7/23 Bob PMPS=66, +3=26, +3.25=71, +4=106, +5=100, +6=109

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Lkldcatlady

Lkldcatlady

Member Since 2013
Good morning LL! I woke up and thought it was Thursday. :YMSIGH: I'm so sad now....However, I'm happier that Bob is doing so great on his canned food. I tried some Nature's Variety Instinct rabbit (I think that's what it's called) and he liked it. Now, we'll see if he likes it today or tomorrow. I feel kind of bad feeding him a cute bunny, but what can I do? He's a mean critter-eating machine.

Just curious - although I'm extremely happy with 211 after the numbers we've seen in the past, would this be considered a small bounce from being so low during the day? Just trying to understand what is going on. If he's going down to 40, then obviously he's on too much insulin so I understand the reduction. But in the evenings, he is still in the blues and then yellow. Would it eventually even out? Are we looking to get all greens across the board? Just wondering.

Hope everyone has a great day! Well wishes to the OJT kittehs and prayers for healing to the ones who need it. Good luck to Tom and Nikki as they are pretty much in the same situation as Bob. Cosmically linked! ;-)

PS. does anyone have bad breath solutions? I've noticed some stinky breath since the food change. :?
 
Re: 7/23 Bob AMPS=211 Is this a bounce?

I think this may, in fact, be a small bounce. Given the 40s yesterday, it's really not a surprise. So far, it looks like Bob clears these pretty quickly.

Are you sure Bob has bad breath? Or, does his breath smell like the canned cat food he's eating? It's possible that his system has to adjust to the new diet. As long as you're not smelling an acetone (nail polish remover) type smell and you don't notice red gums or tartar on his teeth, I wouldn't worry too much about it. You can always check with your vet if it persists.
 
Re: 7/23 Bob AMPS=211 Is this a bounce?

I'm sure it's the food that is making him stinky. I always worry about their teeth - that's why I always fed dry food. I thought it was better at keeping his teeth clean than the canned. Although now I read it's only slightly better - it may be more of a genetic thing. I would like to try and care for their teeth as well as possible, but not sure how with this wet food. I tried to brush bob's teeth once and it was hysterical. He was like "what the hell are you doing?" :shock: He was very offended..
 
Re: 7/23 Bob AMPS=211 Is this a bounce?

Hi guys .. no bouncing advice from me .. Mocha had somewhat stinky breath so we took her to a dental specialist .. she ended up having 9 teeth pulled .. :o Not saying that's bob's problem but there are vets who can check over their teeth .. have a great day!
 
Re: 7/23 Bob AMPS=211 Is this a bounce?

Hi everyone! I was also one who believed dry food was better for dental health. Little did I know what kind of issues it was causing to overall health *sigh*. But I agree, in our experience stinky breath meant tooth issues. Good luck!
 
Re: 7/23 Bob AMPS=211 Is this a bounce?

Morning Dara! ~O) Not a bad AMPS for Bob this morning! Hope he slides down into the blues for you!

I'm a little nervous today, seeing all this blue. I know it's good but it makes me nuts! :lol:
 
Re: 7/23 Bob AMPS=211 85+3.75, 73+4, 62+4.25 Reduction possi

Well, went home at 10:45 today and Bob was a little higher than yesterday. It looked like the majority of his food was gone (which was different from yesterday so maybe that contributed to the higher number). I waited and checked him every 15 min to see what was going on. Looked like he was going down about 11 points every 15 minutes. I had to get back to work so I fed 1/2 can of high carb and left. I think if I had waited he probably would have continued to slide down. Is it possible for me to do a .25 reduction tonight? I know I didn't actually catch a 40, however, I feel that the food is making a huge difference and bob's insulin is probably way too much for him at this point. It's very hard driving home every day at 10:30. I imagine the partners in my firm won't understand about my sugarkitteh. I have to go to a conference in August (4 nights) and it scares the crap out of me. I would love for Bob's insulin to be as low as possible. If it doesn't help his levels, I could raise it again? Is there anything wrong with doing that?
 
