which is great. You've had some feedback about that question already from the fabulous Jill and the others here. One of the first things I'd underline, and what Jill has already made clear, is that safety comes first! That's another reason we don't like to hop from dose to dose quickly - it doesn't give us reliable data.

You're right that seeing more and more blue and green numbers shows improvement, and that's wonderful :smile: Now, if we work together and you do some more reading to get on board with the protocol and the theory behind it, I'm sure we can help you and Shadow make even better, safe and steady progress. We're here to help. Please don't be put off that sometimes it can take a little while. I can only speak for myself, but I hadn't really realized you were here in Lantus TR until today! I think if you have your profile set up, we can all be properly introduced, as it were, and things will get easier and better.

Try to revisit the stickies with the core information on the protocol and on Lantus and how it works. And come back to us with questions. I'll try to look out for your condos more when I do rounds :smile: As you learn more and know more about how things are done and how they're meant to work, I hope you'll be very happy to be part of LL-TR. We love it here :mrgreen:

I'm sorry I may have missed this if you've answered this already - what kind of syringes do you use? Ann of Ann & Maggie have a great technique on how to measure doses, and I'll re-post it here once I've found it in our old condos.

Keep reading and asking, k?
Jane
 
Re: First low amps - NEED HELP 93, +20 min 92

Hi Rhiannon!

A week ago you were in a similar position and posted on "relaxed lantus".
Here is the thread with my response: http://www.felinediabetes.com/FDMB/viewtopic.php?f=32&t=75107

It looks like Sienne suggested last night that you always get a pmps, even if you get a +11. Numbers can drop in an hour, even at the end of a cycle for some cats.

Most people test, feed, then shoot (all within a few minutes of each other). I was wondering if it might make more sense to feed and shoot earlier, rather than feed...wait 2hrs and shoot. If you gave insulin when you feed earlier, than you would also have more opportunity to monitor (yes?). You would be dealing with less variables, and unknowns as well.

I bet a lot of folks would love to hear a little bit more about Shadow. Maybe an introductory post in this forum with any pertinent health information, age, how you are feeding, dosing, goals, etc? :mrgreen:
 
Re: First low amps - NEED HELP 93, +20 min 92

I'm going to hazard a guess that your vet is applying information about shorter acting insulin (e.g., PZI) to Lantus -- hence the sliding scale for dosing. You really can't apply the same guidelines for other insulin to Lantus or Levemir. Lantus and Lev are depot-type of medications. Functionally, the depot gives Lantus its duration and allows for the cumulative action of Lantus. It also means that doses need to have time to settle. As others have noted, frequent changes in the dose results in wonky numbers.

You may want to share this article from one of the veterinary journals with your vet. It is the published version of the Tight Regulation Protocol that we use here.


Many people have difficulty with micro-dosing. Being consistent with dose and shot time are also important with Lantus. If you are having trouble seeing the calibration on the syringe, Ann's suggestion to get a visor is a great idea. Pharmacies also carry syringe barrel magnifiers although several people here have opted for the visors.
 

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Re: First low amps 93 +4 82 update

I'm postponing going to work so I can post this.
I haven't been able to figure out the profile thing, I'll concentrate on that this afternoon when I'm done with work.

Here's background info meanwhile.

Shadow - female- 12 yrs old
dx july 7 with 431 bg
Shadow has had several surgeries in her life.
She was orginally my daughters cat. When shadow was 5 mo old, my daughter was laying on the bed with her, holding her and rolled off the bed on top of poor shadow but didn't tell me right away. We were about to leave for church and something told me to check on shadow.
She was hiding in closet, shuddering, and I found out from my daughter what had happened.
We rushed 40 miles to santa fe, emergency and found out Shadow's ball joint in her hip had sheared off.
She had surgery to remove that ball and was told she would be okay as an indoor cat. It wouldn't affect her life too much.
But that event traumatized Shadow and she hates going to the vet. That kind of break is very painful until corrected. She fought like
the dickens and the vet said she was "aggressive".
She became my cat because of necessity. She doesn't run away from other children visiting our house but adult visitors very rarely see her.
They are all the vet as far as she is concerned.

