? 7/21 Pearl AMPS 104, +9.75 98 Question about Inverted cycles

Margaret and Pearl (GA)

Margaret and Pearl (GA)

Member Since 2020
Good afternoon all!

I have a question about inverted cycles.

Pearl was starting to experience inverted cycles on 0.25U, starting at about Cycle 10 in the PM cycle (unusual for her, she is typically in normal numbers and then I reduce her after 14 cycles). After cycle 14 in normal numbers, I dropped her to 0.125U yesterday (0.125U = 2 drops with my calipers/calculations).

It seems to me her inverted cycles are getting more dramatic. By that I mean, she is green at PS and then goes up into blue for most of the cycle when the insulin should be at its strongest, then drops back down to green for the next PS.

So, question: if the inverted cycles continue, what do I do? Intuitively, it doesn't seem reasonable to wait the entire 14 cycles before dropping her again (or is that the thing to do??). And we only have the drop dose left to go. So...if the inverted cycles keep on, do I go immediately down to a drop, or just move to try her OTJ?

This is an odd one for me. Of course, I would check back in before making a decision, but am wondering what the protocol is for this situation. I've done some searching in the forum, but still don't quite know what to think.

7/19 post: https://felinediabetes.com/FDMB/threads/7-19-pearl-pmps-115-3-25-92-pred-day-reduce-tomorrow.250050/

Thank you!!
 
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Tina Marie and Jan said:
I see a beautiful flat cat! I do not understand inverted cycles meaning too much insulin (not logical to me), but will look and learn;)
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THank you! What is odd to me is that when the insulin is weakest she is green. When it is strongest she is increasingly more blue. Maybe it doesn't matter since it's low blue, I have no idea. I am just getting nervous if she is doing the inverted thing, I don't want to wreck her streak and chance at continuing to reduce with too much insulin at this point.

I think in general Wendy has said that inverted cycles can mean too much insulin or they can mean too little insulin depending on the situation and on the cat. I read that in some other posts (did a search).
 
Margaret (and Pearl) said:
I think in general Wendy has said that inverted cycles can mean too much insulin or they can mean too little insulin depending on the situation and on the cat. I read that in some other posts (did a search).
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Yes, and sometimes too when you see inverted curves on other spreadsheets, it might just be a late nadir, or bounce breaking, and in those cases, looking at previous cycles helps to figure out what might be happening. I would say in Pearl's case she is tightly regulated, so she doesn't really have much if any "wave action" that you normally would see with kitties who aren't.

I'm happy to see in your notes that she is being playful :joyful:
 
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I think those numbers look great! Especially given 20% meter variance for any given read, I'd say she's pretty even.
 
I searched through old posts, and found a lot of mention of inverted curves. However, I never found a spreadsheet with examples showing, then proving, the cat needed a lower dose.
Did you find anything Margaret? I think my head block comes from me taking insulin for umpteen plus years.
Maybe this is a cat thing? Or a type 2 characteristic?
Too much insulin = hypoglycemia, so how in the world do you not go low with too much insulin? Really want to understand.
 
Tina Marie and Jan said:
Too much insulin = hypoglycemia, so how in the world do you not go low with too much insulin?
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Not necessarily :)

Have a look at Jill & Alex's SS - 2006 when she was starting to see some inverted curves on 0.1u, which indicated to Jill that it was too much insulin. And although not dropping into a "too low" range, with some lower preshots, she started withholding insulin/skipping. A few days later, Jill decided to try OTJ and it held.

Also Gussie's SS 2016.
 
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@Christie & Maverick
Thank you so much for your time and help. I am finally starting to understand and see the inverted cycle - it isn't as easy to recognize as I thought it would be (I focus on numbers more than colors/ 95=100 to me; not blue, which could be 100 or 199, and green which could be 50 or 100). Takes me a bit.

It was great reviewing Jill's SS, while remembering her fondly. And I've heard about Gussie, another famous FDMB kitty!
This is still something that hasn't registered completely - the mechanism of it (my fault), but looking helps a LOT to understand what is being discussed.
I won't say I'm slow, because that might already be obvious:):smuggrin:
 
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