Re: 7/23 Bob AMPS=211 85+3.75, 73+4, 62+4.25 Reduction possi

I'm not the expert, but because you've had a couple of quick reductions in a row, you may still be seeing a higher depot than you normally would on his current dose. Someone more qualified may back me up on that! :-D

But you hold the syringe, so if you feel more comfortable keeping him from sliding so low during the day, you can always cut back a little faster. If you do though, I'd be more aggressive about raising every 6 cycles if you aren't seeing good numbers on a particular dose. I think that's what finally helped Nikki get ahead of things.

Having to work is no fun. Can you get an auto feeder for Bob so that you know he'll have food during the day?
 
Re: 7/23 Bob AMPS=211 85+3.75, 73+4, 62+4.25 Reduction possi

I wouldn't reduce. I also don't know about feeding the HC. It's so hard to know!! What % carb is the HC you're feeding?

I might try to determine how low Bob is going at night when you can monitor.

BTW, if you really think dry helps teeth, then we should all be eating crunchy cookies. I suspect our dentists would love that idea. I believe that Dr. Lisa points out that dry being good for the teeth is a common myth. Cats in the wild do not eat kibble and their teeth are fine.
 
Re: 7/23 Bob AMPS=211 85+3.75, 73+4, 62+4.25 Reduction possi

Morning Dara......ummmm...well, afternoon for you....ummmmm morning for me
;-)
I am in the same position as you as far as I know that Tom would have most likely earned another reduction this morning if I would have waited it out. but I totally freaked out on him and broke out the syrup instead. I wish now I would have waited another 30 mins. or so, held out for that 49....but better to be safe. if they indeed deserve another decrease...they will let us know. and I think all of our back=to=back reductions aren't really the best......we don't really want to rush things and have to go right back up.

I have to laugh at the rabbit food. I have that kind of food too. but, tom doesn't like it....why? oh because tom likes the real thing!! just a few weeks ago, I caught him with a rather large baby rabbit in his mouth by its neck....walking so proud towards the bushes. I ran outside and of course Tom just kept right on walking deeper in the bushes.....so I had to force myself in and I got a hold of Tom's neck and yanked up HARD...and out plopped that darling rabbit and ran for it's life. Tom 0, Rabbbit 1. boy oh boy. so anyway...given his affinity towards rabbit...one would think he would love that rabbit food. no. I guess the real thing is just so much better. go figure.

He is bad


okay Dara.....good luck tonight.....again...we may both need it!! YIKES

isn't this fun?


~kelly
 
Re: 7/23 Bob AMPS=211 85+3.75, 73+4, 62+4.25 Reduction possi

Hi guys -

The only reason I give the high carb is because I can't take the chance he goes really low and I can't take a 2 hour lunch every day like I did yesterday. he had eaten all of his food (a little over 1/2 can of the fromm duck & chicken) and he was still going down pretty fast. I feel like 11 points every 15 minutes is fast - not really sure if it is or not. I do leave food in a timed feeder, but it was obvious to me, the low carb didn't do much to stop how fast he was going down. I feed the gravy lover's seafood which I think is about 19%. If he was going low at night, it would be different because I can always set my alarm to get up. I can't keep taking all this time off of work so that's kind of where I'm coming from. I have to be careful about my job to keep Bob in all of his uppity food ways!! :roll:

It looks to me like bob's lowest number in the evening is right after PMPS. I will try to get some later numbers, but it looks like he just keeps rising until he gets to AMPS and that's his highest of the day.

If you have to get a 40 to earn a reduction, how can I determine that if I can't do multiple tests on him during the day?
 
Re: 7/23 Bob AMPS=211 85+3.75, 73+4, 62+4.25 Reduction possi

He doesn't need to get to 40. Bob needs to drop below 50. I'm wondering if you were feeding a medium carb vs. a high carb.

The other thing to consider is that there is 20% meter variance. So, a 73 and 62 really may not be that big of a drop. There's also the possibility that the depot hasn't caught up with the dose reduction. Let's see what happens tonight.
 
Re: 7/23 Bob AMPS=211 85+3.75, 73+4, 62+4.25 Reduction possi

:YMHUG: I know just how you feel. I feel so helpless sitting at work all day with no one home. I hate it. I wish there was an easier way to do this but I keep telling myself that if I can just keep her safe and blue I might not have to do this forever. (I still sit here and freak out all day though :-| )

In other words, I'm no help! :lol:
 
Re: 7/23 Bob AMPS=211 85+3.75, 73+4, 62+4.25 Reduction possi

Dara

With newly dx kitties like Bob (and also Tom), while you want to "let" them earn their reductions, you also need to keep them safe so I understand where you are coming from. I just have this feeling, though, based on what I've seen, is that when a kitty is ready for a reduction, they'll earn it.