Several years later, she had her teeth cleaned and some had to be pulled. She has Feline odontoclastic resorptive lesion.

and then one year I decided to take her with us to Texas for our Christmas travel. That really stressed her out and she didn't eat a lot.
I think she got constipated and a hair ball got stuck in her anus. I tried to help it out and pulled and it made a sore. That sore wasn't
healing so we wound up with a different vet who did laser surgery. Laser surgery had a better chance of healing fast.
I don't take her traveling anymore.

When she was 10, she developed a lipoma. ( very rare for cats) and the vet was going to take other teeth out that were splitting from
her Feline odontoclastic resorptive lesions.
The vet didn't get to the teeth because the lipoma was invasive and was embedded in muscle ( just outside the ribcage on her underside)
and he did his best to get all of it. He wasn't going to keep her under anesthesia longer to deal with her teeth so we would have to do that
later.
Last summer, our town caught on fire again and we were evacuated and had to live in a hotel for a weeek. She spent most of it under the sheet of the bed cuddling with my feet. The only place to hide. ( We were on fire back in the year 2000 as well )
Last March, she had her teeth done finally and lost all her fangs. She had already been eating mostly friskies canned, the gravy ones mostly,
but after the fangs were pulled she wasn't eating dry anymore and I gave her treats like greenies and friskies party favors a lot.
She had lost about 1/2 lb but I thought it was the lack of dry food. She started feeling bonier, her hips , her spine and I decided I needed
to check it out.
And then in July, I decided to take in a sample of urine to check and they took blood.... diabetes diagnosis.
Found this website the day before getting her results and started learning. I anticipated it might be this and prayed it wasn't going to be
something like cancer. Lipoma's aren't just fatty cells, they are a foundation to future cancers- ( dog experience)

I changed her food to low carb cans and no carb treats the next day.
She likes most of the new foods. I feed her several times a day.

The hiccup in our lives that I don't know how to change and don't really want to change is for 12 years she gets fed when my husband gets
up every morning.. The latest he can ever sleep is 7 am. But he just naturally gets up early.... I do not.
So on work days, he gets up at 5:45 am , takes the dogs out and feeds shadow first, before dogs. Shadow is the queen of the house.
On the days that he has gotten up and not fed Shadow, like surgery days, she knows something is wrong.
"Why aren't you feeding me?" and gets very upset and will go hide if she is ignored .

So for me to not let her get fed at 5:45 am means I would have to change our shot time and I would have to get up and do her amps at
5:30 am .... to be ahead of my husband. He goes to work at 6:30 am and that isn't going to change.
That is why I picked between 8 am and 8 30 am to do her AMPS. 2 hrs or more have passed since she ate.
And these first few weeks, I am doing random bg tests in the middle of the night to check her numbers. I also give
her small amts of food in the night.
She doesn't have any big long periods of fasting in her schedule. The longest time period without food is before her pmps.


Here is the stanza that made me decide to go ahead and shoot the .9 today. I was trying to anticipate the overlap. I guess I am seeing a different pattern in her numbers than you are. And then there is also the part about keeping her numbers in the low blues and greens so
her pancreas has time to heal as much as you can.
I have had several comments from others of Why did I drop her dose on 7/16.
I did it because the amps was under 120 and I was going to be gone the entire day and I was being ultra conservative.

So why the +10's and +11's? Well say you are on day 5 of a dose increase change and your storage shed is now not only full, it is overflowing... and your +10 or +11 was way higher than your preshot. Good way to stay out of trouble cause now you know you would have shot a still dropping number, not a good idea. so what is the plan then?.... keep testing, and not 2 hours later, every 20-30 minutes would be better, so you can catch the minute it turns and do not loose all your overlap. If you miss the rise and cat is way up there BG wise before you shoot, remember the number is just going to continue to rise in those hours before the insulin has a chance to kick in, and you have a roller coaster curve going rather than the flat curve that is ideal.


