7/23 Jack: 103@AMPS, 100@+4

[Jack & Mopem'sMom]

So after I saw Jack's AM number and he ate his normal breakfast of pate and kibble mix (and after learning yesterday I have been looking at the food labels the wrong way, and the fish is actually worse for him than the chicken) I decided to go back to bed. Woke up to pretty much the same number as the AMPS four hours later. He had his normal 7units of insulin, but numbers are trending a touch higher courtesy of a stupid momma mistake with food...and we have 2 bags of each that we are going to have to eat because with Pumpkin's prescription food, the budget just won't support me ordering 4 more bags right now. Poor Jack is looking at an increase tomorrow morning unless he does some serious work on his own.

Yesterday's thread: https://www.felinediabetes.com/FDMB...-amps-94-3hrs-123-5hrs-new-kibble-mix.279788/

 

[Nimi S]

Hi Christine, replying to yesterday’s condo here. Hope you don’t mind

How can the kcals be the same but the carb counts different?

Another example is in this image. You could consume 1750 cals on 2 different days based on the type of meals you have. The same thing happens with the chicken and salmon (or the other) flavours of Dr. Elsey’s kibble ( same amount of total cals but from different amounts of macronutrients )

Oh My Word! This is making my head hurt. Thank you so much for this explanation; I've read it through a few times, and maybe I'm just thick in the head, or maybe it's the lingering pain from my dental work,

Dr. Pierson’s website (catinfo.org) has a section on calculating the %calories from proteins/fats/carbs and it comes with a warning - This may give you a headache.

but basically I should look at the carbs not calories?

Haha, no, we have to look at both
We want to see how many calories are contributed by the carbs.

When we say LC food, it means that out of the total energy (ME) that the cat gets out of the food, 0-10 % of the energy (i.e. calories) is contributed by carbs (and the rest by proteins and fats).

And what is per dry matter vs. as fed?

Pet food mostly consists of two major parts—water and dry matter While water is important, the nutrients (energy, protein, minerals, and vitamins) are found in the dry matter part of the food, so it is important to know what % of the food is associated with dry matter.

From catinfo.org: You will see conflicting carb values listed for the same food depending on how the value is calculated.
There are 3 basic methods used to calculate the value of an individual nutrient:

1. As a % of food weight (includes water) (As Fed) - shows how much fat/protein/carb is in a scoop of that food as it comes out of the bag or can. (Dr. Elsey’s chicken 2.53% carbs as per chart)
2. As a % of dry matter - shows how much fat/protein/carb is in the food after all the water is removed (Dr. Elsey’s chicken 2.77% carbs as per chart)
3. As a % of calories - shows how much of the total energy in the food comes from fat/protein/carb (Dr. Elsey’s chicken (2.4% carbs as per manual calculation)

I guess I look at 'as fed?'

Calculating the %s of calories from carbs from DMB and as-fed values gives you the same numbers. BUT if you take the DMB or as-fed numbers as %s without converting it and determining the calories from each, then you don't have a realistic number.

Once you get the DMB or the as-fed numbers, you have to plug them into a calculator (or convert manually) to get the %calories from carbs.

Hope I haven’t made your head hurt more

 

[Deb and Sylvester]

I think he's looking pretty great Christine!

Jack you need to chase your brothers and sisters around, you can burn sone kibble off baby!

Who am I kidding? Sly is one of the laziest cats I've ever known! I try to get him to play with toys and he's got 1 or 2 he likes, but nah.. He's a lounger!

 

[Jack & Mopem'sMom]

Hi Christine, replying to yesterday’s condo here. Hope you don’t mind


Another example is in this image. You could consume 1750 cals on 2 different days based on the type of meals you have. The same thing happens with the chicken and salmon (or the other) flavours of Dr. Elsey’s kibble ( same amount of total cals but from different amounts of macronutrients )

View attachment 67324


Dr. Pierson’s website (catinfo.org) has a section on calculating the %calories from proteins/fats/carbs and it comes with a warning - This may give you a headache.


Haha, no, we have to look at both
We want to see how many calories are contributed by the carbs.

When we say LC food, it means that out of the total energy (ME) that the cat gets out of the food, 0-10 % of the energy (i.e. calories) is contributed by carbs (and the rest by proteins and fats).


Pet food mostly consists of two major parts—water and dry matter While water is important, the nutrients (energy, protein, minerals, and vitamins) are found in the dry matter part of the food, so it is important to know what % of the food is associated with dry matter.

From catinfo.org: You will see conflicting carb values listed for the same food depending on how the value is calculated.
There are 3 basic methods used to calculate the value of an individual nutrient:

1. As a % of food weight (includes water) (As Fed) - shows how much fat/protein/carb is in a scoop of that food as it comes out of the bag or can. (Dr. Elsey’s chicken 2.53% carbs as per chart)
2. As a % of dry matter - shows how much fat/protein/carb is in the food after all the water is removed (Dr. Elsey’s chicken 2.77% carbs as per chart)
3. As a % of calories - shows how much of the total energy in the food comes from fat/protein/carb (Dr. Elsey’s chicken (2.4% carbs as per manual calculation)

Calculating the %s of calories from carbs from DMB and as-fed values gives you the same numbers. BUT if you take the DMB or as-fed numbers as %s without converting it and determining the calories from each, then you don't have a realistic number.

Once you get the DMB or the as-fed numbers, you have to plug them into a calculator (or convert manually) to get the %calories from carbs.

Hope I haven’t made your head hurt more

Oh LHM....my head just exploded and I don't know how to calculate the calories in the brain matter that the cats are licking up now...
Seriously, thank you very much for all of this info and the conversation in the other post. NONE of it makes sense right now. I rely on Dr P's pdf of wet cat food for Jack and try to give him the Friskies pates that range from 3%-6% carbs. He is truly a beast when it comes to eating so he generally gets the prime filets at night which is much higher at 13-15% carbs. He's 17 pounds, and could stand to lose a few so I am going to try to calculate the calories he needs and then adjust from there, keeping with the Friskies pate. The kibble is another story....I'll work on that...thank you again so much for all of this information. You truly are a treasure to folks here!

 

[Jack & Mopem'sMom]

I think he's looking pretty great Christine!

Jack you need to chase your brothers and sisters around, you can burn sone kibble off baby!

Who am I kidding? Sly is one of the laziest cats I've ever known! I try to get him to play with toys and he's got 1 or 2 he likes, but nah.. He's a lounger!

One reason I kept the kittens....they get him moving more than any toy or laser pointer. He is a cat of leisure to be sure!