You do want to be careful about giving too many reductions back to back. So I'd just focus on what you CAN do. If you need to leave HC or MC out during the day to make you feel more comfortable leaving, it's ok. When you are with him, if he's coming down fast early on, feed a little MC or HC to slow him down. If he's around 50 at +4 or so, feed LC; if he's around 50 after nadir, don't feed and see what he does.
 
Re: 7/23 Bob AMPS=211 85+3.75, 73+4, 62+4.25 Reduction possi

Sienne and Gabby said:
He doesn't need to get to 40. Bob needs to drop below 50. I'm wondering if you were feeding a medium carb vs. a high carb.

The other thing to consider is that there is 20% meter variance. So, a 73 and 62 really may not be that big of a drop. There's also the possibility that the depot hasn't caught up with the dose reduction. Let's see what happens tonight.
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Thanks Sienne - well, his Fromm duck & chicken is low carb and I had merrick turkey pate which is low carb in the timed feeder for +3. The Fromm was gone, but the turkey was still there. What would be a medium carb food? arould 12%? Anyway, this has never been a problem before, obviously, because he was always so high, I never worried he would go really low. So, if he never dropped to 50 again, would we never reduce him or is there a different rule?

Nikki's Mom said:
I know just how you feel. I feel so helpless sitting at work all day with no one home. I hate it. I wish there was an easier way to do this but I keep telling myself that if I can just keep her safe and blue I might not have to do this forever. (I still sit here and freak out all day though )
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Yah - it's crazy. Everyone at work is so sick of hearing me on the phone asking cat food questions and talking about BG's. I'm such a typical cat lady. :roll:

tomtom13 said:
I am in the same position as you as far as I know that Tom would have most likely earned another reduction this morning if I would have waited it out. but I totally freaked out on him and broke out the syrup instead. I wish now I would have waited another 30 mins. or so, held out for that 49....but better to be safe. if they indeed deserve another decrease...they will let us know. and I think all of our back=to=back reductions aren't really the best......we don't really want to rush things and have to go right back up.

I have to laugh at the rabbit food. I have that kind of food too. but, tom doesn't like it....why? oh because tom likes the real thing!! just a few weeks ago, I caught him with a rather large baby rabbit in his mouth by its neck....walking so proud towards the bushes. I ran outside and of course Tom just kept right on walking deeper in the bushes.....so I had to force myself in and I got a hold of Tom's neck and yanked up HARD...and out plopped that darling rabbit and ran for it's life. Tom 0, Rabbbit 1. boy oh boy. so anyway...given his affinity towards rabbit...one would think he would love that rabbit food. no. I guess the real thing is just so much better. go figure.

He is bad
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Bad Tom!! Let that bunny go!! We had outside cats when I lived up north in high school and they used to leave me all kinds of critters - made me sad. My kitties are city kitties - lazy, like to sit in the window and hunt bugs. Every now and then I'll get a cockroach in my house :o :shock: :o (AHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH!!!) but Penelope is the Terminator. She gets them every time and leaves their mangled carcass for me to pick up!

I hear you - I want to rush it because I want to be done with it! I want to go away to my conference and not feel completely out of control (which I will anyway). Sigh. Guess we don't get to decide....
 
Re: 7/23 Bob AMPS=211 85+3.75, 73+4, 62+4.25 Reduction possi

You can try chicken gizzards, or chicken necks cut up into smaller pieces. I cut the gizzards in half and give my kitties those. Makes them chew a lot. Two of them like the gizzards raw. One likes his lightly pan seared. ohmygod_smile

I would not reduce yet either. Keep the dose at 3.75u for now. My recommendation with looking at Bob's SS.
 
Re: 7/23 Bob AMPS=211 85+3.75, 73+4, 62+4.25 Reduction possi

Marje and Gracie said:
With newly dx kitties like Bob (and also Tom), while you want to "let" them earn their reductions, you also need to keep them safe so I understand where you are coming from. I just have this feeling, though, based on what I've seen, is that when a kitty is ready for a reduction, they'll earn it.