I'm not a risk taker. I want to follow protocol. I will take guidance to correct where I am doing it wrong.
I'd like to get her OTJ.
I have a new lancet that should get here today. I haven't done an hourly curve yet because I've been waiting for it to get here.
We have an accu chek aviva meter and the accuchek fastclix ( yuck ) and our new one is the softclix ( bigger gauge, better pokes)
I have a magnifying lamp ( for quilting) , I am using the half unit marking, 31 gauge, ultra comfort 5/16 inch insulin syringes.
( I heard there was some smaller one for lab rats but I haven't found them)
Shadow is eating wellness , fancy feast, merrick, and blue buffalo ... mostly chicken or turkey varieties as recommended by Dr. Pierson
All are in the 5% carb or less . Never giving anything over 8%.
she gets Purebites for treats or a small cut up piece of real shrimp as a reward for her shot.
She also gets offered Natures variety raw chicken with bonita flakes on it, will eat it some of the time but not too fond of it .... yet.

leaving now after quick bg test , be back later.
daughter is here watching to see if she starts acting different. Shadow is just sitting here napping like she usually does.
 
Re: First low amps - NEED HELP 93, +20 min 92

Rhiannon, for the record, I think your attitude is admirable and Shadow is very lucky to have you taking care of her! Welcome, again! I'm sure you'll soon see even more progress :-)

I'm sorry you've been through so much, and that Shadow has had such a rough go of it! May you both comfort and cuddle each other :-) I can see you have been trying very hard to apply the theory you've read already. Do keep reading and asking, and we'll be here to help.

Jane
 
Re: First low amps - NEED HELP 93, +20 min 92

(((((((((((rhiannon))))))))))))))
((((((((((((Shadow)))))))))))))))
Sorry to hear of the struggles you two have had, but so glad you have stuck by each other's side. Thank you for taking such good care of her!

I take it your DH is not interested in testing and/or shooting when he wakes?

I hope you continue to keep posting and asking questions. Shadow has some great numbers. I hope he is feeling well, too!!!
 
Re: First low amps - NEED HELP 93, +20 min 92

We all understand trying to maintain a schedule. Is there any possibility of your husband testing and shooting in the AM? Generally, you do not want to give a meal 2 hours before shot time. Feeding within that window can influence your pre-shot number and you may be seeing a pre-shot number that's influenced by food. In addition, to the degree that Shadow's pancreas may be working, if you feed more than 2 hours before your AMPS, Shadow's pancreas may start producing endogenous insulin which will drop her numbers. You're then giving a shot which will further drop her numbers. It's for these reasons that we suggest you test, feed, and shoot all within a few minutes. An alternative may be that your husband give Shadow a small "snack" and then you give her a larger meal at your current shot time.

What you are quoting is information on becoming "data ready." What that implies is that you need to have sufficient data amassed in order to shoot low numbers. The section that follows the data ready section is a more hands on guide to dealing with low pre-shot numbers that was replicated from the thread I linked. Because you have been managing Shadow's diabetes for roughly 2 weeks, you are not yet data ready to shoot low -- especially if you can't be around to monitor. This is why Jill, probably the most experienced person here, instructed you to not shoot below 150.

In addition, until you have compiled enough data, you don't know how well Shadow will follow the "rules" - such that they are. Every cat is different (ECID) and you need to have the information to know when Lantus onset and nadir are and what kind of duration you are getting for your cat. Having this information and following the protocol is the best way to keep Shadow safe.
 
Re: First low amps - NEED HELP 93, +20 min 92

Have you tested again? And what time did you actually shoot?

Poor Shadow, sorry she has had so many troubles. You have taken incredible care of her though.

I feel your pain on the early rising scenario. I've just had 3 weeks of getting to sleep in to my normal 7:30 since DH was getting up to watch the Tour de France and it was heaven, Even after two and a half years of this i still have trouble w/ early mornings.
  • -- Is there any chance that DH can learn to test and shoot in the morning? It can be so helpful to have a backup!
    -- Or could you get up and then go back to bed?
    -- Hmmmmmmm, what if he just gave Shadow a token amount of food at the normal time and you give her the rest when you are ready to shoot? We usually try to have the preshot test be a "fasting" test to get an accurate measurement, so no food less than 2 hours before shot as it can raise the BG numbers.

…….. :-D :-D Sienne got back first.
 
Re: First low amps - 93, +4 82 update

Shadow's shotwas at 9 am , just one hour late.

taking a quick break to get her bg and run back to work.
giving her a couple of spoonfuls snack and daughter is paying attention.
it is afternoon siesta time.

this past week I'm just getting to bed at 4 am or so.
I've been on couch so I can set alarm if needed, not wake husband, and test in middle of night.
I don't know if I can handle getting up at 5 30 as well even just to test.