You do want to be careful about giving too many reductions back to back. So I'd just focus on what you CAN do. If you need to leave HC or MC out during the day to make you feel more comfortable leaving, it's ok. When you are with him, if he's coming down fast early on, feed a little MC or HC to slow him down. If he's around 50 at +4 or so, feed LC; if he's around 50 after nadir, don't feed and see what he does.
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Hi Marje - when is Bob's nadir??? In looking through his history I can't tell. It is probably because he was on dry food and nibbled all day long. But in the last few days, it looks like he goes really low between +4 and +5. Is that what it looks like to you? Would that be his nadir? Or does the nadir change every day? so much info flying around my already crowded, confused brain....
 
Re: 7/23 Bob AMPS=211 85+3.75, 73+4, 62+4.25 Reduction possi

Deb & Wink said:
You can try chicken gizzards, or chicken necks cut up into smaller pieces. I cut the gizzards in half and give my kitties those. Makes them chew a lot. Two of them like the gizzards raw. One likes his lightly pan seared. ohmygod_smile

I would not reduce yet either. Keep the dose at 3.75u for now. My recommendation with looking at Bob's SS.
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That's so funny - does he like oregano and rosemary on it too? I seriously don't think I could physically go buy chicken gizzards. I used to be vegan, now I'm primarily vegetarian (but I have my moments, to be honest). It's bad enough buying Bob canned rabbit....When Bob was at the vet in April, they said he was stage 1 dental disease and he's 9, but his teeth didn't look too bad. I'm sure he'll be due for a dental cleaning soon. I worry about putting him under, but I'm just a crazy worry wart, so what's new?
 
Re: 7/23 Bob PMPS=66, +1=71 Yikes!!

well, I'm getting a little concerned. Bob's BG is moving really slow and he is eating his LC - peking ducken - it' s 9% - that's still considered LC, correct? I gave him his shot at 7:00 and it just worries me a bit. Normally he's showing in the blues by now....
 
Re: 7/23 Bob PMPS=66, +1=71 Yikes!!

That's pretty flat due to meter variance. He may just surf green tonight, which is good! I think 9% might be on the border of MC, but I'm not sure where the cutoff is exactly.
 
Re: 7/23 Bob PMPS=66, +1=71 Yikes!!

I may not need to worry - he just scarfed almost 6 ounces of peking ducken! He loves it! Not sure if you've ever seen it, but it looks really good. I almost wanted to taste it. ALMOST! ohmygod_smile
 
Re: 7/23 Bob PMPS=66, +1=71 Yikes!!

Is that Weruva? I feed the girls Fowl Ball and if it wasn't for the jelly it comes in I'd totally eat it! :lol:
 
Re: 7/23 Bob PMPS=66, +1=71 Yikes!!

yes! And the paw lickin chickin looks even better! All of weruva's food is human safe. That's nice to know! If the apocalypse comes, at least I'll have something to eat! :lol: Who makes Fowl Ball? What a strange name!
 
Re: 7/23 Bob PMPS=66, +1=71 Yikes!!

There is an alternative way to get a dose reduction. If Bob is primarily in green numbers for a week, you can reduce the dose.

LC is below 10% and HC is above 15% so MC is in between. However, a lot depends on how carb sensitive your cat is. Cat's like Jill's Alex can get a 30 point rise from a piece of freeze dried chicken! As Marje was alluding to, what % carb you feed may depend on where in the cycle you are and/or how fast numbers are dropping.
 
Re: 7/23 Bob PMPS=66, +1=71 Yikes!!

Well, this is the first time it looks like green all day. At what number do you not give insulin?
 
Re: 7/23 Bob PMPS=66, +1=71, +2=87

Great numbers Bob!! Surf safely, though!!

Thanks so much for visiting Gobbles' condo yesterday :-D
 
Re: 7/23 Bob PMPS=66, +3=26

ok, I'm quite freaked out right about now. Bob needs a reduction tomorrow and I need to know how much I can reduce him. .25 is NOT going to cut it. Need some advice here for tomorrow am.....
 
Re: 7/23 Bob PMPS=66, +3=26

no way man! I let him lick the gravy out of the can while I gave him .1 ml of maple syrup while I crapped my pants. Sorry.....I was a little hysterical. He ate an entire 6 ounces of food at dinner. Of course it was the paw lickin chicken which has practically no carbs....

I can't do this - I think the food is making a huge difference and I cannot give him this much insulin tomorrow. of course I don't want to derail his success, so I need to see what might be a good reduction and still keep him in the green/blue range. Preferrably high greens.... Also, I don't know what the "do not shoot" number is. Right now, I'm thinking 66 is a good "do not shoot" number. wth!!!! He is normally going up at this time of night. I almost killed my cat. He's just sitting there looking at me so I don't think he was having any symptoms....
 
Re: 7/23 Bob PMPS=66, +3=26

okay Dara

I know you want to move things along .....but REALLY!!???
:shock:
I know you want to go away to your conference with an OTJ cat stress-free....but REALLY?

:roll: oh my. just follow what they have told you and IT WILL WORK. don't stress. he will be fine.

congrats bob....your momma knew you deserved a decrease!! I am curious what they will decide.

hang in there...you are doing great!!

~Kelly

god, I better test Tom right now! since they are linked! hahahha
 
Re: 7/23 Bob PMPS=66, +3=26

Dara

I don't hear you breathing ;-)

Ok...you did not almost kill your cat. Clinical hypos on lantus are rare and because you are testing, you caught the low number, you fed it, he's going to come up. Yes..we take these numbers seriously but we're responding. It's fine what you gave him. I was just going a tad light because it is early and we need to be sure we get him up but don't fill him up.

Let's see how it goes tonight before deciding on the reduction amount. What we might want to do is skip a shot in the morning and drain the depot a bit. But don't worry about that right this minute. I want to also go back through several days of condos and reread and refresh my memory on when you are leaving, how long you'll be gone, etc. So for right now....let's just focus on getting him up :-D :-D :-D

More breathing....so good for the stress :-D And please feel free to eat some of the chocolate in your hypo kit....you do have some, right?
 
Re: 7/23 Bob PMPS=66, +3=26, +3.25=71

ok. Maybe the 26 was not accurate or the syrup acted really fast. He's at 71 so I'm thinking I should have tested twice. Would syrup make it o up 50 points in 15 minutes??

Sorry for the scare! I also didn't give .1 ml - I gave maybe 1/4-1/2 of that - so basically a few drops. He licked the gravy of the top of the food - I didn't give it all to him (so I'm making progress), and I did put out the MC food and he was just munching on it. Sorry, it scared me really bad. I still want to reduce his insulin. Marje - what do you think?
 
Re: 7/23 Bob PMPS=66, +3=26

Dara

YOU DID NOT ALMOST KILL YOUR CAT!!

you are curing your cat...healing your cat....helping your cat.......loving your cat to death....err....I mean to pieces.... :smile:

this is tough...tough...tough....this tight protocol.....but it is for the best.

it will all be worth it some day.....and at your rate: in 2 weeks!!

NOW GO CHANGE YOUR PANTS!
;-)

that syrup will work QUICK....relax

~kelly
 
Re: 7/23 Bob PMPS=66, +3=26, +3.25=71

I'm good now. Hoping that was just a fluke, but it is crazy how he's in the greens tonight - first time.

Thanks Alexis and Kelly! You always make me laugh - even while I'm cleaning the poo out of my pants. ohmygod_smile

I've just never seen a number that low. The 40 used to scare me. That petrified me. How is Tom and Nikki doing this evening? Poor Bob - he's like "why????? why do I have syrup all over my face????" poor thing - I couldn't get it in his mouth fast enough. I don't do well in a crisis - don't ever have a heart attack in front of me.

Marje - if you don't mind, I will wait for you to see what is going on and give me some great advice. You are very kind...
 
Re: 7/23 Bob PMPS=66, +3=26, +3.25=71

Yes....it's always smart to take a breath and recheck but the first time you get that kind of number, it's a natural reaction to get food into them. And yes, HC and syrup can bring them up fast but it's going to wear off.

Regardless of whether that was an accurate test or not, we are going to assume it was, ok? So yes. We need to do a reduction but I want to see how he does. If you have a chance to read back a couple of posts in this condo to my last one, that would be great.

How about a test at +4? See you then.
 