I think I might try having him give her a couple of spoonfuls in the morning ( he really only gives her 1/3 of a can (small can- 3 oz)
And when possible, I am waiting the 2 1/2 hrs before testing for the amps.

Before shadow had her fangs removed in March 2012, the vet thought she looked great and was in great health....

My thought of getting diabetes now was still stress levels for Shadow.
In people, anesthesia affects you for 6 months. Your hair, your cognitive abilities, etc....
I could tell she was very distressed about not having her fangs. gotta be like a mastectomy in comparison.
She used to be a constant bather and she quit when she lost her teeth. I think the fangs helped comb , now all she has is her tongue.

We also got two new dogs in the last year. We got one last July right after the evacuation and the other dog we got in March, after her surgery.
She's always been alpha in our house and we won't let that change. But I can tell she senses that she's not necessarily top dog :-D
in capabilities any more. No teeth to drive her point home should they cross the line.
If I scold a dog, she will get in on it, and try to swat them to reinforce that I'm scolding them. She is scolding them too. :lol:
But still when you are an old lady, why do you want puppies around is her attitude.
And my reaction to her quitting the dry food altogether ( she barely ever grazed before losing her teeth) was to give her more treats.
I feel like I AM responsible for her becoming diabetic.
And perhaps she was borderline before it all, but the fact that she's doing so well so quickly makes me feel like we will reverse it
and at least get a few more years otj.
 
Re: First low amps - 93, +4 was 82

Looking good! Shadow seems to nadir around +6 so she is great. It will help if DH just gives a smaller snack about +10. Shadow may complain at first, but they do adapt to schedule changes pretty quickly. :YMHUG: :YMHUG: :YMHUG: Do not blame yourself! you are doing so much more for her than most people would!

Any cat eating dry food is at greater health risks, but we are constantly told that dry food is great for cats, even by our vets! :-x You have a very good chance of Shadow becoming diet regulated. She is responding well very early on and tight regulation gives you the best chance. It is a lot of work, but it can pay off with a better chance of OTJ (off the juice).

There are a few things you can do for us to help you as much as possible. Post every day, we can keep track of Shadow better and note progress.
-- To make it easier to find we usually use the subject format date: name AMPS added test results So today would be 7/23 Shadow AMPS~93 +1~122 +2~102 +4~82
-- Keep your subject updated w/ every test even if you don't add a new post.
-- If possible get a test earlier that the preshot. It will give you more time to think and ask for and get advice before shooting. Perhaps DH could test before giving the snack?

cat_pet_icon cat_pet_icon Good for you Shadow! keep those droolers in their place! Hey, I lost a bunch of teeth too, you can still be Alpha! -- Tess
 
Re: First low amps - 93, +4 was 82

Rhiannon

You've got great input already and there's nothing I can add but I can help you do your profile. Please PM me and we'll get it going when you have time, ok?
 
Re: First low amps - 93, +4 was 82

Hi Rhiannon,

You're doing a great job! Just ask questions when you need to so you can learn more. You've learned so much in such a small amount of time already! You and Shadow have had a rough time of it.

I wanted to make a suggestion. My cat Racci loves the Merrick BG (Before Grain) and it's only 2% carbs. If Shadow likes it, Your DH could feed as normal with the 2% and then before you leave for work you could do your regular routine and feed again before you leave. The 2% has very little effect on Racci after 2 hours. Of course ECID but you could try it and see how it works for Shadow. Racci eats 2-3 hours before a test quite a bit & always eats after her shot. She insists on having her shot before her meal. I guess she wants to clean up and relax after eating without being bothered. :lol: That would make Shadow a little safer while you are gone, having a full belly.

Good luck,
Melanie & Racci
 
Re: 7/23 Shadow amps 93, +4~82, +7~94, +10~80 ???

I wasn't expecting a drop now....

She ate dinner around 6. And she found some catnip at 7.

What does the itty bitty kitty committee think??
 
Re: 7/23 Shadow amps 93, pmps 87

I just total got my time wrong.
It's time for her shot and I don't know how much.....







Shadow's pancreas may start producing endogenous insulin which will drop her numbers]
Click to expand...


Could this be why I saw a drop at +10
 
Re: 7/23 Shadow amps 93 +11~87 HELP. What next?

Try a test in another 30 minutes. You do not want to shoot a dropping number, especially in that range with such little information you have on how Shadow responds.
 