Re: 7/23 Bob PMPS=66, +3=26, +3.25=71

I'm picturing Bob wandering around on a sugar high and Hector looking surprised. :lol: :lol:

I think Nikki's good. Going to get up in 2 hours and get a +6 tonight.

I would test Bob again in 30 (or sooner if Marje recommends). Just in case the syrup did prop him up and it wears off! :-D
 
Re: 7/23 Bob PMPS=66, +3=26, +3.25=71

Reminds me of my first really low numbers with Wink. Honey all over his fur! He licked most of it up but I had to take a damp washcloth to a few spots.
 
Re: 7/23 Bob PMPS=66, +3=26, +3.25=71

no way man! I let him lick the gravy out of the can while I gave him .1 ml of maple syrup while I crapped my pants.... bob's whole head smells like pancakes.....I think I spilled it on him...
Click to expand...

Without a doubt, the funniest thing I've read today :lol:
 
Re: 7/23 Bob PMPS=66, +3=26, +3.25=71

Carl & Bob said:
no way man! I let him lick the gravy out of the can while I gave him .1 ml of maple syrup while I crapped my pants.... bob's whole head smells like pancakes.....I think I spilled it on him...
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Without a doubt, the funniest thing I've read today :lol:
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Hi Carl - pretty sure that's how I deal with stress!! Act like and idiot! :-D

Deb & Wink said:
Reminds me of my first really low numbers with Wink. Honey all over his fur! He licked most of it up but I had to take a damp washcloth to a few spots.
Click to expand...

Poor Wink - I'm going to give Bob a few minutes to relax after I scared him. Then he will probably get the warm washcloth too!

Marje and Gracie said:
Yes....it's always smart to take a breath and recheck but the first time you get that kind of number, it's a natural reaction to get food into them. And yes, HC and syrup can bring them up fast but it's going to wear off.

Regardless of whether that was an accurate test or not, we are going to assume it was, ok? So yes. We need to do a reduction but I want to see how he does. If you have a chance to read back a couple of posts in this condo to my last one, that would be great.

How about a test at +4? See you then.
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Thanks Marje - I def need to add chocolate to the hypo kit. Or better yet, one of those little airplane bottles of vodka! Read your last post and I will get a +4 in 15 min.

Nikki's Mom said:
I'm picturing Bob wandering around on a sugar high and Hector looking surprised.

I think Nikki's good. Going to get up in 2 hours and get a +6 tonight.

I would test Bob again in 30 (or sooner if Marje recommends). Just in case the syrup did prop him up and it wears off!
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Hector was surprised as usual. Although he was distracted by grandma's chicken soup. I think I figured it is a MC. Needless to say they like it!
 
Re: 7/23 Bob PMPS=66, +3=26, +3.25=71, +4=106

Wowza....that was some HC! Lets give him an hour and get a +5. Wish we could let him go longer but it's coming up to nadir and the HC will wear off.

I'm grabbing dinner but will be back for the +5 and questions :-D if you have questions now, just post...I'll get a buzz letting me know.
 
Re: 7/23 Bob PMPS=66, +3=26, +3.25=71, +4=106

It's been an hour since you dipped him in sugar. ;-) So the 106 seems logical to me. Like Marje said, let him go until +5 (without more food I think), and see if the rise holds. This could just be the reaction from the gravy and syrup. But if that 26 was "real" (and I agree 100% you have to assume a number that low is real and react accordingly), then this could also be the start of the mother-of-all-bounces. :smile: This is just the sort of reaction that I would expect to see if a liver really does "panic" in reaction to a very low number.
 
Re: 7/23 Bob PMPS=66, +3=26, +3.25=71, +4=106, +5=100

I hope not! He's been handling the 40's really well - bounces in the yellow and recovering quickly. He typically starts going up at this time anyway. Only difference tonight was the PMPS was really low. He even ate all of his paw lickin chickin (I keep saying it because I just really like saying it).
 
Re: 7/23 Bob PMPS=66, +3=26, +3.25=71, +4=106, +5=100

Looks like the old crystal ball might be working tonight....possibly a surf followed by numbers coming back down.

I think Id get a +6 ok?

Here is Bobs 7/22 Condo.

I'm reading through condos. I have to be in bed earlier tonight since my work day is tomorrow but I will post some ideas for the dose before I do. Promise :-D :-D
 
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