Re: 7/23 Shadow amps 93 +11~87 HELP. What next?

Ok...I see your ss is up and running again. Shadow is "surfing". I will still opt to test in 30 min (with no food on board) and no shot yet.
 
Re: 7/23 Shadow amps 93 +11~87 HELP. What next?

Now I am seeing that my response to you is an hour after your initial 911 (which you want to put in your main heading by editing , so others will see). I am wondering if you gave insulin? If so, you should have a +1 coming up. You will need to keep testing at least every hour until you see a consistent rise or surf past nadir. If Shadow is hovering just above 50, you may want to test every 30 min. If Shadow goes BELOW 50, you will need to test every 20 minutes and feed a tsp or so of High carb food/gravy/karo after each test, until you get at least 3 consecutive rises past the +6 mark.

I hope I made sense.
 
Re: 7/23 Shadow amps 93 +11~87 HELP. What next?

had a thread going with amps and such and for some reason I can't bump it to the top to get attention.

My numbers dropped while ago. And I was supposed to give her a shot at 9.
But I don't know what to do after all we 've been thru today.....
Click to expand...
The numbers are not dropping. It's been a flat string of greens all day. You're fine to shoot as long as you have strips, high carb food, and are able to stay awake to monitor.

Also, if you shot an hour late this morning, you should be shooting 12 hours later (or you can move the shot 15 min. early tonight in order to get back on schedule).
 
Re: 7/23 Shadow amps 93 +11~87 HELP. What next?

You need to add a new post to bump the condo to the top of the board.

Please delete your other thread.
 
Re: 7/23 Shadow amps 93 +11~87 HELP. What next?

Can't I just go down to .75 ? I'm still going to check on her.

I have not given a shot yet and my original shoot time was 8 am/8 pm

It is now 9:46 pm for me
 
Re: 7/23 Shadow HELP. What next?

I did I misunderstand? I thought your shot late this morning. You do not go back to your original shot time.

Here's information about how to handle a low pre-shot number. You have three options:
  • Skip. This is what we recommend with someone who is new who gets a pre-shot test that's below 150. If you can't stay up to monitor, this is probably your best option.
  • Stall. If you've stalled for an hour and Shadow's numbers are flat, you can shoot your full dose. Stalling is like taking a dose reduction.
  • Shoot a reduced dose. You typically do not want to stall and shoot a reduced dose. Stalling acts like a reduction so the depot will take a double hit.

Those are the options. They are laid out in greater depth in the post I linked.

Personally, I'd recommend that you skip the shot.
 
Re: 7/23 Shadow amps 93 +11~87 HELP. What next?

rhiannon and shadow said:
Can't I just go down to .75 ? I'm still going to check on her.
Click to expand...

Do you have LOTS of strips (50 0r so?), high carb food/gravy/karo? Are you willing to potentially be up all night and test/feed every 20 minutes?

OR

Would you be ok with letting it go and skipping the shot? Get a mid cycle test and see what she does with multiple late, followed by a skipped shot?

If you cant answer yest to the first set of questions, than you have to go with option #2...skip the shot. Start fresh in the a.m.

Again, I always erred on the side of caution and chose to learn that way vs risking my cat's safety. Right or wrong, who knows?
 
Re: 7/23 Shadow HELP. What next?

I'm skipping.
I do not want a lesson gained by a possible hypo.
It is my intention to never have one if I can help it.

My original shot time was 8 am ( mountain time)

this morning, I had to stall which made the shot at 9 am.

guess this will work to get me back on track for 8 am.


I haven't slept more than 4 hrs a night now for two weeks.


So. What will I give in the morning at 8 am? stay the same or lower???
 
Re: 7/23 Shadow HELP. What next?

I would have skipped too, rhiannon, you're running on fumes.
I think this means you can go to 8:00, and I think you stay with the dose?
Carl
 
Re: 7/23 Shadow HELP. What next?

Because you're skipping, you can go back to your usual shot time. (Otherwise, you need to move the shot time in 15 min. increments at each shot time or once a day by 30 min.)

You can reduce the dose to 0.75u or less if you'd like. Understand that this is not because Shadow's numbers warrant the reduction. It's important to be shooting twice a day. Dropping the dose back a bit should allow you to shoot BID rather than skip a shot.

Also, you need to appreciate that there's a difference between low numbers and hypoglycemia. The protocol we use is based on published research. It is safe as long as you follow the instructions. In that protocol, a cat's numbers need to drop below 50. That does not constitute hypoglycemia.
 
Re: 7/23 Shadow HELP. What next?

Get a good night sleep! If you don't get feedback on a dose tonight, then post as early as you can in the a.m. with a test #. Your ss now will read pmbg. Your tests in the a.m. can be poste as +22 or +23, etc until you give a shot.

Sleep well!
 
Re: 7/23 Shadow HELP. What next?

Better to era on the side of caution. In the morning, start a new condo. Copy and paste this condo into the new condo and start the condo subject line with AMPS and then number, then when you get the next test number, come back, edit the subject line of your first post of the day and add in the new test number (example: AMPS ### +2 ###, +6 ###.......). Then when its time for PMPS, edit the subject line again of your first post of the condo and do the same thing but with the PMPS. Getting used to posting takes some remembering. I have been reading your posts but hard to follow. You are doing just fine as far as I can tell, but I just started on Lantus now over a month ago (Doogle was on Humilin N since Sept). I still panic a little when I get greens (especially when they get to 50) but I have learned to just breathe and eat chocolate.....lol
 
Re: 7/23 Shadow HELP. What next?

Good Shadow is going up! Rhiannon, Dont panic or get upset-OK?
Your cat is doing Great for a new kitty!! After all Shadow has gone through, And You, you are both quite amazing--I just think if you could change the morning feeding which is so early, it would help the numbers, and you would be up to date..Or could you maybe wake up earlier maybe 7-ish then you could test,feed & shoot and still have a couple of hours before work(did I get this right??)
I have been here a long time..I also use the accu check aviva & I do love it..But then I free feed Moonie which was what we did years ago here...I do manage her numbers with food though, and she is well regulated right now...In your home, with many animals, free feeding probably wouldnt work, as animals do eat each others food ohmygod_smile --
Shadow's numbers are great, for a cat to have so much blue & green so soon, is great & you are trying your best! The protocol is quite complicated now, but try to get into a pattern that works..Everyone here will try to help. So take it slow-try one thing at a time, dont get overwhelmed.. the vets usually dont understand what we do here, & yes, give her the rand article, that will help..
I am up tonite because Moonie dropped to 62 at her +3, usually my bedtime..But I am glad I saw this & hope you will feel a little better tomorrow-Hugs from us!
 
Re: 7/23 Shadow skipped shot

I'm not feeling upset. I'm still trying to figure out what's going on. If I had give a shot, say .5, wouldn't that have helped Shadow to not lose her shed as she is now going to do just that.

I think it's a good thing that we have so many greens so early in the game :mrgreen:
I want to believe its because we are very likely going to go into remission.

I need that so I won't have to choose between her and my grandmother/mother at Christmas.
I do not have anyone willing to give her shots and come over several times a day.
She is a stressmonger and would not handle being boarded or visitors touching her in her home.
When we have someone feeding the cats when we are gone, No one ever sees her, not even her tail. They just know the food disappears.
The cat box gets used.
So I would very much like her to not need insulin for the 5 days at Christmas we are supposed to travel to my 88 yr grandmother and 68 yr mother. ( I'm 48)
They don't have many Christmas's left. :cry:
I can find someone to feed her. I hope. It costs me $10 / trip over. But treatment.... she's not a cat that lets other people near her....


I think I've been managing Shadows numbers with food as well since I don't freeze it or leave it sitting out but she can have some when she
asks. She just has a servant. Almost the same thing.... (as freefeeding) I've thought her numbers were elevated all along because of the food.

My husband is going to give her less food at 5:45 am, like 1/4 of the little 3 oz can of fancy feast instead of half.
She can have more after her shot. She might allow that adjustment. :o
I have to do the math ( all without sleep ) and figure out how to make his morning feeding time with Shadow be a +10 or maybe a +9.
We usually go to be at 9pm, watch a half hr show and fall asleep.
Can you believe I was once in Pharmacy school ? I'm so fried I can't think it thru right now....

I'll try following the condo instructions tomorrow, but I hadn't figured that one out yet.... obviously...

And does anyone know why my ss link keeps weirding out? the link works for a while and quits and I have to go add it back again.
 
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